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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 15:47:51 GMT -5
Most of what I will be watching will come from the following collections...  Film Noir Classics Vol. 1 Sniper Big heat 5 against the house Five against the house Lineup Murder by contract  Film Noir Classics Vol. II Human desire Pushover Brothers Rico Nightfall City of fear Human desire Pushover Brothers Rico Nightfall City of fear plus rewatching a few Bogart classics like Maltese Falcon, Key Largo and Casablanca. There is also a series of collections call Bad Girls of Noir. For fans of Hammer Horror, there is also a series of Hammer Noir double feature DVDs featuring Hammer released noir films. -M |
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Post by Hoosier X on Nov 5, 2014 16:34:25 GMT -5
"Too Late for Tears" is an almost-unknown gem of a movie with the amazing Lizabeth Scott and the almost-as-amazing Dan Duryea.
And Dan Duryea is also in the amazing film noir directed by Fritz Lang, "Scarlet Street." It also stars Joan Bennet and Edward G. Robinson.
And, yeah, "Sniper" is really amazing. I've never seen the first few minutes, but one time I started watching it on cable and I was really sucked into it. Marie Windsor rules!
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 5, 2014 17:02:33 GMT -5
Keep in mind that film noir is a retrospective view of films that weren't filmed as noir. Though the term was coined in 1946 it didn't come into common use outside of French film critic circles until the late 60s/early 70s. So essentially you're looking at film that were considered "crime dramas" or melodramas or some such at the time they were filmed and have since been classified as noir retrospectively. The same thing with literary noir, which is even more problematic because that term arose because of the growth of the study of film noir.
I don't think you can reasonably consider Citizen Kane as film noir and have seldom seen it described as such. That doesn't mean it's not important to the study or the history of film noir because a lot of the lighting and shadow as well as the long takes in Kane were informed by German Expressionism, which is instrumental in the development of films noir. Also you can see the evolution from Kane to Lady From Shanghai to The Stranger to Touch of Evil, all of which clearly are films noir.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 17:10:19 GMT -5
I haven't seen North by Northwest, but I don't think it's considered noir. I don't think it being in Technicolor is the reason, though. I tend to think of spy films as a different animal entirely. of which I've seen about 3-4 times in my lifetime and I consider it more like a mystery, thriller, and some spy elements thrown in for good gestures. It's about 50 percent Mystery and 30 percent Thriller, and 20 percent Spy type theme elements. I don't consider this a noir movie at all. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 5, 2014 17:14:38 GMT -5
As to Hitchcock...while he's not generally considered a noir director certain of his films are absolutely noir. Shadow of a Doubt and Strangers on a Train are clearly noir as is The Wrong Man. Cases can be made for Rear Window (particularly given its source) and Vertigo.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 17:31:07 GMT -5
I was gonna say Rear Window was probably the closest I'd seen.
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 5, 2014 19:08:32 GMT -5
Just watched The 39 Steps and decided it probably isn't Noir. On the other hand, I'm starting to wonder if The Godfather is. Right on 39 Steps. No on Godfather, though parts of it have a noirish look. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 5, 2014 19:17:51 GMT -5
North by Northwest: no
Vertigo: No
Rear Window: no
Wrong Man: yes
Strangers on a Train: Yes
Shadow of a Doubt: Yes, though from the far end of the spectrum, with Detour at the other.
(If it's in color, it really can't be a noir, unless it's Farewell, My Lovely, with Rob't. Mitchum.)
Try these. Hardly comprehensive, and I'm leaving out others mentioned.
DOA (Edmond O'Brien)
Cat People
The Prowler
Gun Crazy
Double Indemnity
Sunset Boulevard
Touch of Evil
Nightmare Alley
The Big Sleep
The Big Heat
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 5, 2014 19:20:39 GMT -5
Oh, and Act of Violence with the excellent (always) Robert Ryan. Great little masterpiece.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 5, 2014 20:04:23 GMT -5
I don't think it really has to be Black and White to be Noir, though many are.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 5, 2014 20:21:52 GMT -5
Cat People is noir??? I mean, the visual look I can see, but the supernatural aspect, and the total lack of a criminal element nor hard as nails male character?
The more we discuss this, the more convinced I am that everyone has their own uniquely different understanding of noir.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 5, 2014 20:35:10 GMT -5
As others have said, it's more of a feeling than a hard and fast definition though for me noir films tend to be films with a pervasive dark mood with existential or expressionist themes, and highly stylized filming techniques. Other than that it's not as hard and fast as horror as a noir film can be a crime drama, a suspense film, a western or in some very rare cases even comedies(I'm talking about you "It's a Wonderful Life"!)
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,867
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Post by shaxper on Nov 5, 2014 20:41:37 GMT -5
As others have said, it's more of a feeling than a hard and fast definition though for me noir films tend to be films with a pervasive dark mood with existential or expressionist themes, and highly stylized filming techniques. Other than that it's not as hard and fast as horror as a noir film can be a crime drama, a suspense film, a western or in some very rare cases even comedies(I'm talking about you "It's a Wonderful Life"!) That criteria works better for me. I'm going to stick with it. But I would also add that it probably has to be a relatively grounded film -- no supernatural, science fiction, etc. I wonder about whether spy stories should be counted, though. And, technically, by this definition, you could include Kurasawa's Seven Samurai, but that doesn't seem right. So modern day, mostly urban, ordinary people? |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 5, 2014 20:49:31 GMT -5
I think Rear Window gets a pass because it's based on the short story by Cornell Woolrich. Woolrich, of course, have birth to the novels that initiated the "roman noir".
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Post by Hoosier X on Nov 5, 2014 21:25:10 GMT -5
North by Northwest: no Vertigo: No Rear Window: no I whole-heartedly agree with all these. I'm a little less certain about "The Wrong Man." It's so straightforward. The enemy isn't some mysterious unfathomable conspiracy, it's just some bureaucratic incompetence. It's very Kafkaesque. Strangers on a Train: Yes Shadow of a Doubt: Yes, though from the far end of the spectrum, with Detour at the other. I agree, Strangers on a Train is film noir, especially for Robert Walker. And Shadow of a Doubt is Hitchcock's most noirish film. (If it's in color, it really can't be a noir, unless it's Farewell, My Lovely, with Rob't. Mitchum.) I've never seen the Mitchum version, but I do love the novel "Farewell My Lovely" and the movie "Murder My Sweet" with Dick Powell as Marlowe. The only color film noir (as opposed to neo-noir) is Chinatown, IMHO. |
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