shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Mar 3, 2021 20:55:58 GMT -5
I generally avoid Marvel books published after the mid-1990s, and I rolled my eyes when I first heard about House of M in 2005, but now I'm wondering if it's worth reading as a sort of companion to Wandavision.
So I guess this is a twofold question:
1. Is House of M any good?
2. Will it enhance my appreciation of WandaVision?
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Post by badwolf on Mar 3, 2021 22:12:05 GMT -5
I liked it, but I think a large part of that might have been due to Olivier Coipel's art. To be honest I don't remember the story at all.
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Post by SJNeal on Mar 4, 2021 0:22:36 GMT -5
Considering you've watched WandaVision first, you might actually really enjoy House of M. At the time, I was torn. On one hand it was entertaining, and like badwolf said, Coipel's art was gorgeous. On the other hand, it just felt like the next step in Bendis' strategic destruction of the poor woman...
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Mar 4, 2021 0:25:57 GMT -5
It's a Bendis book with a large cast, so I can't imagine it being good.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Mar 4, 2021 9:56:06 GMT -5
I haven't read it since back in the day, and I only bought the main mini-series and the Generation M companion series (I passed on all the other tie-ins), but I liked it a fair bit. Bear in mind, I'm not much of an X-Men fan at all, so its not like the changes that House of M wrought mattered to me overly, but yeah...it was an engaging and entertaining story. However, I didn't think it was as good as some of the Marvel "events" that followed it, like World War Hulk, Civil War, and Secret Invasion. Still, I'd give House of M a solid 6/10 though.
No idea how it ties into WandaVision or whether it'll improve your viewing experience as I'm not watching it.
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Post by impulse on Mar 4, 2021 12:14:55 GMT -5
In my opinion, House of M is the catalyst for the utter destruction of the X-MEN comics in the 21st century and marked the beginning of the ruination of the concept. So, personally, I am not a fan. The artwork was gorgeous, and the main story and some of the spin-offs started out okay, but I didn't like the ending, and I hated the outcome. Ruined the X books after Morrison revitalized them.
I am not saying anyone has to like his run, but he left the X-concept in a really interesting place for others to pick up on, but HoM was the tool Joe Q used to cram the genie back into the bottle.
Take my very biased opinion with a healthy helping of salt.
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 4, 2021 13:16:02 GMT -5
In my opinion, House of M is the catalyst for the utter destruction of the X-MEN comics in the 21st century and marked the beginning of the ruination of the concept. So, personally, I am not a fan. The artwork was gorgeous, and the main story and some of the spin-offs started out okay, but I didn't like the ending, and I hated the outcome. Ruined the X books after Morrison revitalized them. I am not saying anyone has to like his run, but he left the X-concept in a really interesting place for others to pick up on, I generally dislike Morrison's work (very deeply, sometimes) but I was happy with what he did with the X-Men. Their dropping the spandex, their becoming the teachers of an actual school, mutants becoming a trend-setting population, those were all ideas that opened plenty of new doors for the future. There were plenty of hiccups during Morrison's run, plot-wise, but they didn't detract from the new direction he had given the X-universe. Much as I liked Whedon's nostalgia-flavoured run that followed, I think it was a major mistake for Marvel to set the clock back to the '80s. House of M and the ensuing "mutants are an endangered species" utter and complete nonsense just made things worse. Oddly enough, I enjoyed a large part of Bendis's X-books that came later; they were unfortunately marred by too much self-referencing and too many abrupt breaks caused by company-wide crossovers, and they largely ignored the way characters had been depicted since the '60s, but they seemed to really be building up to something different... until they turned out not to. Bummer.
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Post by impulse on Mar 4, 2021 13:20:50 GMT -5
You pretty much covered it, though I stopped collecting before Bendis took over the X books. In fact, his total disregard or respect for past characterization and lack of any effort to get the voices right was the straw that broke the camel's back for me regarding X-Books after reading the preview of the first issue of AvX.
But yes, the next evolution of the concept. Rather than only being hidden persecuted minority, mutants were now a significant subculture like any other, had their own art, restaurants, etc. They were now out and proud in the world, so to speak. It was a much-needed modernization of the concept that brought it up to date with how actual minorities and sub cultures are these days. I was very disappointed with Quesada's insistence on taking the Marvel books back to how they were when he was kid.
