Basically, the title is the long and short of it! Inspired by my incorrect assumption of what the Run Killer thread was going to be, this is a place to discuss those issues that were so bad, so appallingly out of character, so forced, so unbelievable, or just otherwise so wrong or out of place they utterly ruined the story/run/title for the foreseeable future.
I am not putting restrictions around what qualifies, so feel free to tell us what ruined it for you. It can be a single issue, a single panel, a shift in creative team, or anything.
Now, I liked the concept a lot and was interested in reading more, but I didn't really have many of my own on hand. After doing some thinking, some that somwhat qualify:
X-Men # 54, Vol. 2 1996.
The reveal that Onslaught was... drumroll.. Charles Xavier!!!!
Now, granted that in hindsight, the X-Books had been on the decline for some time, and my interest had already been waning, but this was the straw that broke the camel's back. This was the catalyst for me dropping out of comics for the first time.
What makes it so bad? Well, everything. The books for some time had felt kind of soulless and like they had been running out of steam, and shocking reveals were losing their impact. Pulling the "your hero was really dark and evil all along!" was a bridge too far, felt too edgy, too dark for the sake of dark, and felt forced and out of nowhere. The last time the X-Books had been any good at the time was the original Age of Apocalypse, and even that was a fluke at the time.
Another and perhaps the biggest for - House of M # 8 with Wanda's "No more mutants" decree which had single-handedly ushered in the ruination of the X-Books. Love him or hate him, Morrison's run was the freshest thing to happen to the X books in a decade, and the new status quo he left would have forced people to tell new stories in a new setting to some degree. House of M was Marvel shoving the genie back in the bottle after it was too late.
It took some time, but this was the seed that eventually led to me dropping my comics for the second and more permanent time, starting with the main line X Books. The issue was so bad it didn't just kill an arc but the whole line!
I bought the Onslaught Omnibus a few years ago to see what the fuss was about. So. Bad. Incoherent. One mindless fight scene after another, without a glimmer of personality or wit. I guess Marvel was trying to out-Image Image in the “big muscles and big guns is all they want” race.
Post by beccabear67 on Jul 21, 2020 11:28:56 GMT -5
(Uncanny) X-Men #153 tops my list but there have been others...
I've figured out that the year 1996 and early 1997 at Marvel does not exist for me... scorched earth. I'm not sure if it doesn't include 1995 and other years too... now and then there are traces of the big muscles n' necks n' guns n' boobs thing later, and even that Liefeld guy in some credits (avoid as much as possible along with Deadshatterbloodbladecarnagepoolwhatever type guys), but Erik Larsen seems normalish on Nova, Defenders and the retro F4 book. So I guess Onslaught and Zero Tolerance are 'events' best left in footnotes for this reader!
I like that panel with the dinosaur. I stopped reading the Avengers after the end of the Korvac saga, so I missed this second Perez run. I've since bought most of them in back issues, just for the artwork, really, as I suspect I won't like the writing much, based on memories of the little I saw of it at the time.
A few years back, I set upon the idea of collecting and reading EVERY Avengers story from the Kree/Skrull War up through Avengers #300.
I was having a really good time!
And then I hit this issue...
It's been what? Two years since I read this trainreck? And yet I still can't get back into reading the remaining hundred issues I have sitting around, waiting on me.
You’re missing out on some good reading. The Fall of Hank Pym, Under Seige, most of 255-300 was good stuff.
Agreed. Read Roger Stern's run. The characterization and action will make you forget this one gross speed bump of an issue.
For me, first choice would be Bendis on Avengers starting with his Disassembled arc. His decade long reign over the team soured me due to his poor characterizations and plotting. Spider-Man and Wolverine joined the team and while I can see Peter joining (with his prior history of chances) I see no way, no excuse for why Logan should be a member other than a pure money grab by Marvel. And the reason why Cap brought Logan onto the team is and remains complete rubbish.
Between this and 'No More Mutants' effect on the X-books, I stopped reading most of Marvel for that decade. I tried though, I even started reading Marvel Adventures Avengers to get a feeling of that old team spirit. The only bright spot I found was Dan Slott's small run on Mighty Avengers but even that didn't last long.
Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 22, 2020 11:16:19 GMT -5
Conan the barbarian #232-239, sometimes referred to as "Conan, year one".
Conan had its ups and downs as a series: Roy Thomas had a very good run with moments of brilliance for the first 115 issues, then J.M. DeMatteis, Michael Fleisher and Bruce Jones produced years of generic and mostly uninteresting material; then Jim Owsley had a darn cool few years before the book went back into its generic mode... and then this.
Apparently someone at Marvel thought that readers had a hard time finding any interest in the adventures of a barbarian in his late twenties, and would much prefer to have Conan as a teenager. Trying to emulate the success of books like Batman: year one, this run sent us back to the early days of the Cimmerian's career (an idea that Roy Thomas would pick up again later with the Conan the adventurer series).
To say that it is bad would be an understatement of Hyperborean size. This mishmash of clichés, lousy twists and utter disrespect for the original material was so awful that when Roy Thomas mercifully came back to the book with issue 239, he retconned the whole thing into a bedtime story told by an aged Conan to his young kid (with Conan's wife emphasizing that the tale was quite different from others he had told).
Yes, Roy Thomas would come back right at the end of this run-breaking year... proving that it is always darkest right before the dawn!