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Post by DubipR on Apr 11, 2022 17:56:11 GMT -5
Tim Drake.
Brilliantly introduced and so well written, especially in the 90s/early 00s when the counter-Bat titles were so good by Dixon. The brotherhood of Dick and Tim is so well written. It was great up until Identity Crisis and then butchering him into making him Red Robin.
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Post by Hoosier X on Apr 11, 2022 17:57:10 GMT -5
Last, Jason Todd.
If we’re talking about pre-Crisis Jason Todd, he wins. Because I love 1980s Batman, from the era when the Squid was running the Gotham underworld, and Dr Death returned, and Professor Hugo Strange was driving Bruce Wayne mad ... through the Killer Croc storyline and the death of the Flying Todds (eaten by alligators!) ... and Vicki Vale and Catwoman and Julia Pennyworth ... and the long custody battle with Nocturnal! ... and Bullock and the Film Freak and the Mad Hatter and Mr Freeze and Black Mask ... and Doug Moench and Don Newton and Gene Colan and Pat Broderick.
And then ... Nocturna floated away in her magic balloon and took the Bronze Age with her.
I wish she had taken Jason with her too.
So they turned Jason into a street kid.
And somehow, it was decided that it was better that Two-Face killed Jason’s father. For some reason.
And Jason became Robin again. But not a nice Robin. A murder-y Robin.
And the Joker beat him to death with a crowbar because everyone called a phone number.
And then they brought him back to life as the Red Hood.
I’ve resigned myself to seeing Jason Todd as the Red Hood in Batman comics from time to time. I try to forget the past and accept the character for who he is. So I can’t say I’ve never read a Red Hood story I didn’t like. But still ... I’d rather not see him at all.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 11, 2022 18:07:56 GMT -5
And Jason became Robin again. But not a nice Robin. A murder-y Robin. And the Joker beat him to death with a crowbar because everyone called a phone number. And then they brought him back to life as the Red Hood. I want my money back. Adjusted for inflation.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2022 18:56:48 GMT -5
Last, Jason Todd. If we’re talking about pre-Crisis Jason Todd, he wins. Because I love 1980s Batman, from the era when the Squid was running the Gotham underworld, and Dr Death returned, and Professor Hugo Strange was driving Bruce Wayne mad ... through the Killer Croc storyline and the death of the Flying Todds (eaten by alligators!) ... and Vicki Vale and Catwoman and Julia Pennyworth ... and the long custody battle with Nocturnal! ... and Bullock and the Film Freak and the Mad Hatter and Mr Freeze and Black Mask ... and Doug Moench and Don Newton and Gene Colan and Pat Broderick. And then ... Nocturna floated away in her magic balloon and took the Bronze Age with her. I wish she had taken Jason with her too. So they turned Jason into a street kid. And somehow, it was decided that it was better that Two-Face killed Jason’s father. For some reason. And Jason became Robin again. But not a nice Robin. A murder-y Robin. And the Joker beat him to death with a crowbar because everyone called a phone number. And then they brought him back to life as the Red Hood. I’ve resigned myself to seeing Jason Todd as the Red Hood in Batman comics from time to time. I try to forget the past and accept the character for who he is. So I can’t say I’ve never read a Red Hood story I didn’t like. But still ... I’d rather not see him at all. I can so relate to all of this. I want to go on record that the scene below was my vote, and I still cannot believe it was legitimate the fans voted for his death:
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Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 11, 2022 19:00:37 GMT -5
I can't believe I'm the first one to vote for Damian?!? I can't stand Tim Drake.. he's SO generic. Maybe if I read more of him I'd like him, but the bits I have, he's just boring. Jason Todd is ok, but he's better as an anti-hero than he ever was as Robin.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Apr 11, 2022 20:14:53 GMT -5
For me Damien was the Rick Jones of DC. An insufferable character that was far worse than Jason Todd. That said bringing him back as Red Hood he was an insufferable little entitled [expletive deleted]. So i guess I agree with Slam though I never phoned in a vote.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 11, 2022 20:21:50 GMT -5
Last, Jason Todd. If we’re talking about pre-Crisis Jason Todd, he wins. Because I love 1980s Batman, from the era when the Squid was running the Gotham underworld, and Dr Death returned, and Professor Hugo Strange was driving Bruce Wayne mad ... through the Killer Croc storyline and the death of the Flying Todds (eaten by alligators!) ... and Vicki Vale and Catwoman and Julia Pennyworth ... and the long custody battle with Nocturnal! ... and Bullock and the Film Freak and the Mad Hatter and Mr Freeze and Black Mask ... and Doug Moench and Don Newton and Gene Colan and Pat Broderick. And then ... Nocturna floated away in her magic balloon and took the Bronze Age with her. I wish she had taken Jason with her too. So they turned Jason into a street kid. And somehow, it was decided that it was better that Two-Face killed Jason’s father. For some reason. And Jason became Robin again. But not a nice Robin. A murder-y Robin. And the Joker beat him to death with a crowbar because everyone called a phone number. And then they brought him back to life as the Red Hood. I’ve resigned myself to seeing Jason Todd as the Red Hood in Batman comics from time to time. I try to forget the past and accept the character for who he is. So I can’t say I’ve never read a Red Hood story I didn’t like. But still ... I’d rather not see him at all. I can so relate to all of this. I want to go on record that the scene below was my vote, and I still cannot believe it was legitimate the fans voted for his death: I certainly voted to kill him. An uninteresting character turned into an actively unlikely character. Nuke him from space.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 11, 2022 20:31:24 GMT -5
Jason Todd is my favorite Robin, even more than Dick. Both versions really.
