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Post by james on Feb 5, 2020 9:18:53 GMT -5
I am sad to say that my comic reading days are over. At least when it comes to what's coming out today. Except for maybe 5 titles ( Immortal Hulk, Superman, Batman's Grave, Butcher of Paris, and Freedom Fighters). Three of these titles are Maxi-Series, Freedom Fighters has just wrapped up, and the other 2 I'm hanging on my teeth. I went on on DCBS to see what was coming out in February. And I was embarrassed by what the companies were putting out. I have officially become the "get off my lawn" guy. James
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Post by kirby101 on Feb 5, 2020 9:29:27 GMT -5
We have been there James. I would say, if you love comics, abandon the Big Two and look at the other publishers. My pull list is mostly Image and Dark Horse, there are still many good books out there.
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Post by brutalis on Feb 5, 2020 9:43:27 GMT -5
Comic Reading days are never truly over. There is always something new that will eventually catch your attention which you like. And if nothing new is around, then look to back issues/reprints as those will always entertain. Plenty of other venues to explore as well: you can look into newspaper comic collections, Manga editions, French/Italian albums and there is plenty of British past and current to dip into. Never completely give up, just refocus and dedicate to finding what you like most. It takes more time and effort and cost but in the end you still have good reading to enjoy!
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Feb 5, 2020 9:52:59 GMT -5
No shame in this, my friend. Tastes change, circumstances change, interests change.
At one point, back when I was in college and working in a comic book shop, my monthly pull list was close to 30 titles. I was buying every X-title, multiple Spider-Man books, and a whole bunch of second-tier books. Today? 4 books a month: Captain America, X-Men, Marauders, and Firefly.
I have 1000s of books and stories that I've collected over the years that have sat unread, and I am trying to work my way through those. I read 90+ "classic" comics in January, every one of them a first-time read. In the past three years, I have read the entirety of Thor (including the Journey into Mystery stories), Defenders, Hero for Hire/Power Man/Power Man & Iron Fist, Master of Kung Fu, post-Crisis Flash, and the first 75 issues of Mike Grell's run on Green Arrow. Currently reading Iron Man from the beginning, while working in some late-Silver/early-Bronze Age Batman and Detective and some Silver Age Wonder Woman.
Read what you like. Buy what you like. Don't give the industry money if you aren't enjoying what they're producing. Do the hobby the way YOU want to do it, not the way they want you to.
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Post by tarkintino on Feb 5, 2020 10:08:19 GMT -5
Read what you like. Buy what you like. Don't give the industry money if you aren't enjoying what they're producing. Do the hobby the way YOU want to do it, not the way they want you to. We are barely in February, and this is arguably the post of the year.
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Sadly
Feb 5, 2020 10:22:49 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2020 10:22:49 GMT -5
Great post by James. What embarrassed you specifically, James?
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Sadly
Feb 5, 2020 10:56:13 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Icctrombone on Feb 5, 2020 10:56:13 GMT -5
Many of the old timers on this forum have passed that road. I still read new books via the streaming comic aps. You can still find decent reads. Immortal Hulk isn’t half bad.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 5, 2020 11:07:25 GMT -5
Read what you want. You don't owe any company or any character anything. You owe it to yourself to read good stories and give yourself enjoyment.
As with any era there is good and there is a whole lot of bad. Sturgeon's Law applies always. I do agree with Kirby101 that there are a lot of good books out there, but you also need to keep in mind that you are simply not the target demographic for comics publishers.
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Sadly
Feb 5, 2020 11:09:28 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by james on Feb 5, 2020 11:09:28 GMT -5
Read what you want. You don't owe any company or any character anything. You owe it to yourself to read good stories and give yourself enjoyment. As with any era there is good and there is a whole lot of bad. Sturgeon's Law applies always. I do agree with Kirby101 that there are a lot of good books out there, but you also need to keep in mind that you are simply not the target demographic for comics publishers. Believe me I know!!
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Crimebuster
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Sadly
Feb 5, 2020 12:11:47 GMT -5
Post by Crimebuster on Feb 5, 2020 12:11:47 GMT -5
The only "mainstream" books on my pull list now are Archie titles.
