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Post by Action Ace on Mar 31, 2016 17:00:46 GMT -5
Two-Tone is hilarious! They should bring him back and team him up with the Polka-Dot Man or the Zodiac Master. Legion of Substitute Heroes Reserve member Double Header could visit from the future. Also, another great cover by Michael Golden! |
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Post by shaxper on Mar 31, 2016 17:59:26 GMT -5
Also, another great cover by Michael Golden! They really are breathtaking. I just wish the cover art had some relationship to the interior stories. |
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Post by byronlomax on Apr 1, 2016 15:57:02 GMT -5
Another excellent Milligan issue. And yes, someone definitely should bring Stiletto back!
I love the covers from around this time - especially Golden's, but George Pratt and Scott Hampton do some good ones too. Mostly "character just posing" pictures, but they're fantastic. And they work really nicely with the then-new Detective Comics logo, which is probably still my favourite.
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Post by shaxper on Apr 1, 2016 16:14:54 GMT -5
Another excellent Milligan issue. And yes, someone definitely should bring Stiletto back! I looked him up today and was astonished to see no one has ever brought him back! |
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Post by Hoosier X on Apr 1, 2016 16:58:02 GMT -5
Another excellent Milligan issue. And yes, someone definitely should bring Stiletto back! I looked him up today and was astonished to see no one has ever brought him back! Well, they never brought back Two-Tone either! What do you expect? |
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Post by shaxper on Apr 1, 2016 19:27:25 GMT -5
I looked him up today and was astonished to see no one has ever brought him back! Well, they never brought back Two-Tone either! What do you expect? You are really attached to that guy. |
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Post by chadwilliam on Apr 1, 2016 19:45:26 GMT -5
It's been a few years since I last re-read this one, but I don't recall Stiletto's ability to get people to sympathize/side with him to be anything more than the result of his being an extremely charming, persuasive fellow. He's just one of those rare people who can charm anyone. I think it's an important distinction since Batman's internal conflict isn't the result of some trick on Stiletto's part but a genuine inability to wrap his head around the situation he's found himself in. I like the sitting and staring at the clock bit as well - again, awhile since I've read it, but I remember getting the sense that the moment illustrated Batman's acceptance of the fact that in this case, he didn't resolve the ambiguity of his thoughts and feelings and simply resigned himself to acting as a tool for the law. The passivity of that final scene reflected that.
And the bi-racial Two-Tone reminds of The Thing with Two Heads film from the 1970's - although in this one, it's a two-headed guy born out of a head transplant where a racist white guy finds his head attached to that of a black man.
I'm actually glad that no ones brought these characters back - I'd be fine with Milligan returning to them, but anyone else? I don't think so. |
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Post by shaxper on Apr 1, 2016 19:53:13 GMT -5
It's been a few years since I last re-read this one, but I don't recall Stiletto's ability to get people to sympathize/side with him to be anything more than the result of his being an extremely charming, persuasive fellow. Gordon outright indicates it's "supernatural," and in one of the scans I provided above, he convinces Batman to enjoy the beating he is giving him; doesn't sound like something someone could naturally persuade Batman to do. I wish I had extracted that meaning from it. If that's what Milligan was going for, he wasn't very clear about it. Never would I have suspected, while writing this review, that Two-Tone would end up being the center of the conversation! |
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Post by Hoosier X on Apr 1, 2016 20:15:09 GMT -5
Two-Tone should officially be considered Batman's stupidest villain. And when you consider how many lame villains Batman has fought over the years, THAT'S PRETTY AWESOME!
