|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2020 11:24:55 GMT -5
Although I saw some episodes as a kid, I have been watching the 1981 SPIDER-MAN cartoon via Disney+. It is fun, and I like how quirky some episodes can be.
However, methinks that classic Marvel cartoons were aimed at people who would already know the origins of characters. Three episodes into SPIDER-MAN, there’s no mention of Uncle Ben. No origin story for Spidey. No recap for the web-slinger. That’s fine for me, but if someone had not known about the character back then, and discovered him via the cartoon, it explains nothing.
The Lizard was in the third episode. Wearing his usual lab coat. No mention of Curt Connors, though. No throwaway line about the good doctor. So I guess they expected viewers to know who he was.
None of this is a complaint. Just observations.
Some shows did, of course, provide recaps, e.g. the 1978 FANTASTIC FOUR (did they do an origin episode?). The 1967 SPIDER-MAN cartoon waited until the first episode of the second season to show us the origin of Spidey; prior to that, there was nothing.
Again, not a complaint.
With 1981’s SPIDER-MAN, and other shows, I can only presume a few things. Firstly, with episodes running around 22 minutes, there’s only so much to fit in. With regards to the Lizard, explanations/flashbacks pertaining to Curt Connors would have added time to the episode. Secondly, as stated, they probably presumed viewers would be familiar with the characters. Thirdly, with the cartoons no doubt being aimed at a very young audience, could it be that some things were deemed too dark? Connors, an amputee, explaining his origins could be too dark for younger viewers. And maybe some networks considered the details of Uncle Ben’s death to be too dark.
Who knows? Lots of guesswork here.
|
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Aug 22, 2020 19:05:44 GMT -5
You could get away with a lot more in the 60s (Batman & Robin and Race Bannon used to punch kick and shoot people); but, the networks varied a bit, and Spidey was syndicated, which meant they needed broad appeal to sell to more markets. Death was a bit rarer. Also, cartoons weren't expected to be watched every week, so there was little continuity. You also only had about 25 minutes of screen time; so, you got down to action quickly. All that wrks against a Spidey origin.
Most US cartoon characters didn't get one. The FF was covered in the opening title sequence. Jonny Quest never really got one, other than the first episode ("The Lizard Men") had a government agent looking at Dr Quest's file and mentioned that Jonny's mother was "gone" and that Race was there to protect Dr Quest and Jonny (Hadji wasn't added yet) That was it. You do see them do a flashback to explain how Hadji met the Quests and came to live with them and Dr Zin and Jezebel Jade turned up more than once; but, nothing is explained about their backgrounds. Jonny Quest was actually shown in prime time, so it was aimed at a bit older audience.
Scooby Doo never showed how the gang met, they were just always together. It was never outright stated whose dog Scooby was. As time wore on, it was established that he was Shag's and you got other Doo family members. They didn't show Scoob and Shag meeting untildecades later.
None of the Hanna-Barbera adventure cartoons had origins, such as Birdman, Space Ghost, Mightor, the Herculoids or Young Samson. They were just superheroes. You accepted it and got on with it. The humor cartoons never bothered because everything was about slapstick and jokes. You never saw Archie meet Jughead for the first time; you just got the next adventure or silly situation.
It varied a bit. Some cartoons added things, over time, as they needed new story ideas, usually via flashback. The Flintstones and others did this all the time.
The 1980 Filmation Flash Gordon Started with them in orbit around Mongo, but never explained how they got there. It was established that Flash, Dale and Zarkov were from Earth, but that was all. However, the tv series started out as a made-for-tv movie, which did explain. It started in 1939, during the Nazi invasion of Poland, as they are bombing Warsaw. You see Stukas dive in and drop bombs on the city, as Flash rushes in to a room to find a man named Janos, who is dying and utters the word Mongo. Then, you see him on a plane, with Dale, when meteors strike the wings and disable it. Flash and Dale jump together, with one parachute and end up near Zarkov's lab and he shows them his rocket, said they are being bombarded from space, and they lift off to fly to Mongo. Later, you see Ming watching footage of a Nazi rally, while he also has a model of the V-2 rocket, which hadn't appeared, yet. The implication is that Ming was providing advanced weapons to the Nazis, as his proxy in conquering Earth. The network was impressed with the footage and asked for a series and Filmation used the plot of the movie for much of the first 4 episodes, with edits for violence not allowed on Saturday morning. This meant cutting out the opening sequence, with death and destruction. That same footage was used again and again for battle sequences, as well as staging scenes, like Ming's robot soldiers emerging from a ship and lining up in formation, or processions into thronerooms, or Ming enter his throneroom, etc. The finale of the movie served as the final episode of the first season, as they did it as a 16-part serial, which was very rare. Funny thing was, they didn't air the telemovie until after the series had had at least one run through of episodes.
