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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2020 13:49:49 GMT -5
My favorites of the Retroactive books were the Messner-Loebs Wonder Woman issue and the JLA '90s issue, featuring the JLI. Whatever your opinion of the Bwah-ha-ha league, that'll be your opinion of the JLI retro book.
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Post by dbutler69 on Nov 3, 2020 14:35:40 GMT -5
So what were the best made of these DC Retroactive comics for someone who has never tried one? I think I might take the plunge on the '70s style Batman, that's what seems would be the most appealing (not the jokey hammy '60s tv Batman, as a little kid I probably took it seriously but watching later it didn't appeal to me much, although I did go on a spin of trying to collect ever cash-in recording made of the theme tune starting from that one great Ventures LP). Honestly, my memory kinda sucks and I can't remember specifically which ones I liked more and which I didn't. But here’s my attempt to sort it out… I think I liked the Flash-70's one, written by Cary Bates, though I don't think this tale would have been told quite like that back in the 70's. I'm pretty sure I liked the Flash-80's one by William Messner-Loebs. I think that if you liked the Messner-Loebs run (and especially with work with the Rogues Gallery) in Wally's Flash series, then you should like that one. I don't think I ever read the Flash-90's one. I think the Batman-70's one was pretty good, but not great, if I remember correctly. It seemed to have a "to be continued" ending. I think I liked the Batman-80's one a bit more, though it featured a Mike Barr Batman villain I'd never heard of before (though I'm not a Batman expert). I don't think I ever read the Batman-90's one. I think that the Green-Lantern-70's one was fairly reminiscent of the Denny O-Neal-Mike Grell era from the 70's, and I'm not sure GL & GA even met in this one, but that era did have some issues where the two heroes weren't together much, if at all, if I remember correctly. I don't think I ever read the Green Lantern-80's or 90's ones. I do seem to recall enjoying the JLA-70's one quite a bit. I think that was one of the better ones. I think the JLA-80's one was one of the weaker ones, if I remember correctly. They really could have chosen the Satellite JLA, Detroit JLA, or the Giffen/DeMatties JLA to represent the 80's JLA and they went with...JLA Detroit! Now, I really don't mind that era as much as most people, and I went into this with an open mind but, while certainly not bad, I just didn't think this one was anything special. JLA-90's. If you liked the Giffen/DeMatties JLA run...and I do...then you should like this one. Just a fun, silly, comic. I seem to recall that Superman-70's was pretty good, at least if you like 70's Superman stuff it should be worth a read. Superman-80's was, I believe heavily Crisis on Infinite Earths dependent, which is not the direction I would have chosen to go. I didn't read Superman-90's. The Wonder Woman-70's one wasn't that great, if memory serves me correctly. Certainly, I didn't care for the art, which aside from not being to my liking in general, didn't capture the era well at all. The Wonder Woman-80's one was pretty good. It captured the era pretty well and the art was a lot better than the 70's issue. So, overall, I think that I liked the JLA 70’s and 90’s ones quite a bit, then I guess the Flash70’s and 80’s ones, the Batman 80’s, Superman 70’s, and Wonder Woman 80’s…I think. I didn’t think any were terrible, but several were certainly nothing special, and frankly, in terms of art, I’m not sure many if any captured the era all that well (which doesn’t mean the art was bad) but maybe some of that it the modern paper, inks, and color, while some is just the changing style, such as not drawing the “lines of action” I’ve talked about before.
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Post by dbutler69 on Nov 3, 2020 14:37:21 GMT -5
My favorites of the Retroactive books were the Messner-Loebs Wonder Woman issue and the JLA '90s issue, featuring the JLI. Whatever your opinion of the Bwah-ha-ha league, that'll be your opinion of the JLI retro book. I totally agree with you on the JLA 90's. That's probably my favorite DC Retroactive of the bunch. I'll have to check out that Wonder Woman-90's issue. So far, the only 90's one I've read if the JLA issue, so I'll have to catch those other ones.
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Post by beccabear67 on Nov 3, 2020 14:54:14 GMT -5
I saw 'inside' the '70s Green Lantern a bit online... while it has Mike Grell art who did the comic in the later '70s it's very modern looking inside and out which disappoints me. I'll put the three Batmans and maybe the '70s Flash and JLA on my list.
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Post by dbutler69 on Nov 3, 2020 14:57:00 GMT -5
I saw 'inside' the '70s Green Lantern a bit online... while it has Mike Grell art who did the comic in the later '70s it's very modern looking inside and out which disappoints me. I'll put the three Batmans and maybe the '70s Flash and JLA on my list. Honestly, in terms of the art, at least, I think most of these are sort of modern looking.
