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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 8:07:38 GMT -5
So, any thoughts on the late Miss Elizabeth? She did have a genuine presence even though she didn't get to speak much. She added something to the WWF, and I was a fan. It was tragic how her life ended. I must admit, I like it when she got to show a personality in WCW. Even under Russo's pen, it was at least good to see her speak, interact with others, do stuff, etc. And, of course, she had done some things prior to Russo's arrival. Perhaps sometimes you need to let a person's personality come out. Remember when Batista was a deacon or something to D-Von Dudley? I would never have looked at him and imagined a future world champion. Now, I am not comparing Batista and Elizabeth, I am merely saying that sometimes letting someone speak and shine may be better than simply having them be silent. She was a shot in the arm when she became Macho Man's Manager and gives us a new dimension in Pro Wrestling back then and she was really was the first queen in WWF ... I did not like the way WCW handled her back then and I felt she was being treated badly by them. I did not like the time that Ric Flair and Mr. Perfect abusing her and that's was a disgrace to me. I felt that she should been treated better and should had more personality and be more outspoken and I just felt that Macho Man should had protected her more. When the Mega Powers formed with Macho Man teaming up with Hulk Hogan ... I just felt that Miss Elisabeth would had a hard time dealing with two powerful personalities ...  Like, Paul Harvey said ... you'll the rest of the story. Time with WWF is sweet and innocent with problems that she could handle and sometimes with miserable results. Time with WCW is not my favorite ... and I had personal opinions about it and it's was not handled well. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 29, 2019 12:55:58 GMT -5
So, any thoughts on the late Miss Elizabeth? She did have a genuine presence even though she didn't get to speak much. She added something to the WWF, and I was a fan. It was tragic how her life ended. I must admit, I like it when she got to show a personality in WCW. Even under Russo's pen, it was at least good to see her speak, interact with others, do stuff, etc. And, of course, she had done some things prior to Russo's arrival. Perhaps sometimes you need to let a person's personality come out. Remember when Batista was a deacon or something to D-Von Dudley? I would never have looked at him and imagined a future world champion. Now, I am not comparing Batista and Elizabeth, I am merely saying that sometimes letting someone speak and shine may be better than simply having them be silent. This is how I first saw Miss Elizabeth, or Liz Hulette, as she was known then....... She worked as a receptionist at a gym, when Randy met her. Before that, he had been in a relationship with lady wrestler Debbie Combs, among others. First time I recalled seeing her on the program, she was conducting an behind-the-scenes interview with Leaping Lanny, then one with the Macho Man, which is the first time they showed him as more of a real person, not just a lunatic. This was when he was being slowly turned babyface and he does smile a lot in the interview. She then started doing the local show inserts, then, when they were no longer taping at the Lexington studios, she would do the opening of the show, while Lanny would do play-by-play f the matches, narrating over the tapes (not recorded live, at the arena). They would then have promo inserts (rather like how the WWA tv show had been done, when Angelo worked there). When she was brought out as Randy's new manager, in the WWF, I immediately knew who she was. That clip will show you why she rarely talked on camera. She wasn't a natural at it and was rather shy; plus, her Kentucky accent, though it wasn't as heavy as some in that state (or Southern Illinois and Indiana, for that matter). Plus, it kept a bit of mystery around her. Liz and Randy had a complicated marriage; but, I do believe they genuinely loved one another, though she divorced him and remarried. That marriage ended and she came back to wrestling. That was a mistake, if you ask me, but she had grown to love the attention. She ended up in a relationship with Lex Luger, who was married at the time, and he set her up in a condo. Not a good situation. She was also messed up on booze and pills, which is one of the hazards about being in wrestling, especially WCW. Randy may have been controlling; but, he kept her away from that stuff, in the WWF. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 29, 2019 13:03:27 GMT -5
ps Vince wanted to give Randy a female valet and they were going to hire someone when Randy suggested Liz, and the rest is history. They really glammed her up, compared to what you saw on the ICW tv. She was always a very attractive woman; but, they had professional hair and makeup people do her up and they put her in high end outfits, which set her apart from most valet/managers in wrestling, at the time, like Sunshine, Missy Hyatt, Precious, Baby Doll or Angel (Rick Rude's valet, in Memphis), or Nancy Sullivan (later benoit) as the Fallen Angel, in Florida.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 14:36:09 GMT -5
Excellent video, Cody, thanks!
Did Elizabeth lose her accent as time went on? I heard her speak a few times on WWF TV. Only briefly. I think once was during a conversation with Mean Gene. In WCW, where she spoke more, her accent seemed less strong.
I was ecstatic when she returned at WrestleMania VII. At school, we were all chatting about the big moments. Some mentioned the Hart Foundation's tag title loss to the Nasty Boys (that irked me big-time!). Others mentioned Hogan winning his third WWF Championship. Or Andre the Giant's return. But many of us were chatting about Elizabeth's return. Big surprise pulled off well.
