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Post by Batflunkie on Mar 29, 2020 21:03:05 GMT -5
The True Believers reprints aren't great, but they do serve a purpose. I've bought some of them so I can read old stories when I can't begin to afford the original books (such as early ASM), and in the case of a book like New Mutants #98, I was able to sell the original for over $400 but still have the story in my collection if I ever am so inclined to read it again. Yep, True Believers is my spare copy drag around and read anywhere issues and issues that are out of my cost range. The only nice thing about the reprints is the lack of ads found inside and that the better printing can show off the artwork in a stronger way than newsprint ever did. It does take some getting used to the bolder color but i can live with that for the cost and convenience. What's funny is that sometimes reprints can either garner some cash or hold their value. Like for instance, Dollar General had some b&w reprints of classic Marvel titles some years ago that solid for like a buck. They now go for roughly $20, give or take Not that I care really, but it's just bizarre to me what's considered "valuable" and what isn't
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Post by corona on May 12, 2020 13:38:41 GMT -5
If you're as old as I am (born 1950) the major change I have seen the flooded marketplace (too many titles, variations of characters, etc.) Marvel and DC basically exist as IP/trademark farms. The numerous volume restarts (#1's), one-shots, mini-series, etc make my mind numb from the collector/reader's POV. I never signed up for that!
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 12, 2020 13:47:10 GMT -5
If you're as old as I am (born 1950) the major change I have seen the flooded marketplace (too many titles, variations of characters, etc.) Marvel and DC basically exist as IP/trademark farms. The numerous volume restarts (#1's), one-shots, mini-series, etc make my mind numb from the collector/reader's POV. I never signed up for that!They aren't aimed at you.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 13, 2020 8:58:00 GMT -5
I've lost track of what goes on in the Marvel universe... Is there still such a thing as a continuous Marvel history, or are new stories just written as their own thing, which could be seen as soft reboots?
Not judging either way... just curious about what goes on these days. The titles I see advertised often seem to be set in a quasi MCU, and only partially related to the MU from the pre-movie era.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jun 13, 2020 20:31:01 GMT -5
I've lost track of what goes on in the Marvel universe... Is there still such a thing as a continuous Marvel history, or are new stories just written as their own thing, which could be seen as soft reboots? Not judging either way... just curious about what goes on these days. The titles I see advertised often seem to be set in a quasi MCU, and only partially related to the MU from the pre-movie era. I pretty much gave up Marvel Comics around 2002--basically the end of the Heroes Return era. I came back and enjoyed Annihilation, Planet Hulk and Brubaker's Captain America, but the truth is that the Marvel Universe proper (a fairly strong continuity that held together since the early 60's, strong characterizations, etc.) hasn't really existed for a long time. My personal cut off date is 1991 when Claremont was unceremoniously booted from The X-Men, but that's another discussion. What they seem to do now is ride the historically cache of "The Marvel Universe" while shoehorning What If? and professional fan-fic ideas into what should be main continuity. It's clearly what modern creators and editors want to do with the characters, and I suppose what the modern minuscule readership wants, but I can't honestly say that any of it is lighting the world on fire and will be remembered decades from now. I'm certainly not saying that nothing good has been done since 2002, but much of it seems to have an implicit cynicism and fatalism to it (in regards to Marvel history) that usually turns me off.
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,867
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Post by shaxper on Jun 14, 2020 13:31:14 GMT -5
If you're as old as I am (born 1950) the major change I have seen the flooded marketplace (too many titles, variations of characters, etc.) Marvel and DC basically exist as IP/trademark farms. The numerous volume restarts (#1's), one-shots, mini-series, etc make my mind numb from the collector/reader's POV. I never signed up for that!They aren't aimed at you. Isn't that part of the problem, though? If older readers are being alienated, and newer readers aren't flocking to LCSes in large numbers, they're limiting themselves quite a bit, there. And, even if they are attracting a large swath of new readers, when you don't treat your loyal customers with any consideration, that doesn't seem like a sound way to do business. I quit new comics back in 2011 after feeling pretty much the same alienation.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 14, 2020 13:59:08 GMT -5
I haven't bought anything from Marvel but Iron Man for a while now (2 years+)... there doesn't seem to be any continuity between titles outside the official events. In between, it's just whatever.
Basically, they seem to 'nothing with ever be the same' in a big event, then the next event puts everything back.
Dan Slott's Iron Man run, for instance, spent 2 years establishing that Arno should really be Iron Man now, and that 'Tony Stark' is really just an AI that used to think he was Tony Stark. Somehow at the end of the '2020' arc, it'll all be back to normal as a new writer gets to start from the usual status quo, break it, and put it back.
Protection of IPs have really pretty much ruined any chance for good stories, IMO.
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Post by impulse on Jun 15, 2020 9:58:31 GMT -5
While I understand the buying habits and underlying economic conditions have changed over the decades, that still doesn't make the current situation tenable nor does it mean they could not do it better. Since the periodical-comic-buying niche market is so small and only shrinking, I would think not driving away members faster than necessary would be prudent.
For me personally, and echoing comments of others I've seen so not just me, the combination of rising prices, decompression and increasingly-numerous-yet-redundant issues accelerated my leaving the hobby. Look, I get that behind the 4th wall, the economic realities are going to impact the stories. You need to structure stories for the 6-issue trade format? Okay, fine. You need to have more issues and number ones to get interest? If you must, but at least put in effort and respect me.
