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Post by berkley on Oct 15, 2021 2:09:56 GMT -5
Bringing it back to the Avengers, I've only seen the jacket-era in online samples, and I'm definitely in the Me-No-Like camp - and for much the same reasons I don't like the Wonder Man safari jacket look: I think that, no matter how good or bad it might look in itself, it jars with the whole superhero aesthetic of colourful, tight-fitting costumes that show off the characters' physiques - which, trivial as it may seem, is so intrinsic to the genre that anything that detracts from it needs a better reason than, "I wanna try something different".
I don't think there are too many examples of superheroes that do sport non-traditional costumes with good reason or to good effect: maybe the Phantom Stranger (but perhaps not really a superhero), Rorschach, ... certainly not (IMO) the Avengers in general or Wonder Man as an individual character.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 15, 2021 7:01:20 GMT -5
On the subject of jackets, I liked how Cham tried to impose them to the 5YL Legion he assembled, only to have most members never wear them! I wonder if it was a subtle comment on Keith Giffen's part.
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Post by commond on Oct 15, 2021 9:43:07 GMT -5
C'mon, everyone had a jacket in the 90s -- Gambit, Jubilee, Luke Cage, Nomad, Vance Astro, Blade, Superboy, Guy Gardner, Lobo, Starman. The list goes on and on.
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Post by brutalis on Nov 14, 2021 19:49:50 GMT -5
The 2 favorite things I loved seeing in Avengers comics back in the classic 60's through 80's was the Quinjet and the team ID cards. Both were just so cool and made sense. How else is a team to get around the world without it's own jet/space ship or keep track of who is officially on the current or inactive roster without an ID badge? Both are almost mandatory these days for businesses and powerful corporations.
Of course the Justice League had to go bigger and better with a space satellite capable of instantaneously transporting the members anywhere they needed to be. Bunch of show offs. These days where do the Avengers dwell? Not in a majestic and posh downtown mansion, but in the decapitated head of a dead Celestial. Oh how the mighty have fallen...
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Post by Hoosier X on Nov 14, 2021 20:26:29 GMT -5
... These days where do the Avengers dwell? Not in a majestic and posh downtown mansion, but in the decapitated head of a dead Celestial. Oh how the mighty have fallen... Huh? What the -? What did you say?
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Post by berkley on Nov 14, 2021 21:03:18 GMT -5
The 2 favorite things I loved seeing in Avengers comics back in the classic 60's through 80's was the Quinjet and the team ID cards. Both were just so cool and made sense. How else is a team to get around the world without it's own jet/space ship or keep track of who is officially on the current or inactive roster without an ID badge? Both are almost mandatory these days for businesses and powerful corporations. Of course the Justice League had to go bigger and better with a space satellite capable of instantaneously transporting the members anywhere they needed to be. Bunch of show offs. These days where do the Avengers dwell? Not in a majestic and posh downtown mansion, but in the decapitated head of a dead Celestial. Oh how the mighty have fallen...
Sounds like yet another example of a writer trying to make some character(s) look cool by having them defeat or in this case symbolically enslave one of those high and mighty Celestials. Who was it this time?
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
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Post by Crimebuster on Nov 14, 2021 22:24:10 GMT -5
I don't read Avengers or any Marvel comics anymore, but I know the space city of Knowhere is inside the head of a dead celestial. It appeared in the first guardians of the galaxy movie. I presume this is now Avengers headquarters for some reason.
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Post by brutalis on Nov 15, 2021 5:41:33 GMT -5
... These days where do the Avengers dwell? Not in a majestic and posh downtown mansion, but in the decapitated head of a dead Celestial. Oh how the mighty have fallen... Huh? What the -? What did you say? I slightly misremembered, it is the ENTIRE body of the "dead" 1st known Celestial called Progenitor not just the head. Located at Earth"s North Pole and standing erect semi embedded in ice, it is now "known" as Avengers Mountain. Jason Aaron came up with this in his run (no idea what volume) in Avengers 8. Supposedly the Celestials spoke through the Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider for granting the team permission to "live" in as caretakers of Progenitor"s now "dead" husk. Yeah. Don't ask for sense in modern comics, just ask for whatever seems kewl or spectacular.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2021 6:30:58 GMT -5
Huh? What the -? What did you say? I slightly misremembered, it is the ENTIRE body of the "dead" 1st known Celestial called Progenitor not just the head. Located at Earth"s North Pole and standing erect semi embedded in ice, it is now "known" as Avengers Mountain. Jason Aaron came up with this in his run (no idea what volume) in Avengers 8. Supposedly the Celestials spoke through the Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider for granting the team permission to "live" in as caretakers of Progenitor"s now "dead" husk. Yeah. Don't ask for sense in modern comics, just ask for whatever seems kewl or spectacular. There's a whole lot of stuff done in Golden Age, Silver Age, and Bronze Age comics too that doesn't make sense and was done because it seemed cool or spectacular, but we accept it because we read it when we were kids and now it is protected by the rose-colored armor of nostalgia. It's not an issue unique to modern comics. -M
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Post by Hoosier X on Nov 15, 2021 8:09:53 GMT -5
Honestly, it makes as much sense as Happy Harbor, Rhode Island.
