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Post by jason on Mar 19, 2022 21:38:13 GMT -5
Cant forget the recycling of Angel and Vision's names as well.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,051
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Post by Confessor on Mar 19, 2022 23:03:44 GMT -5
In 1963, Marvel's The Avengers debut less than two years after the hit British television series, The Avengers, hit the airwaves. Avengers #1 appeared two years after the show began running in the UK, but a good 18 months or more before it aired in the U.S. So, it's possible -- in fact, quite likely I would think -- that Stan Lee was unaware of the British TV show when he named Marvel's Avengers.
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Post by tarkintino on Mar 20, 2022 0:30:22 GMT -5
When did Charles Bronson start wearing a moustache? Or I suppose the question should be, when did become part of his trademark look? I ask because I thought that happened a bit later than some of these comics meant to be based on him. Great point. Plus Bronson did not emerge as a real screen presence until a few years after Sgt. Fury #1, so maybe Izzy wasn’t based on him. Still, Bronson was not only in The Magnificent Seven, but a Sturges film from the previous year-- Never So Few (with Sinatra and McQueen). Bronson was also very visible on many popular TV series pre-dating Sgt. Fury (e.g., Alfred Hitchcock Presents, The Twilight Zone, The Untouchables, Studio One, Have Gun, Will Travel, etc.), so its possible he could have been the model for the character.
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Post by Prince Hal on Mar 20, 2022 2:41:23 GMT -5
Great point. Plus Bronson did not emerge as a real screen presence until a few years after Sgt. Fury #1, so maybe Izzy wasn’t based on him. Still, Bronson was not only in The Magnificent Seven, but a Sturges film from the previous year-- Never So Few (with Sinatra and McQueen). Bronson was also very visible on many popular TV series pre-dating Sgt. Fury (e.g., Alfred Hitchcock Presents, The Twilight Zone, The Untouchables, Studio One, Have Gun, Will Travel, etc.), so its possible he could have been the model for the character. Oh, yes, that’s true, and he could certainly have been the model for Izzy, but the mustache is such an identifier of Izzy and Bronson didn’t sport one until quite a while after “Magnificent Seven” and “Dirty Dozen,” which came out a year before Hogun’s debut. It always made sense to me that Hogun’s appearance was based on Bronson, but I never bothered to check when he started wearing the mustache, and again, that mustache is a key part of Hogun’s look. I wonder if Izzy was modeled on the great movie and stage actor Sam Levene, whose picture I can’t post right now, but who bears a strong resemblance to Izzy and is/was Jewish to boot. He was the original Nathan Detroit in the smash B’way hit, “Guys and Dolls,” so he would have been well known, one presumes to Stan and Jack.
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Post by Cei-U! on Mar 20, 2022 4:36:22 GMT -5
I'd be willing to bet that, like a lot of Kirby's characters, Izzy Cohen was based on somebody Jack knew while growing up on the Lower East Side rather than an actor or other celebrity.
Cei-U! I summon the common sense!
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 20, 2022 11:38:00 GMT -5
In 1963, Marvel's The Avengers debut less than two years after the hit British television series, The Avengers, hit the airwaves. Avengers #1 appeared two years after the show began running in the UK, but a good 18 months or more before it aired in the U.S. So, it's possible -- in fact, quite likely I would think -- that Stan Lee was unaware of the British TV show when he named Marvel's Avengers. He would have been more familiar with the Street & Smith pulp hero, the Avenger (Richard Benson), much as he was The Spider. Plus, "Avenger" had appeared in several movie and movie serial titles. Probably just liked the sound of it.
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Post by berkley on Mar 20, 2022 17:35:35 GMT -5
When did Charles Bronson start wearing a moustache? Or I suppose the question should be, when did become part of his trademark look? I ask because I thought that happened a bit later than some of these comics meant to be based on him. Great point. Plus Bronson did not emerge as a real screen presence until a few years after Sgt. Fury #1, so maybe Izzy wasn’t based on him. Which makes me wonder if Jack Palance might have been an inspiration for Hogun. He wore a mustache and long hair in “Sign of the Pagan” (1954) when he played Attila. That looks pretty convincing to me. And now I want to see that movie!
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Post by Farrar on Mar 20, 2022 18:36:02 GMT -5
Avengers #1 appeared two years after the show began running in the UK, but a good 18 months or more before it aired in the U.S. So, it's possible -- in fact, quite likely I would think -- that Stan Lee was unaware of the British TV show when he named Marvel's Avengers. I agree with you, Confessor ; but Stan's wife was from the UK, so who knows--maybe she was corresponding with friends back home who'd told her of the show. She's been (famously) credited with inspiring Stan before Somewhat related: It's been noted before that in the early '70s Marvel had some team comics that had names of '60s US shows**: The Defenders, the Champions, the Invaders. All had been TV shows (of varying popularity) in the US in the 1960s. Those succinct, punchy names do seem to be naturals for conveying action, groups, teams, etc. **The Defenders and Invaders TV shows also had their own 1960s comic books, from Dell and Gold Key respectively.
