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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 11, 2021 21:36:30 GMT -5
First thing I thought of with that pic is just where were Namor's hands coming from too! That's the costume with the '4', um window in the front, right?
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Post by foxley on Jun 12, 2021 5:18:57 GMT -5
First thing I thought of with that pic is just where were Namor's hands coming from too! That's the costume with the '4', um window in the front, right? That's the one. (Or the '4', as the case may be. )
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Post by tonebone on Jul 19, 2021 16:23:45 GMT -5
Jim Shooter writing a comic where Hank Pym is an abusive husband. Going on 40 years now. I seem to remember reading that it was not Shooter's intentions to have Hank strike Jan... I think he swiped his hand to push her out of the way and the penciller did his best, but when the letterer got it, it looked like he hit her, and so he lettered a "smack" and it made it through editing and then the following issue just rolled with it and acknowledged it... and like you said, 40 years later.....
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Post by Graphic Autist on Jul 19, 2021 16:34:08 GMT -5
I seem to remember reading that it was not Shooter's intentions to have Hank strike Jan... I think he swiped his hand to push her out of the way and the penciller did his best, but when the letterer got it, it looked like he hit her, and so he lettered a "smack" and it made it through editing and then the following issue just rolled with it and acknowledged it... and like you said, 40 years later..... That is pretty much what Jim Shooter has said about it on his blog. I just find it sad that 40 years later everyone still thinks of Hank Pym as a wife beater.
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Post by kirby101 on Jul 19, 2021 16:51:39 GMT -5
His portrayal in The Ultimates didn't help.
But sorry Jim, there is no way this can be seen as a push. Maybe Shooter didn't intend the scene to go this way, but it should have been redone once he saw it.
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Josh
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Post by Josh on Jul 19, 2021 17:01:20 GMT -5
Look at that panel. Even if it is “just a shove” it’s still horrible.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 19, 2021 17:32:31 GMT -5
I hadn't heard Shooter's comments before, but I don't really buy his story at all. The dialogue indicates an unbalanced Pym who snaps and resorts to a temper-driven outburst -- "SHUT UP!" The dialogue doesn't really work if it's just a shove or push IMO. I can believe that Shooter didn't intend for it to look quite as violent as that on the page, but I don't believe that Shooter intended it to be a "mere" shove.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2021 17:45:21 GMT -5
And this happened just one year after the Ms. Marvel pregnancy travesty of issue #200. The Avengers did not start the 80's well with these events.
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Post by profh0011 on Jul 19, 2021 17:55:53 GMT -5
I can't recall who said it on which message board... but it always sticks in my head, the time this one comics fan pointed out what was very obvious. He said, "Many writers put characters thru hell so they come out better and stronger people on the other side. But Jim Shooter seemed to love to DUMP characters into hell and then just LEAVE them there... as if he HATED them."
And other writers were always left to clean up Shooter's messes... that is, if they were allowed to.
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Jul 19, 2021 22:22:06 GMT -5
Shooter's excuse that the artist misinterpreted the script is weak. He also said there wasn't time to fix it, which is even weaker. He's the editor in chief, it's his job to fix this sort of thing, and if this truly was an art error he had an obligation to correct it even if it meant the book was late.
Having said all that, the Fall of Yellowjacket storyline is one of the best in Avengers history.
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Post by profh0011 on Jul 19, 2021 22:57:42 GMT -5
Usually, Shooter felt it was his job to INTERFERE with other people's work, if it somehow offended his narrow-minded sensibilities.
Like when he hijacked the end of a 2-year-long storyline Tony Isabella was doing in the JOHNNY BLAZE Ghost Rider series, because he didn't think "JESUS" should be a character in the Marvel Universe... even though, in that series, "SATAN" was!
Hey, why don't I just get it out of the way right now, and offer my opinion that Jim Shooter ISN'T a "great writer", so discussion of his work doesn't even belong in this thread.
His best work was all done before he graduated from high school. Which I find kinda sad.
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Jul 19, 2021 23:19:24 GMT -5
Definitely disagree with you in terms of his writing. For my money, his two stints on Avengers were both excellent.
Secret Wars 2 was terrible, but his Avengers runs were great.
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Post by foxley on Jul 20, 2021 2:26:44 GMT -5
He also wrote some great LSH stories.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 20, 2021 2:36:07 GMT -5
I'm struggling to think of any Jim Shooter-penned work that I think is really good. The first Secret Wars is a lot of dumb superhero fun, I guess, but it's nothing breathtaking. And Secret Wars II was dire. I haven't read his Avengers run.
So, ummmm...yeah.
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Post by dbutler69 on Jul 20, 2021 5:54:11 GMT -5
And this happened just one year after the Ms. Marvel pregnancy travesty of issue #200. The Avengers did not start the 80's well with these events. The blame for that one gets passed around to about a half a dozen individuals!
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