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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2020 8:05:58 GMT -5
The WrestleMania IV world title tournament is the worst tournament in WWF history. There, I said it.
I love tournaments. One of the most underrated tournaments for me is King of the Ring 1994. Who doesn't love a good tournament, either on TV or PPV? Love them!
I first saw the WrestleMania IV tournament on VHS 3 years after it was released. Now, I do think that wrestling tournaments should at least pretend to be about every participant even if, in this case, you knew One Man Gang wasn't going to walk out of Atlantic City as WWF Champion. But the WM IV tournament was a four-man show (Hogan, Andre, Savage, DiBiase). Every other tournament match felt like an afterthought. And that wasn't good. At least with something like King of the Ring 1994, it felt like there was a good chance each participant had a chance, whether it be Bam Bam Bigelow, Jeff Jarrett, Owen Hart or Tatanka (at the time, WWF Magazine was advocating a Tatanka win).
But there seemed to be little point to the WM IV tournament. Hogan, Andre, Savage and DiBiase were gonna be involved in the finale, one way or another.
It was a cumbersome tournament. Hand on heart, did anyone really care about the matches other than Savage's wins and the finale? Jake Roberts and Rick Rude had a good match, but it ended in a draw.
Also, one thing I hated about tournaments during the Federation Era was that they kept to the face/heel confrontations. Occasionally they didn't (Bret Hart and Mr. Perfect were both faces when they battled at King of the Ring 1993), but the WM IV tournament was predictable. And tedious. They should have mixed up faces and heels a bit, e.g. had Rick Rude battle One Man Gang or a face vs face confrontation such as Randy Savage vs Bam Bam Bigelow.
It followed a predictable formula. And the PPV featured first round, quarterfinals, semifinals and final. I think the first round and quarterfinals should have been held on TV. After all, the King of the Ring PPVs had the first-round matches on TV).
If I could have booked the WM IV tournament, the result would have been the same, but the path would have been different.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2020 8:29:30 GMT -5
WrestleMania IV world title tournament --- was the worst and I had a friend of mine saw it in person and it was too darn predictable and he told me that Rick Rude and Jake Roberts match ended a draw --- he screamed bloody murder. He wasted four hours of his life and never be able to get it back.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2020 9:10:41 GMT -5
There was a certain logic to the tournament, e.g. Savage wrestling four matches while Ted DiBiase only wrestled three due to a bye in the semifinals. Same was done at King of the Ring 1993 where Bam Bam Bigelow got a bye while Bret had to wrestle three matches in one night.
But as a whole, it was a cumbersome, unwieldy mess. It was the first PPV I'd seen which had me looking at my watch.
There were some good moments on the PPV. I like the Warrior/Hercules match. I like the battle royal. And Jesse Ventura made me smile. After Hogan had been disqualified, and celebrated, Ventura shouted, "I've never seen a guy so ecstatic about being knocked out of a tournament!"
Mostly, though, the PPV doesn't work for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2020 12:45:54 GMT -5
Question for anyone who knows: Goldberg hurt people in the ring (unintentionally). I know some wrestlers were said to be stiff (Vader, Bubba Ray Dudley, etc). But is there anyone besides Goldberg who acquired a reputation for hurting people unintentionally? And didn't Vader break the back of a preliminary wrestler once or was that kayfabe? I can't recall.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2020 13:26:48 GMT -5
Question for anyone who knows: Goldberg hurt people in the ring (unintentionally). I know some wrestlers were said to be stiff (Vader, Bubba Ray Dudley, etc). But is there anyone besides Goldberg who acquired a reputation for hurting people unintentionally? And didn't Vader break the back of a preliminary wrestler once or was that kayfabe? I can't recall. According to what I heard from Bret Hart that Goldberg did hurt him in the way that gave him a bad concession and all and knowing that he wanted to get out of professional wrestling because of that. I had a friend that saw Goldberg in WCW and he's so brutal that he was shocked to see it. The others ... that you listed I don't know a thing about it. In another interview from the Hit Man, that Bret thinks that Goldberg should not be in the Hall of Fame because of the nature of Goldberg's wrestling style and all that ... this is all I know and I just don't care for his spear of his and now I just having doubts about him.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2020 15:57:41 GMT -5
I was quite saddened at the way Bret Hart's career ended.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 11, 2020 22:39:16 GMT -5
The Vader thing is not true. He did injure a prelim guy, though not a broken back.
The Rockers paralyzed a prelim guy in the WWF and had a rep for sloppiness.
Ahmed Johnson was also known for sloppiness and hurt people.
The Steiners were notorious for beating up prelim and Japanese wrestlers, particularly "young boys" (rookies). They tossed them like sacks of potatoes, with no regard to protecting them.
In most cases, injuries occurred from mistakes, rather than intent. "Stiff" varies according to who is defining it. Some guys laid it in, to make it look real, while others knew how to work and could make the most brutal looking punches actually feel like a gentle tap.
Nature Boy Buddy Rogers was notorious for taking liberties and he got his comeuppance from Karl Gotch and Bill Miller. They cornered him backstage, he tried to slip past and got a door slammed on his hand.