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Post by brutalis on Nov 15, 2021 11:01:01 GMT -5
I am quite certain Santa does NOT like his territory encroached upon by a giant dead Celestial inhabited by superheroes. The alien invasions, villainous attacks and various sundry visitors has to play havoc with his schedule and toy production.
And the mail delivery competition between St. Nick and Avengers fan has to be quite horrible for the Postal Service. You would think a superhero team would choose a bit warmer climate considering the cost of keeping a big ass honking metal dead Celestial being's body warm enough to live in!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2021 11:42:04 GMT -5
I am quite certain Santa does NOT like his territory encroached upon by a giant dead Celestial inhabited by superheroes. The alien invasions, villainous attacks and various sundry visitors has to play havoc with his schedule and toy production. And the mail delivery competition between St. Nick and Avengers fan has to be quite horrible for the Postal Service. You would think a superhero team would choose a bit warmer climate considering the cost of keeping a big ass honking metal dead Celestial being's body warm enough to live in! Santa Claus was an old hand at dealing with alien invasions long before the Avengers relocated there... -M
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Post by berkley on Nov 15, 2021 21:17:24 GMT -5
Huh? What the -? What did you say? I slightly misremembered, it is the ENTIRE body of the "dead" 1st known Celestial called Progenitor not just the head. Located at Earth"s North Pole and standing erect semi embedded in ice, it is now "known" as Avengers Mountain. Jason Aaron came up with this in his run (no idea what volume) in Avengers 8. Supposedly the Celestials spoke through the Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider for granting the team permission to "live" in as caretakers of Progenitor"s now "dead" husk. Yeah. Don't ask for sense in modern comics, just ask for whatever seems kewl or spectacular. Ah yes, the talking Celestials. Another brilliant idea.
(edit:) Jason Aaron was the guy who had the Eternals commit mass suicide, wasn't he? Out of shame, after finding out they'd been crap all these years. I think that makes it pretty clear what he thinks of the whole idea.
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Post by berkley on Nov 15, 2021 21:28:22 GMT -5
I slightly misremembered, it is the ENTIRE body of the "dead" 1st known Celestial called Progenitor not just the head. Located at Earth"s North Pole and standing erect semi embedded in ice, it is now "known" as Avengers Mountain. Jason Aaron came up with this in his run (no idea what volume) in Avengers 8. Supposedly the Celestials spoke through the Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider for granting the team permission to "live" in as caretakers of Progenitor"s now "dead" husk. Yeah. Don't ask for sense in modern comics, just ask for whatever seems kewl or spectacular. There's a whole lot of stuff done in Golden Age, Silver Age, and Bronze Age comics too that doesn't make sense and was done because it seemed cool or spectacular, but we accept it because we read it when we were kids and now it is protected by the rose-colored armor of nostalgia. It's not an issue unique to modern comics. -M
Yeah, I see it more as an issue with superhero comics in general, rather than with some particular era - though it does tend to get worse over time as each new writer tries to out-do previous instantiations of this trope. It's also all tied up with the power-fantasy aspect of superhero stories, which has in some cases become more and more exaggerated even as superhero comics have become more "realistic" in other ways (though often, I would argue, in a very superficial and misleading manner). Witness the "Bat-god" as compared with earlier versions of the character.
In the case of the Celestials, I see it as one more reason they don't work well in the superhero universe.
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Post by bashbash99 on Nov 16, 2021 8:32:39 GMT -5
(edit:) Jason Aaron was the guy who had the Eternals commit mass suicide, wasn't he? Out of shame, after finding out they'd been crap all these years. I think that makes it pretty clear what he thinks of the whole idea.
I sure am hoping there's more to it, because having Eternals commit mass suicide sounds like a terrible idea for multiple reasons. I get wanting to reduce the Eternals numbers down to your core cast or whatever but feels like there are other, more preferable ways to go about it - why not have most of them fly off into space (the setup for Gillis' 80s series). The more of Aaron's ideas i hear, the less i'm inclined to check out more of this work. I didn't mind some of this Thor stories but haven't read much of his other work. His Eternals sounds awful and i'm not a fan of his turning She-Hulk into an angry roided out version. Making Avengers HQ a Celestial doesn't make much sense either, feels like that is 100% guaranteed to backfire as some point
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