These days, I get most of my comics from Kickstarter! There are a ton of indie creators bypassing the direct market and bringing comics directly to readers through Kickstarter. I love the energy and enthusiasm, but mostly, the huge diversity of voices, genres, styles, and stories being told.
Just a thought! If you still love the form but can't find the content, give it a look, you might find something cool.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 5, 2020 12:25:03 GMT -5
I was born in 1966 and was reading comics from 1970 onward. I read anything I got my hands on (mostly because I couldn't get my hands on them regularly, living in the country); so that was Archie, Harvey, Western/Gold Key, DC and Marvel. I read Christian Spire, I read Atla/Seaboard. By the mid 80s, though, I was pretty much done with Marvel. The Paul Smith run was my last X-Men and Miller was my last Daredevil. Classic X-Men was about the only series I read from them, plus the odd one-shot or mini. That stayed true from then on, with occasional forays into things like Busiek and Perez Avengers (for less than a year, though), Thunderbolts, Captain America (Brubaker), etc. Most of my Marvel buying was trade collections of Silver or Bronze Age Material.
By the late 90s, I was mostly done with DC, except for James Robinson's Starman and JSA (and JSA petered out after a while).
Just before college, I discovered the existence of the indies and slowly moved in that direction. That sustained me into the early 2000s, with various books.
By the 2000s, apart from the odd project, I didn't pick up new DC or Marvel and a lot of indie material became way more sporadic as companies went by the wayside, creators wrapped up long running series or went on to other projects. I started exploring more European works, as the bulk of the manga that was coming out translated wasn't my cup of tea (or my age group). The early manga wave of the 80s had more of my kind of material; but, the 90s and beyond wave was far more aimed at pre-teens and teens and it just didn't do much for me. Meanwhile, Cinebook started scratching an itch that Catalan Communications and NBM had started (and Maurice Horn's World Encyclopedia of Comics) and I started to dive into that stuff. Also, DC had a brief partnership with Humanoids that fed a lot of material. Everything from Lucky Luke and Spirou to XIII, Valerian, Blake & Mortimer to Bilal, Yves Charland's Freddy Lombard, and Alejandro Jodorowsky's White Lama.
Along the way, I was also reading the Fantagraphics reprints of Prince Valiant, the Corto Maltese collections, Torpedo, Terry & the Pirates, Dick Tracy, Carl Barks.
There's a wealth of material out there, if you are willing to explore, with an open mind. Superheroes can be something you outgrow; until someone does something different with them (more mature, a new hook, a twist on an old idea); but, there are Western stories, war comics, sci-fi, horror, historical, humor, political, slice of life, biographical....you name it.
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Sadly
Feb 5, 2020 21:19:51 GMT -5
Post by chadwilliam on Feb 5, 2020 21:19:51 GMT -5
you also need to keep in mind that you are simply not the target demographic for comics publishers. This is something I've been wondering about more and more recently - does anyone know who is the target demographic these days - at least for superhero comics in, say, North America? For the longest time, obviously it would have been kids and eventually college aged (or army aged) students, but it seems as if the publishers have given up on trying to entice at least the younger kids back into the field and since I'd personally estimate that the average ten year old hasn't bothered with comics in something like twenty years, then that leaves us forty, fifty, and older customers being the only ones interested enough in the hobby to keep it afloat. I mean, aiming to please 40/50 year olds might not seem like a sound business practice, but if those are the people still buying comics regularly, that might just have to be who DC, Marvel, etc has to cater to. I keep hearing that the movies and TV series don't bring in new readers and I suspect that comics are a sort of difficult hobby to stumble upon these days what with them no longer being readily available at convenience stores, etc, so if there is a younger crowd buying these things, where are they coming from? Am I underestimating the power of online reading/paperback sales through book stores/something else?
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Sadly
Feb 5, 2020 22:36:08 GMT -5
Post by hondobrode on Feb 5, 2020 22:36:08 GMT -5
As DC is gearing up for their 5G event I could care less.
For the longest time they have been my favorite publisher, but I feel more like Marvel of the last 20 or 30 years to me now, and with Wonder Woman's Chainsaw of Truth, I think the camel's back has been broken.
Outside of the Legion of Super-Heroes, that's the only mainstream Big Two title I'm currently buying, the lowest it has ever been.
