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Post by driver1980 on Jun 19, 2024 10:29:21 GMT -5
Today is the 30th anniversary of King of the Ring 1994, which dbutler69 and I discussed recently. Here’s how WWF Magazine reviewed it:
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Post by dbutler69 on Jun 20, 2024 8:04:54 GMT -5
While there was some enjoyment to be had here, I agree with most of what you say. I can’t believe the referee counted a whole team out in the opening bout. Weird. Also, looking beyond this PPV, why was Diesel suddenly number one contender to the WWF Championship? King Kong Bundy and Bigelow (along with Tatanka) got a pretty definitive win for their team, couldn’t they be equally valid as no. 1 contenders? I don’t mind the clown shenanigans, and Jerry Lawler getting a pie in his face made it all worth it. I agree with your assessment of Bret/Backlund, which was overlong. Also, it did make me smile how Helen Hart just stepped over an unconscious Davey Boy Smith. No concern for your son-in-law, Helen? The Guts and Glory vs Million Dollar Team bout was rather mediocre, I felt. I also wasn’t that into the casket match, and when IRS interfered, I thought, ‘Great, an Undertaker/IRS feud to follow.’ A case could be made that, after the opening match, the clown shenanigans was the best match. Doink throwing a pie in Lawler’s face is what I’d take over Guts and Glory vs. The Million Dollar Team any day of the week. It’s a shame we couldn’t have got a women’s match here, Alundra Blayze deserved better during this period. What say you, dbutler69 ? I *think* this was Gorilla Monsoon’s final PPV appearance (as a commentator at least). Yes, I'd rather have seen an Alundra Blayze-Bull Nakano rematch rather than most of the matches were got here. Doink giving Lawler a pie in the face was cool, but I'm so sick of Dink and all the others. I wish they'd all just go away. I can at least handl Doink by himself as a comedy act. Yeah, it's obviously Vince behind things with Diesel getting this big push. He's got his guys he falls in love with. On Superstars a few days after this, they said that Jack Tunney made Diesel the #1 contender due to his performance at Survivor Series, but it does seem a bit rushed. I don't think King Kong Bundy has been back long enough or beaten anybody of note since coming back to be #1 contender but I could buy Bam Bam Bigelow in that role. Interesting that also on Superstars, they intimated a couple of times that it was Stu that threw in the towel. Uh, no guys, it was Helen. She took the towel from Stu, who refused to throw it in, and threw it in herself. I know WWF/WWE are bad about their own history, but they apparently can't even remember something that happened 3 days ago correctly! And yes, I believe there's an Undertaker/IRS feud to follow. In fact, on the Superstars a fe days after this, after several weeks of promos with IRS going to the cemetery and auditing some dead guy ("John Dough") he finally called out the Undertaker. Just what everybody was clamoring for. It's amazing how many mediocre and/or bad feuds the Undertaker got stuck in for a period of several years.
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Post by driver1980 on Jun 20, 2024 8:09:11 GMT -5
I know we’ll get there, but these booking decisions have an effect on the 1995 Royal Rumble. Undertaker/IRS is on the undercard. Diesel defends against Bret Hart. Razor defends the IC Championship against Jeff Jarrett. That leaves the 30-Man Rumble devoid of any star power, making it, IMO, one of the poorer Rumbles.
If you ask me, Undertaker should have been in that Rumble rather than facing IRS (they’d already had singles bouts). Also frustrates me that Razor Ramon never actually wrestled in the 30-Man Rumble (obviously, I won’t count Fake Razor). Having Undertaker and Razor - to name two - in that Rumble would have given it some star power, but I know we’ll be discussing that soon!