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 29, 2019 20:01:56 GMT -5
Excellent video, Cody, thanks! Did Elizabeth lose her accent as time went on? I heard her speak a few times on WWF TV. Only briefly. I think once was during a conversation with Mean Gene. In WCW, where she spoke more, her accent seemed less strong. I was ecstatic when she returned at WrestleMania VII. At school, we were all chatting about the big moments. Some mentioned the Hart Foundation's tag title loss to the Nasty Boys (that irked me big-time!). Others mentioned Hogan winning his third WWF Championship. Or Andre the Giant's return. But many of us were chatting about Elizabeth's return. Big surprise pulled off well. I think she softened it, though it wasn't as heavy an accent as Jim Cornette's or the real Kentucky "hillbillies." At the same time, she rarely spoke, so you didn't get a strong impression of her speaking voice. It was usually kept to a few words. Her return and attack on Sherri Martel was great and Sherri told her to lay it in and she sold it. Viceland's Dark Side of the Ring has an episode devoted to Miss Elizabeth; but, no one involved really knew Liz before the WWF, except Lanny, who didn't really talk about the couple in ICW or Memphis, before Randy came to the WWF and debuted Elizabeth in the ring. Her other great ring moment is rather sextist, but its the tag match of Hogan and Macho vs DiBiase and Andre, at Summer Slam, where she rips off her skirt and the heels stand there stunned, allowing the faces to get the pin. Of course, the only thing showing was her legs, as Vince wasn't going to go further, at that point (and Randy would have never allowed it). Just imagine if it had been the attitude era; Vince probably would have pushed for her to flash her breasts (well, Russo would of, who booked her in stupid angles in WCW). More often than not, valets were wives and girlfriends of wrestlers and it rarely ended well. Being on the road, together so much was often detrimental. About the only one that survived wrestling was Jimmy Garvin and Precious, who is still married to Garvin. Chris Candido and Sunny remained together until his death; but, she fooled around on him horribly and was not discrete about it. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 7:17:57 GMT -5
Did Roddy Piper have any televised pinfall losses from 1984 to 1992 other than to Bret Hart at WrestleMania VIII?
His first tenure was, what, 1983 or early 1984 to 1987? And then 1989 to 1992. Other than the loss of the I-C championship to Hart, and I have watched a lot of WWF TV/PPV since the 80s, I cannot recall him being pinned once on TV. But he must have been, surely?
Speaking of Piper, I really liked his brief feud with Ted DiBiase (1991). It seemed very much like the working class hero vs the evil millionaire. Shades of Jake Roberts vs Ted DiBiase. Piper and DiBiase had a pretty solid match that was shown on Coliseum Video's World Tour 1991 tape.
I'm sad that he left the WWF in 1992. Losing Hogan, Piper and Jake Roberts on the same night (WM VIII) was a tough one. I wonder if that's why Undertaker was turned face, was it due to Hogan and Piper, the two biggest faces, leaving? Returning to Piper, though, I really missed him and was quite pleased he returned to face Jerry Lawler in 1994. But he appeared less and less until he signed with WCW. I may even have missed him more than I missed Hogan at times.
He truly was one of a kind. I'm pleased that he pursued movie projects. But then I imagine an alternate world where he was in the world title tournament at WrestleMania IV or really active during 1993/94.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 9:14:18 GMT -5
Did Roddy Piper have any televised pinfall losses from 1984 to 1992 other than to Bret Hart at WrestleMania VIII? Sadly, I really can't answer this question at all and I don't recall any televised pinfall losses during that time and I only saw Piper Pit and selected PPV's ... only Cody would know and this is one Superstar that I had a hard time keeping track of. He appeared in RAW about 41 shows and I probably seen 10 to 15 of them due to his Piper Pit segments that I enjoyed watching. I never, ever saw him in Smackdown and he appeared in 13 of them. I saw him in TNA Impact in 2004 and all three shows and barely remember them at all. He appeared in WCW Nitro 14 times and saw all of them and only 3 times on WCW Thunder and saw him once and that alone did not account to anything. He did Walker, Texas Ranger and that's one of my favorite TV appearance and I wished he more on Walker and that's was his only one. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 9:29:27 GMT -5
He probably didn't have many. Some did seem to lose rarely. I can't remember many pinfall losses for the Honky Tonk Man, to be honest. And I'm not just on about his Intercontinental Championship reign. Yes, there were some (SummerSlam 1988), but it seemed very rare to see HTM get pinned on TV. Or during his short WCW tenure.