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Post by chadwilliam on Nov 3, 2020 19:20:24 GMT -5
So what were the best made of these DC Retroactive comics for someone who has never tried one? I think I might take the plunge on the '70s style Batman, that's what seems would be the most appealing (not the jokey hammy '60s tv Batman, as a little kid I probably took it seriously but watching later it didn't appeal to me much, although I did go on a spin of trying to collect ever cash-in recording made of the theme tune starting from that one great Ventures LP). I really liked the 70's one which, though Mandrake didn't work on the character until the 80's I believe, does feel faithful to the era. It does have a bit of character development which is crucial to the story, but which obviously can't retroactively be worked into the stories of that period (Wein's or anyone else's) which is a bit odd. Mike Barr uses The Reaper again for Batman: Retroactive The 80's and it retains the flavour of his 80's Batman work which means it also has a bit of 50's flavour to it since Barr's output from that time evoked certain elements of those earlier stories (ie. Just as his 80's stuff with Alan Davis incorporated 1950's styled splash pages and giant props, so too does this incorporate touches such as "Readers! We have given you all the clues you need! Can you solve this mystery before Batman does?" captions and a Batman who refers to Robin as 'chum'). It's sort of a companion piece to Year Two and Full Circle and doesn't feel like the odd man out in comparison. The 90's issue was worth it to me to see Norm Breyfogle return to Batman and with an Alan Grant script at that. I thought this one was alright and I'd be pretty spoiled if I thought that Grant and Breyfogle reuniting one last time for a Scarface/Ventriloquist/Gatman tale wasn't worth recommending. The only other one I read was the 70's Superman issue which, unfortunately, was marred by some poor artwork by Eduardo Baretto. I say "unfortunately" because I believe that he was in ill health at the time and that he passed away not too long after which explains why it isn't up to par with the beautiful stuff he was capable of when life gave him a chance. Martin Pasko's story, however, does feel appropriate to the era (right down to Lana Lang calling everyone 'Luv') so if you liked his material then, you shouldn't have a problem with it here. Of course, Bronze Age Superman for the most part wasn't all that great in my opinion, so it's possible that fealty to the period isn't a strong selling point on this one.
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Post by dbutler69 on Nov 4, 2020 6:28:33 GMT -5
I read DC Retroactive-Wonder Woman-90's last night. It was a cute story. I don't know anything about 90's Wonder Woman so I don't know how well it captured that era, but it was a nice story.
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Post by brianf on Nov 4, 2020 14:59:45 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2020 17:13:29 GMT -5
I read DC Retroactive-Wonder Woman-90's last night. It was a cute story. I don't know anything about 90's Wonder Woman so I don't know how well it captured that era, but it was a nice story. It felt more timeless to me than specifically '90s, but I didn't care so much about revisiting the '90s when I picked it than I did about getting another Messner-Loebs WW story. It's definitely not substantial, but it's nice enough to stay stay in my collection.
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Post by tarkintino on Nov 4, 2020 17:38:23 GMT -5
I'm surprised no one mentioned 1999's The Incredible Hulk vs. Superman-- Stern script, Rude pencils with Milgrom inks, which was an excellent retro crossover that actually had a believable purpose to it. It was another one of those 90's one-shots that captured the heart of superheroes in ways the monthlies did not (ohhh, the 90s..). It is such a spiritual predecessor to Cooke's DC -The New Frontier in so many ways, that they could bookend each other quite well. ..and like an episode of The Incredible Hulk TV series, Banner walks off in the distance after something goes south...
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Post by chadwilliam on Nov 4, 2020 18:28:22 GMT -5
I'm surprised no one mentioned 1999's The Incredible Hulk vs. Superman-- Stern script, Rude pencils with Milgrom inks, which was an excellent retro crossover that actually had a believable purpose to it. It was another one of those 90's one-shots that captured the heart of superheroes in ways the monthlies did not (ohhh, the 90s..). It is such a spiritual predecessor to Cooke's DC -The New Frontier in so many ways, that they could bookend each other quite well. ..and like an episode of The Incredible Hulk TV series, Banner walks off in the distance after something goes south... This one didn't work for me as it incorporated too many styles which were difficult to reconcile with one another, in my opinion. The Hulk harkened back to the early 60's, but the Superman continuity followed that of the 80's while the art went for a 40's look while from a Marvel perspective was set in the continuity of the early 60's. It just pulled in too many directions though if you're a fan of early Hulk, I suspect it worked well since they decided on that path and stuck to it. From a DC perspective, it drew too much attention to how much of their history has become. Still, Steve Rude artwork alone probably makes it worth a look and this is all my opinion anyway.
