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Post by impulse on Mar 16, 2021 10:25:27 GMT -5
Sex is as much a part of human history as violence, and the two were often unfortunately a package deal. That doesn't really explain why one is accepted and the other shunned. I suppose a lot of it is holdover puritanical notions absorbed into American society.
I suspect at least in modern times, the violence feels more fantastical and far away whereas the sex seems like a more likely situation I think parents are more worried about their kids having an unplanned pregnancy than storming Normandy.
It's also interesting that there so many prudish and anti-nudity notions in America while simultaneously, we sexualize the ever-loving $**t out of our media. Odd dichotomy
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2021 10:52:04 GMT -5
Re what codystarbuck wrote above, for many years I played ball with a group of guys (almost all white) whose political and social outlooks were decidedly on the very conservative side. However, for a few years, one of the players on our roster, whom I'll call Joey, was a Black guy who worked frequently with a couple of the roofers on the team. My teammates had no problems at all with Joey, despite what I'd heard them say about race issues before. They knew Joey, liked Joey, and perhaps didn't see him as anything but Joey, the guy they worked with and played ball with. Joey moved a few years later, and it was only then that I learned from the other guys that Joey was also gay. I do think that knowing Joey made a big difference for my teammates. On the other hand, I don't know if it changes the way the ones who vote choose their elected officials. However, I do think it expanded their ability to at least put themselves in another person's place, and I hold out hope that at least a few of them imagined how they would have felt had it been Stevie whose neck had been under Derek Chauvin's knee for almost nine minutes. This is what I come to call exception racism, and I saw it in my parents and a lot of folks from their generation (though I doubt it was confined to that generation). They dislike a certain group (black, Latin X, Asian or whatever) but like certain individuals within that group and rationalize it by seeing those they like as exceptions to the general rule, not as a counter-argument to their general disdain for that group. I rarely see it lead to growth or modification of their negative views, it simply a case of "he's not like the others and is ok, but the rest of that lot..." not realizing there are good and bad in all groups and if they took the time to get to know more people within those groups they would find their assumptions and the stereotypes just might be wrong. People are quick to generalize when the first impression is negative, but slow to generalize when they encounter a positive example that counters their prejudices. And it often leads to strong denials like I can't be racist because I have a black friend... -M |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Mar 16, 2021 11:07:54 GMT -5
Everything she sings is an assault to my ears. But to be fair, outside of older music having "class" in how they got their words across, I did grow up listening to my parents records which included December 1963, Afternoon Delight and Let's Get It On, so .....  There is a big difference. Those older songs are like a romance novel with the activities implied. Her song is like a Penthouse Forum letter. And there is older music that was just as bad. WASP's F*** Like a Beast comes to mind.
And think of the mixed messages this sends. A pre teen boy hears a woman singing about her WAP and it is given awards? And yet he can't tell a girl in his class she is pretty because this may be considered harassment?
I agree with Impulse as far as age appropriate music goes. I can't even remember if my parents knew I was listening to those particular songs. But they were readily at hand for me to listen to along with all the other non-sexual songs that they owned. I could go from Carpenters to Barry Manilow or to any one of the aforementioned songs. I'll even put myself out there as far as age appropriate entertainment. My oldest son was playing Mature rated video games at around 6-7 years old. My wife and I monitored his behavior and his reactions to it, and there seemed to be no change in his behavior. He seemed perfectly able to separate fiction from reality. However a year or so later he's play a Teen rated Hulk game, acts out throwing something at his brother's cradle and knocks it over. We banned him from playing that game until he got older. Every child is different and can handle things differently than others their own age. I think in that, it's a parent's duty to take it as a case by case basis. And no I don't think that is okay. If a compliment is respectful and sincere people should not be reacting negatively to it no matter the gender of recipient or the person paying the compliment. Hell many years ago I was paid a compliment by a man and I bragged to my wife that both genders are after me lol. As I mentioned before I think a lot of things perceived as toxic are unwanted side effects of reaching the goal of gender equality. Because some people aren't after equality. They're after retribution of past sins, and it is ruining an entire generation of young men. I'd go so far as to say incels or mgtow, while not excusing their behavior, are the product of extremists on the other side. Along with depressed, suicidal young men who have withdrawn from even interacting with women/girls. You can't just law the entire patriarch of society at the feet of a generation of young men that are probably even more respectful and considerate of women than past generations, and not get negative results. (Sorry for the rant. This is kind of getting off the thread topic. But I am kind of going through this with my son and his gf's father.) |