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 4, 2021 14:10:21 GMT -5
(...) I was very disappointed with Quesada's insistence on taking the Marvel books back to how they were when he was kid. So was I, and even more so after having read Quesada's enthusiastic endorsement of Morrison's vision when the man came onboard with his "Mutant manifesto" set of guidelines. Just saying "well, that was appropriate then, and returning to the spandex is appropriate now", as Quesada did in interviews when Whedon started his Astonishing X-Men run, simply doesn't cut it. With that kind of argument, any change can be explained away. Going back to the '80s was in no way justified by the overall plot, by creative necessities, or even by sales. It really felt like Marvel's editor-in-chief had an opportunity to bring in a Big Name Author and gave the guy carte blanche with the assurance that no matter what he did, he'd have his back. Those are of course just this comic-book fan's grumbles. Business-wise, hiring Whedon was a good move (no matter what he did, even if it had been turning the X-Men into the Mutant Muppets) and it did deliver the plot for a movie that, panned as it was, made a lot of money.
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Mar 5, 2021 13:34:18 GMT -5
they were unfortunately marred by too much self-referencing and too many abrupt breaks caused by company-wide crossovers, and they largely ignored the way characters had been depicted since the '60s, but they seemed to really be building up to something different... until they turned out not to. Bummer. You just perfectly described New Avengers as well in every way.
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Post by badwolf on Mar 5, 2021 13:39:51 GMT -5
they were unfortunately marred by too much self-referencing and too many abrupt breaks caused by company-wide crossovers, and they largely ignored the way characters had been depicted since the '60s, but they seemed to really be building up to something different... until they turned out not to. Bummer. You just perfectly described New Avengers as well in every way. Yeah, New Avengers was not good.
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Post by impulse on Mar 5, 2021 14:37:42 GMT -5
It almost sounds like a pattern with this Bendis guy.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Mar 5, 2021 15:35:38 GMT -5
I can't say I liked House of M, but I having the X-Men in their own country off San Francisco, then the following Second Coming story. They COULD do alot with the concept they've evolved into now, but no doubt Hickman will foul it up before he gets bored and leaves.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 5, 2021 23:31:12 GMT -5
It almost sounds like a pattern with this Bendis guy. Personally, I always thought Bendis was a better writer away from superheroes. I enjoyed his own work on AKA Goldfish, Jinx, Torso, Project Fire and the like; but, was mostly indifferent to his superhero stuff. He had a good ear for Spider-Man dialogue, in Ultimate Spider-Man; but, I didn't really follow it (just perused a few issues). Even his indie stuff was overly beholding to others, as he was in love with David Mamet's dialogue and liked to have his characters talk over one another, to the point it disrupted scenes; but, they were far more interesting characters than the superheroes. Dan Slott was more enjoyable of that era, for me, since his stuff had a sense of humor and a sense of history; Matt Fraction also, to a certain degree. I gave up on the X-Men in the early 80s and never came back, except to peak at an issue here or there. it just felt repetitive then, and seemed like more of the same as time passed. Everything was either another Dark Phoenix, Alien, or Mutant Hunt, with different characters slotted into key roles. By the time of House of M, I barely touched a Marvel book unless it had a sense of humor (like She-Hulk or Great Lakes Avengers), had someone like Kurt Busiek or Mark Waid (Untold Tales of Spider-Man, Waid's FF and Cap, Thunderbolts, Busiek's Avengers), who mixed in history with a new twist.
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Post by impulse on Mar 6, 2021 16:39:27 GMT -5
It almost sounds like a pattern with this Bendis guy. Personally, I always thought Bendis was a better writer away from superheroes. I enjoyed his own work on AKA Goldfish, Jinx, Torso, Project Fire and the like; but, was mostly indifferent to his superhero stuff. He had a good ear for Spider-Man dialogue, in Ultimate Spider-Man; but, I didn't really follow it (just perused a few issues). Even his indie stuff was overly beholding to others, as he was in love with David Mamet's dialogue and liked to have his characters talk over one another, to the point it disrupted scenes; but, they were far more interesting characters than the superheroes. Dan Slott was more enjoyable of that era, for me, since his stuff had a sense of humor and a sense of history; Matt Fraction also, to a certain degree. I gave up on the X-Men in the early 80s and never came back, except to peak at an issue here or there. it just felt repetitive then, and seemed like more of the same as time passed. Everything was either another Dark Phoenix, Alien, or Mutant Hunt, with different characters slotted into key roles. By the time of House of M, I barely touched a Marvel book unless it had a sense of humor (like She-Hulk or Great Lakes Avengers), had someone like Kurt Busiek or Mark Waid (Untold Tales of Spider-Man, Waid's FF and Cap, Thunderbolts, Busiek's Avengers), who mixed in history with a new twist. I've enjoyed Bendis more in solo titles or when it's his own character without established personality to ignore. I really liked Alias. Fraction was another one whose solo/street stuff came off better than his team/superheroes. Brubaker too.
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