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Post by shaxper on Apr 1, 2016 20:16:26 GMT -5
Two-Tone should officially be considered Batman's stupidest villain. And when you consider how many lame villains Batman has fought over the years, THAT'S PRETTY AWESOME! Stupider than Calendar Man or Crazy Quilt? Never. |
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Post by foxley on Apr 1, 2016 20:30:52 GMT -5
Two-Tone should officially be considered Batman's stupidest villain. And when you consider how many lame villains Batman has fought over the years, THAT'S PRETTY AWESOME! Stupider than Calendar Man or Crazy Quilt? Never. Mere pretenders when compared to the utterly awesome Dodo Man! (Go ahead. Look him up. I'll wait.) |
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Post by shaxper on Apr 1, 2016 20:40:38 GMT -5
Stupider than Calendar Man or Crazy Quilt? Never. Mere pretenders when compared to the utterly awesome Dodo Man! (Go ahead. Look him up. I'll wait.) Completely forgot about the Dodo Man. He was the most forgettable part of that absurd issue! Synopsis for Batman #303 Batman is struck on the head by a rock while fighting the Dodo Man, a crook with a psychotic urge to steal anything related to dodos, in the Museum of Natural History. The blow reverses his identity-switching impulse, so that he battles criminals as Bruce Wayne and appears in civilian life as Batman. He cannot understand the commotion he raises by doing so. Alfred consults his doctor and learns that the cure may be placing Batman back where he was hit by the rock. Thus, he places a bat-transmitter bug in the Natural History Museum under a stuffed dodo's wing. When Bruce Wayne tracks it down, his reversed-identity impulse is corrected and he dons his Batman uniform. As Batman, he intercepts the Dodo Man trying to steal the stuffed dodo, and captures him. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Apr 1, 2016 22:45:16 GMT -5
Two-Tone should officially be considered Batman's stupidest villain. And when you consider how many lame villains Batman has fought over the years, THAT'S PRETTY AWESOME! Stupider than Calendar Man or Crazy Quilt? Never. Well, if you're talking about Calendar Man as written by Jeph Loeb, then I agree with you. As for Crazy Quilt, I thought he was very chilling when he almost beat Jason Todd to death long before it was fashionable. |
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Post by shaxper on Apr 1, 2016 22:52:09 GMT -5
As for Crazy Quilt, I thought he was very chilling when he almost beat Jason Todd to death long before it was fashionable. Yes, but a big part of the point was that he should have been a ridiculous opponent for Robin; it's just that Jason was totally unprepared. |
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Post by chadwilliam on Apr 1, 2016 23:17:02 GMT -5
It's been a few years since I last re-read this one, but I don't recall Stiletto's ability to get people to sympathize/side with him to be anything more than the result of his being an extremely charming, persuasive fellow. Gordon outright indicates it's "supernatural," and in one of the scans I provided above, he convinces Batman to enjoy the beating he is giving him; doesn't sound like something someone could naturally persuade Batman to do. I wish I had extracted that meaning from it. If that's what Milligan was going for, he wasn't very clear about it. Never would I have suspected, while writing this review, that Two-Tone would end up being the center of the conversation!
I just re-read the issue and wow - you're absolutely right about Calvino's ability being some sort of super power. Man, I bought this when it came out, must have re-read it a couple dozen times at least since then, and that bit - so central to the character - slipped my notice. Not that I missed all the anecdotes about "once talking a victim into holding his knife for him while he used the john and then killed him"; needing to be kept in a "soundproof box"; Gordon's statement that he's "supernaturally persuasive"; it's just that if I let myself accept the fact that Stiletto has some such ability (and isn't simply the "world's nicest killer" as the story put it) then things fall apart for me.
I had read this as a story in which a crime fighter who has sworn to never willingly take a human life has to consider the moral ambiguity inherent in turning a killer (who only kills criminals) over so that he can be executed. Calvino is also given a moment where he saves Batman's life. There are several moments where Batman thinks about how close he is to setting Calvino free and how relieved he is that Stiletto's ability to speak has been inferred with for whatever reason (namely when they're submerged underwater). Now this is where things go south for me. If Batman is on the verge of letting Calvino go because the killer is forcing him to confront certain truths Batman had either ignored or put in the back of his mind before, then that's compelling. If however (as is the case) Calvino simply possesses a sort of super-hypnosis which Batman has to fight against, then where is the internal conflict on Batman's part? He isn't thinking to himself "I've sworn to uphold the law, but how can I when doing so conflicts with my principles" but "don't fall under his spell don't fall under his spell don't fall under his..." instead. So why bother having Batman owe his life to Calvino, being sympathetic to his situation, etc. if it isn't on the merits of these considerations that Batman's preparing his defense?
Also, how is Batman able to fight off Stiletto's influence anyway? The same guy who once convinced a guy to help him kill him didn't stand a chance, so why does Batman? I suppose Calvino's power might work best if he's given enough time with somebody except, doesn't he convince a guy to let him steal a bus after only knowing him for a few seconds? Yeah, I know, "because he's Batman", but that's a crutch for a lesser writer.
And why was Calvino even put in a position where he was able to ask a guy to let him go to the washroom unattended before his execution if his powers are well known? Shouldn't he at least have been wearing a muzzle or something?
It's strange to me that Milligan had a perfectly believable and interesting character for use in his tale and instead just added on a super power which not only wasn't necessary, but in my opinion, lessened the story.
Oh, and it wasn't Two-Tone that stood out as the most visually grotesque thing in this story, but that baseball sized bruise Batman sports after getting kicked in the face.
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