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Post by Prince Hal on Mar 16, 2021 11:21:25 GMT -5
Re what codystarbuck wrote above, for many years I played ball with a group of guys (almost all white) whose political and social outlooks were decidedly on the very conservative side. However, for a few years, one of the players on our roster, whom I'll call Joey, was a Black guy who worked frequently with a couple of the roofers on the team. My teammates had no problems at all with Joey, despite what I'd heard them say about race issues before. They knew Joey, liked Joey, and perhaps didn't see him as anything but Joey, the guy they worked with and played ball with. Joey moved a few years later, and it was only then that I learned from the other guys that Joey was also gay. I do think that knowing Joey made a big difference for my teammates. On the other hand, I don't know if it changes the way the ones who vote choose their elected officials. However, I do think it expanded their ability to at least put themselves in another person's place, and I hold out hope that at least a few of them imagined how they would have felt had it been Stevie whose neck had been under Derek Chauvin's knee for almost nine minutes. This is what I come to call exception racism, and I saw it in my parents and a lot of folks from their generation (though I doubt it was confined to that generation). They dislike a certain group (black, Latin X, Asian or whatever) but like certain individuals within that group and rationalize it by seeing those they like as exceptions to the general rule, not as a counter-argument to their general disdain for that group. I rarely see it lead to growth or modification of their negative views, it simply a case of "he's not like the others and is ok, but the rest of that lot..." not realizing there are good and bad in all groups and if they took the time to get to know more people within those groups they would find their assumptions and the stereotypes just might be wrong. People are quick to generalize when the first impression is negative, but slow to generalize when they encounter a positive example that counters their prejudices. And it often leads to strong denials like I can't be racist because I have a black friend... -M Excellent points, and truth be told, I've seen those attitudes in many folks I know, including extended family members. "Exception racism" is an accurate term for it, and no, unfortunately, it's not confined to those now int heir 60s or 70s. My hope always has been that the acceptance of the one may lead people to reassess their opinions about the many, but as you say, I'm not sure too many people make that kind of leap forward in their thinking. |
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Post by impulse on Mar 16, 2021 11:28:40 GMT -5
Are there really a lot of cases on 12 year olds making well-intentioned, benign compliments and being accused of sexual harassments, or is this a one-off edge case, or, dare I say, a hypothetical that hasn't happened? I don't mean that in an antagonistic way, I am seriously asking and am prepared to adjust my understanding if there is new data, but that seems to me most likely an exception and not the norm if true.
Sincere compliments and asking someone out should generally remain socially acceptable so long as they are genuinely sincere and the asker can take a no the first time. But yes, this is getting a bit off topic, though it's related.
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Post by impulse on Mar 16, 2021 11:40:18 GMT -5
This is what I come to call exception racism, and I saw it in my parents and a lot of folks from their generation (though I doubt it was confined to that generation). They dislike a certain group (black, Latin X, Asian or whatever) but like certain individuals within that group and rationalize it by seeing those they like as exceptions to the general rule, not as a counter-argument to their general disdain for that group. I rarely see it lead to growth or modification of their negative views, it simply a case of "he's not like the others and is ok, but the rest of that lot..." not realizing there are good and bad in all groups and if they took the time to get to know more people within those groups they would find their assumptions and the stereotypes just might be wrong. People are quick to generalize when the first impression is negative, but slow to generalize when they encounter a positive example that counters their prejudices. And it often leads to strong denials like I can't be racist because I have a black friend... -M Excellent points, and truth be told, I've seen those attitudes in many folks I know, including extended family members. "Exception racism" is an accurate term for it, and no, unfortunately, it's not confined to those now int heir 60s or 70s. My hope always has been that the acceptance of the one may lead people to reassess their opinions about the many, but as you say, I'm not sure too many people make that kind of leap forward in their thinking. On a hopeful note, while I am sure a lot of folks are set in their ways and won't see that their one black/gay/Asian/etc. friend shows the stereotype is the exception instead of their friend being the exception, I do know that a lot of that is the case, at least in younger generations. I grew up in the era where being gay was still the butt of a joke, and society has come a very long way in understanding and accepting the LGBTQ+ community. As much as social media is rightly criticized for amplifying a lot of toxic views, it has also allowed people to hear from and understand a lot of perspectives from communities they might not otherwise have access to. There is a positive side, too, if we can keep the negative at bay. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 16, 2021 11:54:39 GMT -5
