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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 15:04:10 GMT -5
Thanks for this, mrp. You do get to the heart of these matters. A shrinking niche market in niche shops sounds apocalyptic (I agree, that's not a criticism).
You articulate these things in a clear, concise manner every time. If DC and Marvel came to you right now, and you could give them three tips, what would they be?
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Post by rberman on Sept 30, 2019 15:11:22 GMT -5
It must be simply that Disney and Warner Brothers are not interested in being in the publishing business. If they were, they would start a publishing imprint, round up a bunch of creators whose work is in the ballpark of what's selling well on that chart, and put their promotional muscle behind it. They haven't because they don't want to, and they don't feel the comic book industry has anything to do with it. They may well be right, though the test would be to make some Dog Man type books starring established super heroes, and see how they do.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Sept 30, 2019 21:30:44 GMT -5
DC's doing a bit to try and get into this business, they had that Mera book and I just recently saw one about Bruce Wayne that looked to be in a similar vane. I wonder how those did?
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Post by thwhtguardian on Oct 1, 2019 5:52:39 GMT -5
DC's doing a bit to try and get into this business, they had that Mera book and I just recently saw one about Bruce Wayne that looked to be in a similar vane. I wonder how those did? These are what started as the Ink/Zoom lines though they have abandoned those labels. They aren't doing well in the direct market, but that's not surprising, but I don't know the Bookscan numbers. I know the Raven book sold out, and has gone back to multiple printings already. -M One hopes they are doing well. I haven't tried one yet, though they do look nice. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2019 11:40:46 GMT -5
1) get out of the publishing business-focus on creating content and have your corporate parents work out a deal to partner with a big market publisher to produce that content as a product that sells in the mass market. 2) do not ignore the young adult market, it is the biggest growth market in publishing and one where comic sales are booming 3) focus on what works in the 21st century market, not what worked in the mid-20th century. It's a different time and a different marketplace and success strategies for the old don't necessarily work in the current, but don't change just for the sake of change-be honest in evaluating what works and what doesn't-keep what does and jettison what doesn't-don't keep something just because it's always been done that way but also don't throw the baby out with the bathwater just because, be objective and scrupulous in finding what works and what doesn't, not just what you want to work and what you don't think will work. for all of these, sometimes outside eyes and a fresh perspective works but sometimes you want someone who knows the in and outs, use evaluations from both insiders and outsiders, but have someone objective making final decisions who is not tainted by either nostalgia or futurism -M Interesting. On that third point, is there anything specific you are thinking about? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2019 13:08:03 GMT -5
1) get out of the publishing business-focus on creating content and have your corporate parents work out a deal to partner with a big market publisher to produce that content as a product that sells in the mass market. 2) do not ignore the young adult market, it is the biggest growth market in publishing and one where comic sales are booming 3) focus on what works in the 21st century market, not what worked in the mid-20th century. It's a different time and a different marketplace and success strategies for the old don't necessarily work in the current, but don't change just for the sake of change-be honest in evaluating what works and what doesn't-keep what does and jettison what doesn't-don't keep something just because it's always been done that way but also don't throw the baby out with the bathwater just because, be objective and scrupulous in finding what works and what doesn't, not just what you want to work and what you don't think will work. for all of these, sometimes outside eyes and a fresh perspective works but sometimes you want someone who knows the in and outs, use evaluations from both insiders and outsiders, but have someone objective making final decisions who is not tainted by either nostalgia or futurism -M Interesting. On that third point, is there anything specific you are thinking about? formats, serialization vs. selling complete stories, anthology vs. single title, retail partners i.e. where and how you sell comics, pricing, how you pay creators-page rate vs. advances and royalties; never-ending stories vs. finite arcs for characters-i.e. stories with definitive beginning, middle, and end, ongoing vs. season format, target audience, house art styles, trade dress, strategies to create evergreen sellers vs, continually pushing new material of varying quality (i.e. quality vs. quantity of stories), etc. etc. etc. -M |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2019 14:06:36 GMT -5
I'm asking questions because I am interested in your view. It is hard to see what they should do, what they should stick with, what they should bring back, what they shouldn't bring back, etc.
I know from Facebook conversations - and, yes, social media is a bubble - that there are a lot of people put off modern comics because of the long-running arcs. A Facebook friend told me he wants to read "War of the Realms", but finds it daunting. He also told me he's fed up with titles he follows suddenly having to stop everything and become a tie-in for the ubiqitous Marvel events (and same with DC).
I also have to question how you can bring in new readers when there aren't necessarily any standalone tales. Would I have picked up DC Comics Presents if the story had tied into Superman, Action Comics, Justice League of America, etc?