When I really started to sour on Marvel, it wasn't just because there was another big event with tie-ins. It was that there were so many tie-in one-offs and minis that added literally nothing. They were redundant with the main story and one another. Nothing of any impact or import happened. The events themselves were increasingly plot-driven and disrespected the characters. Even outside of events, there was a glut of titles with no clear purpose or separate identities, repeating the same characters. Combined with the decompression, it became too convoluted and expensive to try and follow increasingly less-substantive stories.
i.e. they wasted my time and money, and I did not like that.
Yeah, niche hobbies are smaller markets that have to charge more to sell a specific audience a specific thing they want, so you have to pay more, but my point is, they are no longer selling what the audience* wants, so they are losing some of that market.
*some of the audience, like me and Taxi etc. Obviously a lot of the other audience is still buying it, but if they were anything like me before I dropped, a lot were doing it out of habit/collector mentality/still getting some diminishing enjoyment/hope it would improve again.
All that said, I was probably going to drop at some point anyway. I largely aged out of most of the stuff I grew up on (not to call people who still read it childish, just speaking life stage and cycles for me) and shifting time and financial priorities.
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Post by impulse on Jun 15, 2020 10:06:00 GMT -5
Oh, a side note on the topic of shared universe - how much to connect and not. There is a balance to strike between being so disconnected as to not ever interact or mention anything else going on versus needing to buy every issue Marvel publishes to know what's going on.
I live in a neighborhood with let's say 100 houses. I don't need to know what every single person in every house is doing every single day. But if a giant van rolled in, two dozen clowns got out with paint sprayers and painted 10 of the houses with red, blue, yellow and green gigantic phalluses, honked their horn which loudly played La Cucaracha in horns, and drove off, everyone's going to at least hear about it. The people whose houses were painted or who witnessed it directly will have more to say and do about it, i.e. reporting it, getting their houses painted, etc. Neighbors who live nearby will point and comment and chat about it and maybe speculate who did it and why, and then move on. The kids who live down the way will laugh about it and then go do something else.
I think a workable and plausible balance would be pretty easy to maintain with the equivalent of a show-runner (an editor I suppose) with a modicum of common sense.
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Post by Batflunkie on Jun 15, 2020 11:02:54 GMT -5
They aren't aimed at you. Isn't that part of the problem, though? If older readers are being alienated, and newer readers aren't flocking to LCSes in large numbers, they're limiting themselves quite a bit, there. And, even if they are attracting a large swath of new readers, when you don't treat your loyal customers with any consideration, that doesn't seem like a sound way to do business. I quit new comics back in 2011 after feeling pretty much the same alienation. I think the idea of trying to attract new readers is a perpetual black hole. They get interested in comics by seeing Marvel movies and then hunt down a nearby comic book store, only to learn that they have read and or buy hundreds of comics to just to catch up.
The continual "refresh" of new number 1's probably don't help either
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Post by rberman on Jun 15, 2020 12:39:18 GMT -5
Some stories are told because a writer had something to say. Others are told to meet a publishing quota. As long as the industry has a continuous influx of new writers, these two motives can complement each other. But for a long time now, most stories at Marvel and DC are just meeting a quota. New characters and new scenarios are rare. Add to that the Stagnant/shrinking fan base that has already heard these stories, and everybody except completist collectors will drop out. Not to mention all the societal changes in media consumption since the 1960s.
I was amazed to hear that Chuck E Cheese was only now going bankrupt, given that the arcade games of its lifeblood peaked and then died in the early 1980s. Likewise with comic books. It is surprising the industry made it this long, considering how little media consumption involves paper for anyone under 40. The relative success of Dogman and the like is still nothing compared to generations past.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2020 13:10:05 GMT -5
The continual "refresh" of new number 1's probably don't help either
Yep, almost every other year, a new 'Volume' of X-Men, I've lost count. And each #1 has 20-50 variants.
Enough.
The only way I pick these up...a nice auction with books at a fraction of cover. Otherwise I couldn't care less anymore.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 15, 2020 22:27:46 GMT -5
I think the mindset of 'I have to start at the beginning' is actually a big problem for Marvel and DC. IN today's streaming world. people my daughter's age (she's 20) and younger are absolutely horrified at the thought of watching a show or reading books out of order, and can't conceive of the concept of not having access to do so.
People my age (45) and older, we still remember the pre-netflix/go tot he store and buy the season days.. you watched what was on TV, and if you missed an episode, you hoped to catch it in re-runs someday.
Comics are exactly those things... no matter how many new #1 they slap on the comics. people know Spider-Man didn't just start... and they think 'that might be cool, but I can't start at the beginning, so forget it'.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jun 15, 2020 23:09:54 GMT -5
The continual "refresh" of new number 1's probably don't help either Yep, almost every other year, a new 'Volume' of X-Men, I've lost count. And each #1 has 20-50 variants.
Enough. I never thought I'd see the day you'd admit to being sick of variants
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 12:10:56 GMT -5
I never thought I'd see the day you'd admit to being sick of variants
When there are variants of the variant...and everyone and their dog is doing one....it's just overdone lol.
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