Are there really a lot of cases on 12 year olds making well-intentioned, benign compliments and being accused of sexual harassments, or is this a one-off edge case, or, dare I say, a hypothetical that hasn't happened? I don't mean that in an antagonistic way, I am seriously asking and am prepared to adjust my understanding if there is new data, but that seems to me most likely an exception and not the norm if true. Sincere compliments and asking someone out should generally remain socially acceptable so long as they are genuinely sincere and the asker can take a no the first time. But yes, this is getting a bit off topic, though it's related. No. There are not. This is a case of people seeing a few isolated incidents and blowing them out of proportion. It's the same phenomenon that has people convinced that crime is at an all-time high when, in fact, crime in general, and violent crime in particular, have been falling since the 1970s. The problem started with the advent of cable news stations and the corresponding 24-hour news cycle. You have to have something...anything...to fill those hours. So everything became sensationalized. It is exacerbated social media. When I was a kid news meant a half hour of network news in the evening and two half-hour local news shows, one in the evening and one after prime-time. The local news are mostly local news, sports and weather with a couple of national stories. Local newspapers were largely about local stuff, so unless you were reading a national newspaper (New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, etc.) you weren't getting a lot of news from other parts of the country. The weekly news magazines (Time, Newsweek, etc.) had to be selective and broad-based. But now, news that would have been local or, at best, regional, say a guy killing his family, is blasted out on social media world-wide in minutes. And the vast majority of non-discerning consumers take it as a sign that everything is worse than it's ever been. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 16, 2021 12:56:10 GMT -5
On that subject, I can't recommend Hans Rosling's book Factfulness highly enough. In a nutshell: things are going way better than we usually think, and they're getting even better too!
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Post by Duragizer on Mar 16, 2021 19:19:31 GMT -5
I consider myself a nudist. I feel most comfortable when I don't have to wear clothing. But I don't live in an environment conducive to nudism.
But the day will come.
Then I will bear all.
Oh yeah. Then the state will quake.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2021 16:51:27 GMT -5
[I grew up in the era where being gay was still the butt of a joke, and society has come a very long way in understanding and accepting the LGBTQ+ community. As much as social media is rightly criticized for amplifying a lot of toxic views, it has also allowed people to hear from and understand a lot of perspectives from communities they might not otherwise have access to. I have a thirteen-year-old daughter and I am constantly marveling at how different her generation is in this regard. The amount of "out" friends she has seems to be almost equal to the number of straight friends she has. This ratio might be biased because she is bisexual herself (she came out about a year ago - so proud!). When I was in middle school, the only discussion of non-straight sexuality was mean-spirited speculation. |
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Post by DE Sinclair on Mar 20, 2021 9:10:08 GMT -5
I consider myself a nudist. I feel most comfortable when I don't have to wear clothing. But I don't live in an environment conducive to nudism. But the day will come. Then I will bear all. Oh yeah. Then the state will quake. Alaska? Cause it gets pretty chilly there. |
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Post by Duragizer on Mar 20, 2021 15:32:18 GMT -5
I consider myself a nudist. I feel most comfortable when I don't have to wear clothing. But I don't live in an environment conducive to nudism. But the day will come. Then I will bear all. Oh yeah. Then the state will quake. Alaska? Cause it gets pretty chilly there. LOL. No, I'm not even American. I meant this type of state. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,867
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Post by shaxper on Mar 20, 2021 21:37:21 GMT -5
I consider myself a nudist. I feel most comfortable when I don't have to wear clothing. But I don't live in an environment conducive to nudism. But the day will come. Then I will bear all. Oh yeah. Then the state will quake. The one thing I've never understood about nudist colonies is hygiene. Like, does everyone bring their own chair? |
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Post by berkley on Mar 20, 2021 21:44:36 GMT -5
I consider myself a nudist. I feel most comfortable when I don't have to wear clothing. But I don't live in an environment conducive to nudism. But the day will come. Then I will bear all. Oh yeah. Then the state will quake. The one thing I've never understood about nudist colonies is hygiene. Like, does everyone bring their own chair?
I suppose they could carry around a little piece of cloth to sit on - hey, maybe this is how the whole idea of clothing got started: someone had the bright idea, "Wait a minute, instead of carrying this around in my hands all the time, I could tie it around my waist so that every time I sit down it'll be right there underneath me!"
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 24, 2021 18:32:43 GMT -5
I consider myself a nudist. I feel most comfortable when I don't have to wear clothing. But I don't live in an environment conducive to nudism. But the day will come. Then I will bear all. Oh yeah. Then the state will quake. The one thing I've never understood about nudist colonies is hygiene. Like, does everyone bring their own chair? I think you just plop down in the sand, after the volleyball game. |
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