Macho Man was the same, at least during his tenures as a face. As a heel, I remember seeing him get pinned a lot of times by the likes of Hogan and Warrior. And, yes, he got pinned by Ric Flair in late 1992 (but was that televised, I can't recall?). But from his return from 'retirement' to 1994, I don't recall him getting pinned on TV.
There's no specific point I am making. I do think pinfall losses make things more believable. Jake Roberts is a favourite of mine, but he seemed to have an equal amount of wins and losses on TV. When any character is invincible, and rarely stares at the ceiling, it can be predictable.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 11:06:59 GMT -5
My Favorite Ric Flair Moments in WCW History
Great Promo in WCW Thunder! ... I remember that vividly!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 11:19:48 GMT -5
He probably didn't have many. Some did seem to lose rarely. I can't remember many pinfall losses for the Honky Tonk Man, to be honest. And I'm not just on about his Intercontinental Championship reign. Yes, there were some ( SummerSlam 1988), but it seemed very rare to see HTM get pinned on TV. Or during his short WCW tenure. This is one wrestler (Honky Tonk Man) that I had a hard time believing in him and to me ... he always wins on television and I haven't seen him lose at all. I find him too predictable and believable and that's when I stopped watching professional wrestling when he is on the television program and I just can't stand his Elvis gimmick and I also had a hard time enjoying Greg "The Hammer" Valentine when the form the Rhythm and Blues tag team together.  Odd pairing ... I liked Greg as a single competitor ... not when he partnered with HKM and that when I just can't take them seriously enough. I just find this picture totally ridiculous and looks silly to me back then and it's still does. But, face it ... it was a genius of Jimmy Hart to put them together. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 15:29:20 GMT -5
Well, at least we got good Hasbro toys out of Rhythm and Blues.  I feel they shone brightly but quickly. I know they were teaming up prior to their Rhythm & Blues phase, but simply as Honky Tonk Man & Greg Valentine. I liked their look as Rhythm and Blues, but did they do much? I seem to recall inconclusive matches against the likes of the Bushwhackers. Still, at least they have the honour of teaming with Undertaker for his first WWF match. I prefer Valentine with fair hair, but Rhythm and Blues represent a time when wrestling didn't take itself too seriously. I remember some articles in WWF Magazine about their music careers. Did they really sell platinum albums? I seriously doubt it! Not sure if they ever fought Demolition, but I'd have loved to have seen this. Incidentally, next year marks thirty years of me consistently watching WWF. I had seen some WWF prior to 1990, but it was only in 1990 that I was able to follow it religiously via satellite/cable - and the increased distribution of various magazines. Before that, it was hit and miss, e.g. Coliseum Video imports that my parents got me or static images of PPVs in the Apter mags. I will say this, though, although 1990 was the first year in which I consistently followed WWF, it's interesting that in late 1989/1990, Silver Vision, the official videotape licensee for the WWF in the UK, released tapes such as SummerSlam 1988, WrestleMania III, High Flyers, etc. It's amazing to think all of that is now on the WWF Network. But thanks to Silver Vision, I got up to speed really quickly. Being aware of the WWF in the late 80s was good - and I did my best with Coliseum Video imports and Apter mags - but nothing beats being able to follow it consistently and religiously. Thirty years, eh? Wow! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 16:04:52 GMT -5
R & B fought Demolition back in 1988 ... @taxidriver1980
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 16:35:02 GMT -5
Thank you, sir!
The WWF Network's search facility is flawed at times (you can't search for Chris Benoit, so good luck finding the cage match he had against Kurt Angle on SmackDown, you'll have to search for "Angle" and "cage match"). Sometimes, totally irrelevant results come up.
So I appreciate this.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2019 10:07:12 GMT -5
As a kid, I used to combine the I-C and World title bouts on a PPV to create a tag team match. I would even do the same with WWF and JCP/WCW (so, in the summer of 1990, I imagined WCW World Champion Sting teaming up with WWF World Champion Ultimate Warrior vs Ric Flair & Rick Rude).
Well, what happens when you do that with WrestleMania III? Imagine a tag bout the day after that PPV. You get WWF World Champion Hulk Hogan & WWF Intercontinental Champion Ricky Steamboat vs Macho Man Randy Savage & Andre the Giant.
Wouldn't that have been a great match?!!
I would even throw the tag team titles in at times. So using WrestleMania VII as an example, you get...
...Hulk Hogan, Big Boss Man & Hart Foundation vs Sgt. Slaughter, Mr. Perfect & The Nasty Boys.
You can do it with any era if you combine the champions and top challengers. So, one more example from Royal Rumble 1993:
WWF World Champion Bret Hart & Marty Jannetty vs WWF I-C Champion Shawn Michaels & Razor Ramon. I would love that match!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 12:05:54 GMT -5
So, was Steamboat vs Savage or Hogan vs Andre the best match at WrestleMania III?
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