I'm way behind on Valiant but still love them, and like a lot of Dark Horse and Image and some IDW and others, with classics like Fantagraphics and comic strip reprints appealing to me more and more.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2020 23:40:10 GMT -5
you also need to keep in mind that you are simply not the target demographic for comics publishers. This is something I've been wondering about more and more recently - does anyone know who is the target demographic these days - at least for superhero comics in, say, North America? For the longest time, obviously it would have been kids and eventually college aged (or army aged) students, but it seems as if the publishers have given up on trying to entice at least the younger kids back into the field and since I'd personally estimate that the average ten year old hasn't bothered with comics in something like twenty years, then that leaves us forty, fifty, and older customers being the only ones interested enough in the hobby to keep it afloat. I mean, aiming to please 40/50 year olds might not seem like a sound business practice, but if those are the people still buying comics regularly, that might just have to be who DC, Marvel, etc has to cater to. I keep hearing that the movies and TV series don't bring in new readers and I suspect that comics are a sort of difficult hobby to stumble upon these days what with them no longer being readily available at convenience stores, etc, so if there is a younger crowd buying these things, where are they coming from? Am I underestimating the power of online reading/paperback sales through book stores/something else? graphic novels in the young adult market is the fastest growing segment of the book trade as a whole, let alone the comics industry. Young kids and young adults love comics and buy them in bunches, just not in periodical format or featuring super-heroes. However, DC's young adult offerings featuring super-heroes (what was their Ink and Zoom lines) are doing very, very well. Their Raven book was a New York Times Best Seller and has had multiple printings (I think its on its fourth) in less than a year since its release. Trades (particularly Ms. Marvel and Dinosaur Girl) sell very well through Scholastic to kids in school. Again, not monthly periodical serialized stories but comics in book form aimed at a young adult market. The direct market, however, selling dinosaur formats in niche locations only frequented by people who already know they like that product and already consumers of that product is never going to be a growth market finding new audiences. It was never meant to be, it was designed to service existing customers, and when the outreach market of newsstands went away, the comics industry never bothered to design a new outreach market , which is why they lost the youth market, achieved entropy and are now a shrinking niche market servicing a regressive consumer base who won't support formats or content that have evolved with the times. Kids still love comics, hey are just not interested in a dinosaur format that serializes stories in periodicals. The comics industry has seen what sells and have tried to evolve the content to appeal to that growth market, the problem is that they are packaging and selling it in a format that does not appeal to that market and selling it in niche destination shops that does not serve that customer base, who do not frequent such places. The other horn of the dilemma is that the small shrinking existing customer base who does want their product in that format does not want the type off content that appeal to what is the growth market, and comic publishers in the direct market are caught on the horns of that dilemma. Moving to a product and format that appeals to the growth market will cause them to lose a lot of their existing customer base and pretty much sound the death knell for the direct market which has been their main path to market for the past couple of decades. Sticking with the content and format the existing customer base prefers will mean they will not find purchase in the growth market and their existing customer base will continue to shrink from the entropy of an aging customer base with little to no new customers coming in to replace those who die, age out, lose interest, have changed financial circumstances, etc. Most attempts to produce two types of products, one to appeal to the existing customer base and one to tap into the growth market are shouted down by entrenched entitled fans and direct market retailers as a betrayal, as they fell all product produced should be targeted towards them and funneled through their market, which has only hastened the entropy effect on the existing market. Catering to the existing market (the 40/50 years olds) simply puts an expiration date on this iteration of the comics industry and the direct market, and causes the industry to miss out on yet another generation of new readers-they've missed 3 by my count so far since the loss of newsstands as a viable path to market). Tapping into what is the growth market (sales of GN in the book trade rose 16.9% in 2019, mostly fueled by books in the YA field) will give comics a new life but just might be the death knell of the periodical comic and the direct market. Marvel for its part is doubling down on the direct market it seems, and not producing anything for the growth market (except for the Marvel Action Heroes line licensed out to IDW). DC is exploring the growth market and after initial success, they are revising their approach a bit to better manage that market after learning from their initial foray, altering the pace of releases and how they market the books outside the direct market. They are also continuing to outreach to mass market customers with books in Walmart and Target in a different format ($5-$10 Giants with a mix of new and reprint stories), but have begun offering some of those to the Direct Market (the Walmart books are available through comic shops a month after they are released in Walmart with new cover art, but the Target oneshots are still Target exclusives). IDW has tried to reach into the book trade, but were bleeding money in 2019 and estimates are they wont be profitable again until 2021 (of they survive that long) as they make the transition of their business practices to adapt to the new realities of where the growth sectors are in the market, and the other bigger indy publishers continue to chug along as they always have (Image has done well in the book trade all along with their collected editions and some of their marquee creators are moving towards producing OGN rather than serialized first collected later trades). When its all boiled down though, the bottom line is that kids and young adult comics are the only sector of the industry where there is growth. The industry is in transition, and not all the publishers will survive that transition, and when all is said and down, comics will survive (and in some cases thrive), but the industry and the products will look different than what we have been used to. -M
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2020 0:23:12 GMT -5
For a counterpoint, this is what I found interesting enough to order in the January Previews (i.e. stuff I am still buying in periodical format not collected editions), not a lot of super-heroes per se, but a lot of stuff from DC (a large chunk of it is Joe Hill's Hill House imprint and the Sandman Universe stuff, plus the Giants and facsimile edition type stuff not ongoing monthlies)...