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Post by dbutler69 on Jun 20, 2024 8:09:22 GMT -5
As I continue to revisit my old tapes, WrestleFest ‘92 was last night’s viewing: We begin with Virgil, wearing a protective face mask, against Shawn Michaels. I’ve completely forgotten the kayfabe reason for the mask. Did Repo Man or Nailz harm Virgil’s face? Or was it Sid Justice? The Nasty Boys? What happened eludes my memory. Anyway, this is a solid bout with both men firing on all cylinders, presented in a believable way. It takes place in MSG, which always adds to the atmosphere. Michaels wins via pinfall. Money Inc. defend their tag titles against The Bushwhackers. It was short and fun. I was kind of rooting for Luke and Butch to win this one, but IRS pinned Butch. What, two conclusive and consecutive pinfall victories on a Coliseum release? Make that three as Davey Boy Smith pins The Model Rick Martel. It felt like both were capable of better here, but it was hardly long enough to gain any momentum. Then we got our fourth consecutive pinfall victory as Bret Hart, defending the IC championship, defeats Barbarian. It was a good big man vs. small man encounter with a real air of credibility (Barbarian’s psychology and timing was underrated). (In between matches, Bobby Heenan and Gene Okerlund have fun playing tennis. Typical Coliseum segments, short and fun) The Natural Disasters take on The Nasty Boys. It’s hardly a classic, but it’s enhanced by the fact both teams were former proteges, so there’s some intrigue. And we get our fifth consecutive clean win as Earthquake pins Sags. Wow. You’re losing your touch, Coliseum, we’d been conditioned to expect DQs and count outs… Make that consecutive/conclusive ending number six as Macho Man pins IRS in an okay match, one which was chosen by a fan (allegedly). In a segment which defies belief, but made me smile, The Berzerker showed us how to host the perfect party; invitations are easy as he just grabs a person and forces them to attend his party. We also get to see him make peanut butter sandwiches. You had to see this to believe it. We get our first and only DQ ending of the tape as Repo Man is disqualified during a bout with El Matador, a pretty forgettable bout, to be honest. But we return to conclusive endings as the Legion of Doom and Natural Disasters take on the Money Inc. and the Nasty Boys. It’s intriguing to see the LOD and Disasters on the same team as they were enemies a short while before this match. Wrestling is filled with forgiving souls, where Jake’s pet snake can be killed by Earthquake, yet they’re cutting promos months later. Anyway, this was only a passable bout. Quake pins Saggs for the win. Virgil/Shawn and Bushwhackers/Money Inc. are good bouts. Bret/Barbarian is the match of the tape. You can take or leave the rest. I watched this tape maybe a year ago. I seem to recall it was reasonably enjoyable, and the tennis stuff with Heenan and Okerland was amusing - better than most of the Coliseum filler. And yes, it's incredible how Earthquake and Jake were buddies so shortly after Quake killed Jake's snake! This must be a record to clean finishes in a Coliseum tape!
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Post by dbutler69 on Jun 20, 2024 8:17:52 GMT -5
While there was some enjoyment to be had here, I agree with most of what you say. I can’t believe the referee counted a whole team out in the opening bout. Weird. Also, looking beyond this PPV, why was Diesel suddenly number one contender to the WWF Championship? King Kong Bundy and Bigelow (along with Tatanka) got a pretty definitive win for their team, couldn’t they be equally valid as no. 1 contenders? I don’t mind the clown shenanigans, and Jerry Lawler getting a pie in his face made it all worth it. I agree with your assessment of Bret/Backlund, which was overlong. Also, it did make me smile how Helen Hart just stepped over an unconscious Davey Boy Smith. No concern for your son-in-law, Helen? The Guts and Glory vs Million Dollar Team bout was rather mediocre, I felt. I also wasn’t that into the casket match, and when IRS interfered, I thought, ‘Great, an Undertaker/IRS feud to follow.’ A case could be made that, after the opening match, the clown shenanigans was the best match. Doink throwing a pie in Lawler’s face is what I’d take over Guts and Glory vs. The Million Dollar Team any day of the week. It’s a shame we couldn’t have got a women’s match here, Alundra Blayze deserved better during this period. What say you, dbutler69 ? I *think* this was Gorilla Monsoon’s final PPV appearance (as a commentator at least). Oh, and as far as Gorilla, you might be right. One thing, during the Hart-Backlund submission match, when Backlund had Bret in an arm bar, Gorilla said "I never saw anybody submit to an arm bar" and I thought to myself "I guess you've never seen a Maxx Payne match, Gorilla."