80s cartoons were more interested in exloring backstories; but, that depended greatly on the company. The origins of GI JOE and COBRA were never explored, in the cartoon, that I'm aware of, though I only watched the initial debut and a couple of odd episodes. I couldn't stomach the bad animation and the bloodless combat. Ay least Jonny Quest taught you to respect firearms, while GI JOE said no one ever gets hurt when you fire a gun, laser or otherwise, at someone.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cei-U! on Aug 23, 2020 8:39:00 GMT -5
A quick correction: The third episode of the 1967-68 Fantastic Four cartoon retold the origins of both the FF and Dr. Doom.
Cei-U!
I summon Paul Frees, the definitive Ben Grimm!
|
|
|
|
Post by brutalis on Aug 23, 2020 11:05:42 GMT -5
As children don't really require an origin story, their capable of readily accepting of being "told" the basics and diving in to immerse themselves in the fun and joy.
Details? We don't need no stinking details! Get on with the action already. What's to know? GI Joe are the good guys, Cobra are the bad guys. All I need to know right there...
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2020 11:39:58 GMT -5
But I wanted to know if Cobra Commander graduated from college. And what about Destro?  |
|
|
|
Post by brutalis on Aug 23, 2020 12:43:55 GMT -5
But I wanted to know if Cobra Commander graduated from college. And what about Destro? Cobra Commander would be a high school dropout. Explains his start as a used car salesman in the comics. 😁 Destro would have been raised like royalty as an arms dealer's son in the European world. A student of finest tutors and the very best college money can buy. Military and martial arts and political training from highly trained professionals, again the best that money can buy. |
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on Aug 28, 2020 23:29:35 GMT -5
Although I saw some episodes as a kid, I have been watching the 1981 SPIDER-MAN cartoon via Disney+. It is fun, and I like how quirky some episodes can be. However, methinks that classic Marvel cartoons were aimed at people who would already know the origins of characters. Three episodes into SPIDER-MAN, there’s no mention of Uncle Ben. No origin story for Spidey. No recap for the web-slinger. That’s fine for me, but if someone had not known about the character back then, and discovered him via the cartoon, it explains nothing. Grantray-Lawrence's The Marvel Super-Heroes (1966) featured several origin stories, including Captain America and Bucky, Black Widow, the Hulk, Hawkeye, and if I recall, a flashback to Iron Man's origin. Even several villains had their origins explored, such as the Red Skull, Baron Zemo, the Super-Adaptoid, the Mandarin, the Crimson Dynamo, the Swordsman, the Leader, et al., and this was during the so-named "superhero boom" of the mid 60s, where fans were very aware of the origins, yet Grantray-Lawrence made a point to explore so many character introductions. Oh, I understand. Not a problem at all. The Ralph Bakshi directed second and third season of Spider-Man may as well have been a reboot since the series all but ignored the plots and tropes of the first, by not only starting with the origin, but having Parker placed squarely as a college student, dealing with problems one would expect with that age--similar to the comic. It was in the Bakshi seasons that Captain Stacy, Mary Jane and the Kingpin were introduced, and while there were some way out stories ( "Home", "The Birth of Micro Man" and "Revolt in the Fifth Dimension" come to mind), it also had its share of more grounded plots and/or villains. Its my favorite part of that series. It appears the choice to adapt origins was on a case by case basis, but you would see quite a few. Even as the 1981 solo Spider-Man cartoon did not adapt his origin, the network series-- Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends (1981-83) featured origin episodes of the three leads. |
|
|
|
Post by profh0011 on Sept 7, 2020 12:56:01 GMT -5