The Pre-Crisis Jason had a very realistic and meaningful relationship with Bruce that wasn't possible in the less introspective days when Dick was by his side. Contrary to what most think, Post-Crisis Jason was no different until Jim Starlin came around. That Jason started in a rough place in order to make it logical for Batman to take on an adolescent sidekick (he is in more danger in Crime Alley than by Batman's side), but still had that bond by the end of Max Collins' run. And Mike w. Barr took that dynamic to a beautiful place, depicting a happy go-lucky dynamic duo with a lot of rage at their cores, working to suppress the inner darkness with playful banter and a sincere bond. Beautiful stuff.
And while Starlin absolutely had an agenda when he swooped in and turned Jason into a bad egg, I even liked that character. He crossed the line for the right reasons, and died saving a mother who didn't deserve him. He was troubled, but he was unquestionably a hero. I respected that.
In the end, Jason was the first Robin to really benefit from Bronze-Age era characterization/introspection. Dick got to do it as a near-adult with the Titans, but never by Batman's side. And Jason turning out troubled and complicated only made him more compelling for me. In the age of the anti-hero, Jason truly wasn't that -- he was a mixed up kid trying to do right.
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Post by chadwilliam on Apr 11, 2022 20:39:33 GMT -5
Kind of odd that Jason Todd was considered unlikable in the late 80's whereas Damien seems to be well regarded. From what little I've read of Damien, he doesn't seem all that different - murderous kid with a nasty attitude. Of course, Post-Crisis Jason Todd was only written as a brat by Jim Starlin who wanted to manipulate fans into voting for him to die. Starlin admitted afterwards that he wanted to get rid of Robin from the start. Mike Barr, Alan Grant, and even Max Allan Collins wrote him as a decent kid during their tenures (admittedly, Collins didn't start off that way).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2022 21:28:06 GMT -5
Jason Todd was awesome. If you weren't there, you've got to remember the rift between Bruce and Dick had been going on forever. I hated seeing them growing apart even though I could respect it resembled a very "real world" rift that could happen between father and son as Dick became a man and wanted to make his own decisions. But it hadn't been the "dynamic duo" in the classic sense for a long time. And while it opened the door for Dick's great role in the New Teen Titans and Nightwing kind of felt right, I still remember buying this new off the newsstand and the great vibes it gave me: Yet again...comics are supposed to be fun!! This was fun. And a few years later, my favorite Jason moment ever: These were good times...
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Post by EdoBosnar on Apr 12, 2022 5:13:38 GMT -5
Yet again...comics are supposed to be fun!! This was fun. (...) These were good times... Yeah, I really loved the Barr/Davis run on Detective - such fun and beautifully drawn comics. If Jason's personality from these stories (and pre-Crisis in general) had been maintained, he would have been a perfectly suitable replacement Robin going forward. Personally, though, I always thought Gerry Conway dropped the ball when coming up with his name: since Jason rhymes with Grayson, he should have given him a surname that rhymes with 'Dick' (Crick? Frick? Slick? Thicke?) or maybe just Richards.
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 13, 2022 21:12:30 GMT -5
Other: Robin Williams
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