Image: Family Tree #5 $3.99
Dark Horse: Bang #2 $3.99 Crone #5 $3.99 Hidden Society #2 $3.99 Skulldigger & Skeleton Boy #4 $3.99
IDW: D&D Infernal Tides #5 $3,99 Usagi Yojimbo #9 $3.99
DC: Robin 80TH Anniversary 100 PAGE SUPER SPECTACULAR #1 $9.99 Strange Adventures #1 $4.99 Amethyst #2 $3.99 Aquaman Giant #3 $4.99 Basketful of Heads #6 $3.99 Batman's Grave #6 $3.99 Books of Magic #18 $3.99 Daphne Byrne #3 $3.99 Detective Comics #38 Facsimile Edition $3.99 Dollar Comics Batman #428 $1.00 Dollhouse Family #5 $3.99 Dreaming #19 $3.99 From Beyond the Unknown Giant #1 $4.99 Hawkman #22 $3.99 House of Whispers #19 $3.99 John Constantine: Hellblazer #5 $3.99 Last God #6 $4.99 Low Low Woods #4 $3.99 Lucifer #18 $3.99 Mystery in Space #75 Facsimile Edition $3.99 Plunge #2 $3.99 Superman Giant #2 $4.99 Titans Giant #1 $4.99
Marvel: Marvel #1 $4.99 Conan: Battle for the Serpent Crown #2 $3.99 Dark Agnes #2 $3.99 Dr. Strange #4 $3.99
Dynamite: Killing Red Sonja #1 $3.99 Red Sonja #14 $3.99
BOOM! Folk Lords #5 $3.99
so I am still finding a lot of stuff out there to like, just not ongoing superhero monthlies (I think there are only 2-Hawkman and Dr. Strange) that I am getting. Image was a little light this month as Criminal ended its current incarnation with #12, and Gideon Falls is in a skip month between arcs and a few other series are on longer hiatus (Trees, Inception). A lot of stuff is limited series a couple of which end with this month's books (Crone, Folk Lords), but a couple others were started this month. I actually prefer finite series to ongoings at this point in my life, and if any ongoings really catch my eye, I can check them out when they hit Marvel Unlimited or DC Universe, or if a trade of them hits Hoopla and decide if I want to keep reading it or purchase it (usually as a trade rather than adding to my monthly buy list).
I still think this is a golden age for comics content-there's lots of new and interesting stuff (most of it non- big-2 super-hero) out there, there is so much of the past output available in some format or other (dollar reprints, facsimile editions, trades, etc.), and there is such a thriving small press community outside Diamond distribution (via Kickstarter as Crimebuster mentioned, or available at most comic cons artists alleys or via the creators directly through other social media) that you can discover now due to the internet that wasn't available in decades past where you really had to work to find small press stuff or to get it a path to market, that I find it hard not to find something (new or old) that doesn't pique my interest and make me want to support and read it.
But to each their own (and you should still get off my lawn, unless you are bringing me interesting comics to read).
-M
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