I've noted with some amusement that the Adam West BATMAN series only references his origin 3 times-- once each season. and the 3rd time was so vague, I wound up laughing out loud when I finally noticed it was there. (It was in one of the funniest episodes, too.) Crazy as it may be, the 1967 Grantray-Lawrence SPIDER-MAN series is my favorite version of the character, more so than even any of the the comics. So be it. A few of the stories were adapted from original comics stories, but the rest were originals. (Funny enough, the 1st Scorpion episode adapted the first 2 Steve Ditko Scortpion stories into a single 10-minute cartoon. Isn't that nuts?) You wouldn't know it from the IMDB (people add wrong info there a lot), but G-L went bankrupt ONE episode into the 2nd season. I remember so clearly when it happened, but didn't know until a decade later what was really going on. They started the 2nd season, doing apair of sequels, and if you watch closely you can see the drawing is a bit different , and there's some editing tricks they'd never used before. It looked like season 2 was onto a good start. And then, suddenly, the 2nd week, they did "The Origin Of Spiderman". And the WHOLE SHOW changed. WTF? At 9 years old, I suspected the next week they'd be back to norman, but... no. Not only did the new style remain, the new episodes followed from the origin, not the previous season. Has any other TV show pulled a stunt like this over the decades? I can't think of one!
Steven Krantz, the distributor, had made a deal with Martin Goodman, and out-sourced the show to Grantray-Lawrence. But the way they divied upo the money, they got most of it, the animation studio got very litt,e and were on a very tight budget. And "SPIDER-MAN" was such a gigantic step up from the extremely-limited animation they'd done the year before with "THE MARVEL SUPERHEROES SHOW", they walked a fine tightrope that whole year. The slightest mis-step might send them over... AND EVENTUALLY DID. Kranzt, having already been paid by ABC, wasn't going to give the money back, so he hired Ralph bakshi and had himn set up a new studio in a run-down warehouse in a bad neighborhood of NYC to knock out season 2 (and 3) for nearly-no money. It's astonishing how much those episodes grew on me over the decades...
By the way, a lot of people may not realize this, but that origin cartoon was NOT adapted from the one Steve Ditko wrote in AMAZING FANTASY #15. It was actually very closely adapted from the redo in SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN #1 (B&W magazine) that came out in mid-1968, only a few months before the cartoon aired! Some of the dialogue from the redo was used verbatim in the cartoon. This includes a scene where someone referred to Peter as " a four-eyed foul-up" for wearing glasses. Except... he wasn't wearing glasses in the TV version. But the kept the line in anyway.  The Ralph Bakshi-Lin Carter-Gray Morrow episodes are a unique hybrid of 2 different styles. They reused a ton of the 1st season's backgrounds and animations, and Ray Ellis' incredible music score. But they also added a ton of brand-new backgrounds, animation, and about 2/3rds of the music was brand-new "production music" from the KPM, Capitol & DeWolfe libraries (music recorded on the cheap for producers with very little money). |
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on Sept 7, 2020 20:03:27 GMT -5
Steven Krantz, the distributor, had made a deal with Martin Goodman, and out-sourced the show to Grantray-Lawrence. But the way they divied upo the money, they got most of it, the animation studio got very litt,e and were on a very tight budget. And "SPIDER-MAN" was such a gigantic step up from the extremely-limited animation they'd done the year before with "THE MARVEL SUPERHEROES SHOW", they walked a fine tightrope that whole year. The slightest mis-step might send them over... AND EVENTUALLY DID. Kranzt, having already been paid by ABC, wasn't going to give the money back, so he hired Ralph bakshi and had himn set up a new studio in a run-down warehouse in a bad neighborhood of NYC to knock out season 2 (and 3) for nearly-no money. It's astonishing how much those episodes grew on me over the decades... I believe the Bakshi episodes are a cut far above the 1st season, which did not capture the mood of Peter Parker's dual life in any way like the comic source. The library music was also taken from the Conroy, CPM (Carlin Production Music), Josef Weinberger, LTD. and other labels. Personally, the library music gave Spider-Man a much needed sense of drama that the Ellis cues lacked, particularly in scenes focusing on Parker. |
|