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Mar 20, 2022 19:20:03 GMT -5
Back as a comic crazed kid in the 80s I remember being super excited one day when I noticed "The Avengers" listed in the TV Guide. Not knowing much beyond my 8-9 year old mid-80s Canadian world, I just assumed it was a show about the superheroes and dutifully waited until the scheduled time. I was so disappointed when a black and white British show from the 60s having nothing to do with the Marvel comic book appeared on the screen lol. (although even at that young age I think I was intrigued by Diana Rigg)
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Post by chadwilliam on Mar 20, 2022 22:42:34 GMT -5
"Hulk," too was recycled from the monster comics. The original Hulk was cuddly alien overlord Xemnu, later subtitled the Titan, and a recurring foe of the Defenders, among others. I know that Marvel's monster comics from the 50's/early 60's used a lot of names which would be re-used - "The Spider Man!", "Thorr!", "Magneto!" and so forth - but I wonder if Lee ever held off on using what he considered a really good name for when what he thought a really good idea might come around. For instance, he's got Oog, Rro, The Glob, etc. but no Hulk in those one and done Tales of Suspense/Mystery/etc. stories. Did he just not get around to it, was "Hulk" a name he hadn't considered at that time, or was he saving it? Anyhoo, another thought about Marvel and names - those adjectives. I guess we take them for granted now - "Amazing", "Incredible", "Invincible" - but it kind of strikes me as something which Lee stumbled upon by accident. I mean, Spider-Man's name isn't "The Amazing Spider-Man", Hulk isn't "The Incredible Hulk", but the title which started the Marvel Age is a literal translation of the team featured there-in - "The Fantastic Four". I mean, they're not just "The Four" with "Fantastic" slapped in front to grab attention a la the other adjectives. The Fantastic Four needs that "Fantastic" there to identify them whereas most other characters don't and yet once in place, Lee often used those adjectives as a sort of good luck charm even if they weren't necessary.
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Post by MWGallaher on Mar 21, 2022 7:54:58 GMT -5
Page 2 and nobody's mentioned Ghost Rider?!
Marvel not only appropriated the trademark name from its previous publisher, but the visual representation and central gimmick: a Western hero pretending to be a supernatural being. They even used the artist most associated with the original, Dick Ayers (which may be why Marvel's version hewed so closely, with Ayers plotting and drawing a favorite of his previous comics features.
Oops, I overlooked that on page 1!
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Post by MWGallaher on Mar 21, 2022 8:03:11 GMT -5
Oh, and Quality had used "Iron Man" before, although I wouldn't presume that its reuse was anything more than a coincidence: Hugh Hazzard's mechanical man was only billed as the "Iron Man" for the first few installments, though, later promoted as "Bozo the Robot". And you thought "Iron Man" was a bad name!
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Post by Cei-U! on Mar 21, 2022 9:04:10 GMT -5
Back as a comic crazed kid in the 80s I remember being super excited one day when I noticed "The Avengers" listed in the TV Guide. Not knowing much beyond my 8-9 year old mid-80s Canadian world, I just assumed it was a show about the superheroes and dutifully waited until the scheduled time. I was so disappointed when a black and white British show from the 60s having nothing to do with the Marvel comic book appeared on the screen lol. (although even at that young age I think I was intrigued by Diana Rigg) The same thing happened to me when ABC first started running the TV show in '65. Where were Cap, Thor, and Iron Man? Fortunately, I learned to dig Steed and Peel (not that I had much choice, since my mom loved the show and she ruled the TV).
Cei-U! I summon the bowler hat and bumbershoot!
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Post by MDG on Mar 21, 2022 9:21:45 GMT -5
Back as a comic crazed kid in the 80s I remember being super excited one day when I noticed "The Avengers" listed in the TV Guide. Not knowing much beyond my 8-9 year old mid-80s Canadian world, I just assumed it was a show about the superheroes and dutifully waited until the scheduled time. I was so disappointed when a black and white British show from the 60s having nothing to do with the Marvel comic book appeared on the screen lol. (although even at that young age I think I was intrigued by Diana Rigg) The same thing happened to me when ABC first started running the TV show in '65. Where were Cap, Thor, and Iron Man? Fortunately, I learned to dig Steed and Peel (not that I had much choice, since my mom loved the show and she ruled the TV).
Cei-U! I summon the bowler hat and bumbershoot!
And of course the Marvel book is why Gold Key had to highlight a different name, even though the indicia title was "The Avengers"
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Post by Farrar on Mar 21, 2022 17:41:04 GMT -5
Arnold Drake owes Bill Finger a debt of thanks for this 1968 character's name Detective Comics #40 (1940) I kid, I kid! They both were probably just inspired by the famous novel***...or the cookie! **Matt Baker did a great Lorna Doone adaptation for the Classic Comics series.
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