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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2022 22:27:43 GMT -5
EVERYTHING YOU KNOW IS WRONG !!!
I chose what to me is absolutely the biggest shake up - Swamp Thing. and then I also chose Miscellaneous, for this move. . Wonder Woman #219 - making Wonder Woman an executioner (not a murderer exactly, as she was forced to kill Max when he answered honestly (he was wrapped in the lasso) that the only way to stop him from controlling Superman was to kill him. it was a shocking move for the character, and really did have repercussions for quite a while after.
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Post by Duragizer on Jan 17, 2022 0:36:05 GMT -5
Spidey as a clone. Purely subjective opinion, 'cause I was a '90s kid and this was the first shake-up in comics I got to experience as it was happening beginning-to-end.
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Post by badwolf on Jan 18, 2022 14:11:34 GMT -5
A couple questions:
1. Was it ever clarified whether Diana killed Max of her own will, or was he using his "nudge" power?
2. Prior to however many reboots there have been since then, did Ralph Dibny ever recover mentally from the events of Identity Crisis?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2022 15:37:43 GMT -5
^ I think she owned it.
and that was that.
(tho when in the lasso, would he have been able to use his push power anyways?)
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Post by Marv-El on Jan 18, 2022 17:06:22 GMT -5
As for impacting me personally as a reader, my two choices are:
Born Again - seeing Kingpin systemically destroy Matt Murdock's life and Matt's struggle back, the conflict between these two became instantly personal, more so perhaps than between any adversaries in Marvel (excepting perhaps Parker and the Osborns)
Iron Man and alcoholism - I feel like though Michlenie & Layton introduced the conflict for Stark, they only addressed in broad terms. When O'Neill brought it back and doubled down on it by having Stark pay personal and professional consequences, it highlighted the effects and damages wrought by this disease more so. I am so glad that O'Neill played out Stark's long road of recovery instead of glossing over to a more quicker one. Plus, though it's often underrated, launching Rhodey onto his own path towards being a hero was a major turning point as well (and equally well done by O'Neill)
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 18, 2022 19:52:52 GMT -5
As for impacting me personally as a reader, my two choices are: Born Again - seeing Kingpin systemically destroy Matt Murdock's life and Matt's struggle back, the conflict between these two became instantly personal, more so perhaps than between any adversaries in Marvel (excepting perhaps Parker and the Osborns) Iron Man and alcoholism - I feel like though Michlenie & Layton introduced the conflict for Stark, they only addressed in broad terms. When O'Neill brought it back and doubled down on it by having Stark pay personal and professional consequences, it highlighted the effects and damages wrought by this disease more so. I am so glad that O'Neill played out Stark's long road of recovery instead of glossing over to a more quicker one. Plus, though it's often underrated, launching Rhodey onto his own path towards being a hero was a major turning point as well (and equally well done by O'Neill) I totally agree about the Oneil version of of the alcohol problem. It was great and I re-read it every few years. Welcome to the forum Hawke !
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 20, 2022 9:53:15 GMT -5
As for impacting me personally as a reader, my two choices are: Born Again - seeing Kingpin systemically destroy Matt Murdock's life and Matt's struggle back, the conflict between these two became instantly personal, more so perhaps than between any adversaries in Marvel (excepting perhaps Parker and the Osborns) Iron Man and alcoholism - I feel like though Michlenie & Layton introduced the conflict for Stark, they only addressed in broad terms. When O'Neill brought it back and doubled down on it by having Stark pay personal and professional consequences, it highlighted the effects and damages wrought by this disease more so. I am so glad that O'Neill played out Stark's long road of recovery instead of glossing over to a more quicker one. Plus, though it's often underrated, launching Rhodey onto his own path towards being a hero was a major turning point as well (and equally well done by O'Neill) There's one panel that had a big impact on me in the O'Neil run. Tony is living on the streets, and it starts to snow. He has something like five bucks left in his pocket, and although he could crash somewhere for something like 3 bucks, he first goes to a liquor store. There he spends all his money on a bottle, but in the background we see that's there's cheaper booze on sale; Tony could have bought that and still have had enough money to sleep indoors, but he was just too far gone at that point.
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Post by profh0011 on Jan 21, 2022 0:04:40 GMT -5
NOT the kind of story about Tony Stark I ever wanted to read.