Akira Maeda was known in Japan as a cheap shot artist. He kicked Satoru Sayama in the groin (actually the inner thigh, based on the footage I've seen) and was DQd in a match where he started shooting. He hit Riki Chosu in the head with a stiff kick, breaking the occipital bone and getting himself fired from New Japan. He and Andre had a match where Andre stopped cooperating with him, so he started throwing shoot kicks, before it was broken up (and Andre killed him).
Bret was injured by Goldberg; but, he may have suffered another concussion after, adding to things. He did an angle in a car and I thought I read in the Observer that he may have suffered further injury shooting the angle. he certainly was erratic in the shooting. Can't remember if he crashed into something or was just swerving.
Sad was what happened to Darren Drozdov, aka Droz, in the WWE. He and D-Lo Brown were in a match and Brown went to do a running powerbomb and his foot slipped on the mat and Droz came down on his neck, paralyzing him.
Mexican luchadors Oro anf Perro Aguayo Jr both died in the ring, after sustaining head and neck injuries in botched spots. Japanese women's wrestler Plum Mariko died after taking a Ligerbomb in a match. She had suffered multiple concussions in matches and shouldn't have been working; but, it is believed she had developed and abscess, which was triggered when she took the drop and resulted in a full hemorrhage. She died in the hospital, after the match.
Kensuke Sasaki allegedly killed a young trainee in the New Japan dojo. The wrestler had done his workout and there were higher ups visiting, so Sasaki, to impress the bosses, had him run through things again, and started yelling at the guy when he was exhausted. He supposedly threw him around the ring and the guy landed badly and was killed. The incident was hushed up as a training accident, though similar things have occurred in sumo dojos.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 0:47:04 GMT -5
Ahmed Johnson was also known for sloppiness and hurt people.
I saw him performed one time and he's one of the worst wrestler that I ever seen (live event) and my friend that went with me and Ahmed kept going and going to please the crowd and an inexperienced referee did not see everything and we were wondering what happen to the poor guy. He couldn't wrestle for another month and was okay ... according to my friend he quit the wrestling scene 3 months after that match and complained about Ahmed and Stevie Ray ... check out this clip ... complained about him.
He apparently left WWE and I really do not know the whole story and his ring work is so bad ... nothing short of pathetic. He is one of my least favorite wrestler in WWE.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 7:15:23 GMT -5
Didn't King Mabel injure (or almost injure) Diesel at SummerSlam 1995?
Regarding wrestling moves looking real, I was always impressed by Randy Savage's elbow drop. How on earth do you do that and make it look real?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 7:18:57 GMT -5
In 1989, Bret Hart had quite a few singles matches. At Survivor Series 1989, he was on one team while Jim Neidhart was on another. But it didn't feel like the team was entirely split up (obviously, they went their separate ways in 1991).
Anyone know the story behind Bret's singles push in 1989? It did seem half-hearted from the WWF's perspective because while he was clearly a singles competitor at times, he was still tied in to the Hart Foundation.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 8:21:40 GMT -5
Sadly, I don't know a thing about Savage's Elbow Drop, King Mabel is somewhat an unknown to me, and Bret Hart Single Push to Intercontinental and World's Titles was somewhat engineered by Vince McMahon until Shawn Michaels came along. I think that Bret was a hard man to deal with and took pride personally and that's led to the Montreal Screwjob and Michaels became WWF darling and all that. When, he went to WCW ... his career took a nosedive ... figure of speech and I did not care his appearances in WCW.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 8:47:12 GMT -5
WCW really screwed up with Hart. He had incredible momentum going in. The built-in audience for a Hart/Hogan match was there. So much potential, so many new opponents, so many opponents to revisit, etc. And what did they do with him? Nothing.
Not sure why the millennium had to end with Starrcade 1999's lame Hart/Goldberg match ending with Piper, as a ref, screwing Hart. Who expected that to draw money long-term or leave fans happy?
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 12, 2020 9:41:01 GMT -5
Didn't King Mabel injure (or almost injure) Diesel at SummerSlam 1995? Regarding wrestling moves looking real, I was always impressed by Randy Savage's elbow drop. How on earth do you do that and make it look real? Well, before he was jacked to the gills, he could execute it perfectly. Basically, he took a side bump with the elbow coming down after he hit the mat, so the impact was on his body, not his opponents. However, when he came back to WCW, after an injury, he was all roided up and could not execute it properly and injured ref Charles Robbins in an angle, when he pretty much landed with the elbow first, and his bodyweight behind it. Before he got so jacked, Savage could move like a cat and could pretty much hit any part of the ring he wanted. He started using steroids, at least, in late ICW, when he got involved in a bodybuilding contest (Rip Rogers beat him, in their division), but was noticeably bigger by the time he was in the WWF. However, it was that last stint in WCW where he had really bulked up, which probably contributed to his heart attack,.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 9:50:31 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 10:10:21 GMT -5
One of my favorite WCW wrestler and he was an original and has a tremendous will to fight.
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