You've done many good posts over time that examine comics through the wider context of business. I can't help but think that there's a middle ground somewhere. I'm not saying Marvel and DC return to the days of totally standalone tales, but at the same time, 6-issue "written for the trade" arcs shouldn't necessarily be the norm, especially when they have 9,998,383,750,000 tie-in issues.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2019 14:31:05 GMT -5
I'm asking questions because I am interested in your view. It is hard to see what they should do, what they should stick with, what they should bring back, what they shouldn't bring back, etc. I know from Facebook conversations - and, yes, social media is a bubble - that there are a lot of people put off modern comics because of the long-running arcs. A Facebook friend told me he wants to read "War of the Realms", but finds it daunting. He also told me he's fed up with titles he follows suddenly having to stop everything and become a tie-in for the ubiqitous Marvel events (and same with DC). I also have to question how you can bring in new readers when there aren't necessarily any standalone tales. Would I have picked up DC Comics Presents if the story had tied into Superman, Action Comics, Justice League of America, etc? You've done many good posts over time that examine comics through the wider context of business. I can't help but think that there's a middle ground somewhere. I'm not saying Marvel and DC return to the days of totally standalone tales, but at the same time, 6-issue "written for the trade" arcs shouldn't necessarily be the norm, especially when they have 9,998,383,750,000 tie-in issues. A longer epic isn't an issue if it's not sold in periodical format but in a standalone volume. The issue of standalone stories vs. longer arcs only remains an issue if you continue selling comics as serialized periodicals. Series fiction sells well, but each installment usually tells a story in and of itself, except in comics. Books, movies, TV series all succeed in serialized fiction with no problems gaining new readers jumping on, but the difference is they don't sell fractions of stories that don't stand on their own while comics do. Each episode, book, or film is a complete chapter of a story, not a fraction of the story that cannot stand on its own. Also, previous installments are usually readily available and clearly indicated what order they should be experienced (by season for TV, by volume in the series for films and books, etc. so there is no market confusion. Also each tv episode (the closest to the way comics serializes stories) usually includes a previously on show x clip at the beginning to refresh readers memory or catch up new readers. They all also work towards a complete story with beginning middle and definitive end at some point so readers/viewers know that there will be an eventual payoff for the story. A story that never ends never offers a reader/viewer a sense of completion or satisfaction. A story without consequences for its characters isn't much of a story after all. Maintaining a perpetual status quo with a never ending story is not going to draw audiences in and get them to invest whether its written for the trade or standalone issues. It's just plain not good storytelling. Even if you look at the stories featuring super-heroes in other mediums-movies and TV, they are serialized stories but they build towards a pay-off and there are consequences for the characters. Seasons of tv shows build towards a climax and that climax impacts the characters moving forward. The status quo changes. Movies, even the Marvel movies, build towards big payoffs and those payoffs change the characters moving forward. There is no never ending story with a perpetual status quo that only temporarily changes for an arc or three and then reverts. That undermines the effectiveness and impact of any story you might try to tell and frustrates and alienates audiences. These are the types of things that need to be looked at and evaluated by direct market comic publishers. Why is it that millions love Marvel and DC stories in movies and tv and only a handful of tens or thousands follow them in printed periodical format? Is it just that people don't want to read or buy monthly periodicals or is it in the manner of storytelling using those characters that attracts or repels potential audience? What is it about the way Iron Man's story was told in the MCU that resonated with audiences while his story in comics currently only draws 30-50K readers if that? Is it format? Is it price? Is it complete stories vs. serialized? Or is it in the type of storytelling and the goals of the storytelling itself? A lot of it is people looking and arguing about symptoms rather than trying to dig into what the root causes are. Single issue vs. writing for trade is a symptom, a surface issue and changing it won't make much of a difference if the root causes aren't identified and dealt with. Maybe it moves the needle from 30-50K to 40-60K, but that's a negligible result when millions are composing the audience in other medium and won't do much to make print periodical comics more viable as a product. What is the root cause of the audience size discrepancy between mediums? That is the issue that needs to be dissected and examined objectively, but it's largely being ignored over more cosmetic issues. -M |
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Post by The Captain on Oct 1, 2019 15:03:51 GMT -5
Not surprised "Guts" is #1. I bought two copies of it myself, one for each of my girls, and I picked them up at my LCS while I was getting my weekly books.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2019 15:06:52 GMT -5
Not surprised "Guts " is #1. I bought two copies of it myself, one for each of my girls, and I picked them up at my LCS while I was getting my weekly books. Which is ironic in a sense because Diamond sales are not counted in those Bookscan sales numbers Publishers weekly uses. -M |
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Post by The Captain on Oct 1, 2019 15:19:45 GMT -5
Not surprised "Guts " is #1. I bought two copies of it myself, one for each of my girls, and I picked them up at my LCS while I was getting my weekly books. Which is ironic in a sense because Diamond sales are not counted in those Bookscan sales numbers Publishers weekly uses. -M I did not know that, but I don't have the understanding of the industry like you do. All I know is that my girls love Raina Telgemeier's work and I buy them the new books pretty much the moment I see them in stores. |
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