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Post by dbutler69 on Jan 23, 2022 15:33:24 GMT -5
NOT the kind of story about Tony Stark I ever wanted to read. Yeah, I've been reading Iron Man, I started somewhere around #62 and I'm several issues into the O'Neil run, as Tony has just started drinking again in the last issues I read. I'm really not enjoying it at all. There was one story a couple of issues ago called "Bad Day" where so many things went wrong for Tony (as O'Neil is trying to drive Tony to drink again) that it's just ridiculous and unrealistic. The only person that could possibly have such bad luck is Peter Parker. I know O'Neil thought Tony got off too easy in "Demon in a Bottle" but I think he's laying it on too thick here.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 23, 2022 16:38:22 GMT -5
Agreed. I loathe O'Neil's run on Iron Man. I'd been following the character since the Tales of Suspense days but O'Neil caused me to drop the book from my pull list.
Cei-U! I summon the end of an era!
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Post by profh0011 on Jan 23, 2022 17:18:23 GMT -5
I know certain stories polarize opinions. So it goes.
Something I found odd at the time was... in the wake of several one-issue fill-ins (the kind of chaos that happened a hell of a lot more in the 70s & 80s than ever did in the 60s), O'Neil became IRON MAN's new regular writer WITHOUT the fact ever once being announced. It was like, he was one more fill-in guy, but then, someone decided he'd just stick around. FOR OVER 3 YEARS.
Then there's Luke McDonnell, who I still consider a horrible penciller, and Steve Mitchell, who never seemed to rise about being a 3rd-rate Klaus Janson (and I never liked Janson in the first place). They did genuinely get better as they stayed and stayed and stayed. But I also found it interesting that Akin & Garvey (a pair of "slick" inkers if there were were any) took over just about the time Tony's life started to turn around for the better.
Not sure what to make of the almost "Shogun Warrior"-style armor that debuted once he finally got his act together. The oddest thing may be the SILVER coloring, instead of the YELLOW/GOLDEN coloring.
And then, not long after Tony got himself together again, O'Neil was gone. Which gives me the impression DRAGGING HIM THRU THE MUD was the only thing O'Neil was ever really interested in doing. He did similar things (though not quite as brutal) with Deborah Harris over in DAREDEVIL.
This was all before he left Marvel (at Jim Shooter's URGING, I have no doubt) and took over as editor of Batman, and before he was half-through on that, made me genuinely come to HATE what had until then been my favorite costumed hero. Way to go, O'Neil.
If memory serves (without looking it up), after about 6 consecutive fill-ins by a rotating cast of writers & artists, Michelinie & Layton decided to come back for a 2nd run-- only this time, without J.R. Jr. A lot of it was pretty good. At the time, of course, I would have preferred if they'd never have left.
When they eventually DID leave, the 2nd time-- whatta ya know-- that's when J.R. Jr. finally did come back, his art having mutated to where it was almost unrecognizable from what he'd been doing before.
I don't know how I hung on as long as I did. But I did finally leave, BEFORE the stories that most fans generally tend to think were horrible and irredeemably awful arrived.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 23, 2022 17:26:14 GMT -5
I need to sit down and read these all together (Which I'll do soon)... maybe from like 100-200 or so
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Post by badwolf on Jan 23, 2022 17:26:52 GMT -5
Hated the silver and red armor! Ugly, bulky design.,
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2022 7:43:59 GMT -5
Overall I picked Swamp Thing, it seemed to me to take tragedy to a whole other level and still is one of the most shocking moments I've ever experienced as a reader (along with the first time I read the ending of Watchmen).
Another one that just came to mind is when Rogue absorbed Ms. Marvel's powers and memories. Carol's character had already been through the notorious storyline from Avenger #200, and then to also endure such a mental violation (even beyond the tragedy of losing her powers) was horrific. It would have lasting implications both for her and Rogue, eventually leading to Carol's complete transformation into Binary. Obviously a lot of reworking of the character after that and into modern times, but back in the day it was a major shake up indeed.
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Post by dbutler69 on Jan 24, 2022 19:19:46 GMT -5
Agreed. I loathe O'Neil's run on Iron Man. I'd been following the character since the Tales of Suspense days but O'Neil caused me to drop the book from my pull list. Cei-U! I summon the end of an era! I'm thinking I'll skip the rest of the run and move on to the next writer. Which I think is Michelinie again? That should be good.
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