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Post by profh0011 on Nov 4, 2020 21:34:08 GMT -5
Steve Rude has long been my #1 favorite comics artist still working in the biz. I remember that period when he had an opportunity to make more money working for "the big two". Unfortunately, too many of those special short projects had BAD writing, in my view. THIS was not one of those. Roger Stern, to me, blew most of the other writers completely out of the water.
Another was Fabian Nicieza, which really shocked me, as he'd never impressed me at all before he teamed with Rude. They did the SPIDER-MAN project together. It so well captured the look and feel of the John Romita era, it had the bad side-effect of reminding me of just HOW AWFUL Spider-Man had been since Romita stopped doing the book. It even made Roger Stern's run on ASM seem bad, by comparison. (If memory serves, the Rude SPIDER-MAN story was the very last Spider-Man comic I ever bought. I've never picked up any new ones since then.)
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Post by berkley on Nov 4, 2020 23:16:38 GMT -5
I'm surprised no one mentioned 1999's The Incredible Hulk vs. Superman-- Stern script, Rude pencils with Milgrom inks, which was an excellent retro crossover that actually had a believable purpose to it. It was another one of those 90's one-shots that captured the heart of superheroes in ways the monthlies did not (ohhh, the 90s..). It is such a spiritual predecessor to Cooke's DC -The New Frontier in so many ways, that they could bookend each other quite well. ..and like an episode of The Incredible Hulk TV series, Banner walks off in the distance after something goes south... This one didn't work for me as it incorporated too many styles which were difficult to reconcile with one another, in my opinion. The Hulk harkened back to the early 60's, but the Superman continuity followed that of the 80's while the art went for a 40's look while from a Marvel perspective was set in the continuity of the early 60's. It just pulled in too many directions though if you're a fan of early Hulk, I suspect it worked well since they decided on that path and stuck to it. From a DC perspective, it drew too much attention to how much of their history has become. Still, Steve Rude artwork alone probably makes it worth a look and this is all my opinion anyway.
I've only seen bits of it but as is the case with a lot of these Marvel/DC crossovers the premise doesn't grab me all that much - for one thing, isn't Superman vs Solomon Grundy much the same kind of thing already? But I'm not the best judge since I don't like Superman in the first place, so it's an uphill battle for me as a reader.
I'm also not as big a fan of Steve Rude's retro-style art as a lot of people are. Sometimes it looks pretty cool but a lot of the time I'm left with a feeling that something's missing. A skilful imitation can be fun but I would usually ask for a little more from the creators, otherwise what's the point of the whole exercise? Also, in this specific case, I don't think Rude captured the brutality and menace of the very early Hulk as drawn by Kirby and other artists, so even the imitation wasn't entirely successful in spirit.
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Post by tarkintino on Nov 5, 2020 4:41:21 GMT -5
I've only seen bits of it but as is the case with a lot of these Marvel/DC crossovers the premise doesn't grab me all that much - for one thing, isn't Superman vs Solomon Grundy much the same kind of thing already? Not really. That's all DC, so the appeal for fans wanting to see the big two companies crossover was not there. Moreover, taking it back to the early 60s--when the idea of superheroes seems like they are actually unique and not one of a trillion super-beings on every block (which begs the question of why they are nt all butting heads morning, noon and night). Oh. for shame! For shame! I believe Rude is reaching the logical goal of using a so-called "retro" style, but specifically imitative of any one artist; yes, his Hulk is Kirby-esque...but its his own work as well. Same with Superman--you might get echoes of Jack Burnley and Wayne Boring, but its all brought together by Rude's unifying style that fits the era the story was set in. Personally, I think Rude's Hulk comes off like a violent force of nature, especially when he lets loose on someone (Superman) he's itching to hurt.
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Post by steveinthecity on Nov 5, 2020 11:36:48 GMT -5
One I thought of was Fantastic Four “Unstable Molecules”, a four issue series from 2003. Written as a biographical account of the real life people who were the basis for the Fantastic Four characters and comic book. It’s not at all an origin story like you’ve probably read countless times before, includes fictitious history of early Marvel (story sources and bibliography even!), and snippets of some early (imaginary) comics from the 1950’s. Very entertaining.
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