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Post by driver1980 on Jun 20, 2024 11:34:17 GMT -5
There’s no denying how popular Ultimate Warrior was at his peak. I’m not surprised they chose to give him a world title run. He had an energy and charisma that I’m sure some people wish they could bottle. Naturally, that meant a videotape release or two. I watched this one last night, it was 60 minutes long: We begin with Warrior vs. Andre the Giant, from 1989 (Maple Leaf Gardens). This is pretty good as both guys tell a good story, with Warrior having to throw everything he has at Andre. Yes, it was a DQ win (for Warrior). But making Warrior the David to Andre’s Goliath meant the match was a good one by the standards of the era. Warrior then defeats Haku in a short but entertaining contest. At one point, things seemed bleak for Warrior as Andre and Rick Rude came down to ringside, but it was good to see Warrior prevail. For reasons I didn’t understand - then or now - we get a squash match, Warrior vs. Bob Embury. Warrior hits Embury with a clothesline that seemed very stiff. Poor Bob. I’m not sure why a 1:39 squash match was included here, we could have had a match from SNME or something. Then we have a Weasel Suit match between Heenan and Warrior. It was what it was, but this was on another tape (I’m almost certain). Final match sees Warrior vs. Rick Rude (post-WM V). Warrior wins by count-out, but walks away with the Intercontinental Championship anyway, which he shouldn’t have done. There’s an amusing spot where Rude is posing over Warrior, but Warrior headbutts him in the groin. But these two had better bouts. There is nothing on this tape that is bad. It’s vintage Warrior. It does what it says on the tin. Warrior fans, and I was one, were not disappointed. The matches featuring Embury and Heenan should not have been included on here (think of the other bouts we could have been shown), but the Warrior/Andre match alone made this a worthy tape for me. And the Warrior/Rude match is at least fun.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 20, 2024 11:42:18 GMT -5
And yet, he couldn't do the Iron Sheik's Persian Club challenge.....
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Post by commond on Jun 20, 2024 15:54:54 GMT -5
Gorilla's obviously never seen a Fujiwara match.
I am curious about whether these reviews are going to continue into 1995. 1995 was an all-time low for me as a wrestling fan and almost forced me to give up on wrestling for good.
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Post by driver1980 on Jun 20, 2024 17:40:30 GMT -5
Apparently, an idiot has been speaking again. Yes, Vince Russo.
You know, with that guy, we often go from “I don’t watch modern wrestling at all…” to “When I watch modern wrestling, I do not believe. And I don’t like Seth Rollins’ singing, laughs, outfits, etc.”
Is this idiot watching wrestling or isn’t he?
He often goes on about “1000%” when mentioning a view. Why not just say you are 100% behind something?
Anyway, if anyone knows how you can both “absolutely not watch modern wrestling” and also be entirely familiar with the shows, let me know. And it isn’t second hand. He has said he doesn’t like people’s promos, he says he can’t suspend disbelief while watching WWE, etc. So he is watching it!
Incidentally, Russo has said he’s not a belt guy. Ah, that explains his crappy booking.
On a final note, Russo claims he doesn’t care about Bayley. She seems to elicit no emotion from him. Fine. I empathise, reminds me of how I felt complete indifference when he was involved in anything at WCW, in the ring or from a booking standpoint. Bayley on her worst day would elicit more emotion from me than ANYTHING Russo could do on his best day. (I know, “Russo” and “best day” are mutually exclusive)
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Post by Batflunkie on Jun 20, 2024 19:15:32 GMT -5
Apparently, an idiot has been speaking again. Yes, Vince Russo. Oh, you mean the head idiot? The leading dunce-in-charge who thinks that he has his poo-ridden finger on the pulse of the wrestling community? Picked up Bret's biography from '09 at work for a song and been reading and enjoying it. Was a bit curious about Sweet Daddy Siki (kind of envisioned him as being the progenitor for Ric Flair from how Bret worded him) but he looks fairly standard from this video taking on a VERY young Lou Albano *edit Here's a a better representation of what I had in mind*
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 20, 2024 21:00:27 GMT -5
Apparently, an idiot has been speaking again. Yes, Vince Russo. Oh, you mean the head idiot? The leading dunce-in-charge who thinks that he has his poo-ridden finger on the pulse of the wrestling community? Picked up Bret's biography from '09 at work for a song and been reading and enjoying it. Was a bit curious about Sweet Daddy Siki (kind of envisioned him as being the progenitor for Ric Flair from how Bret worded him) but he looks fairly standard from this video taking on a VERY young Lou Albano *edit Here's a a better representation of what I had in mind* I never saw the guy, only read about him; but, he was pretty big, especially in Canada, in Toronto, Stampede, Vancouver and elsewhere. Came down to Memphis, in the early 80s, though he was about 30 years into his career, by that point. Personality was a big part of it.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 20, 2024 21:50:31 GMT -5
Just watched episode 3 of Who Killed WCW?. Do not ever try a drinking game where you drink when the word "bro" (okay, sound, since that ain't a word) is uttered; or, you will end up with blood alcohol poisoning!
It's Russo's chance to defend his record and it's pretty much what you would expect: spin, no responsibility for failures, complete ignorance of the point of the show and a complete lack of understanding of storytelling, beyond an individual scene.
He claims that Tony Sciavone pitched David Arquette winning the title. That has never come up before his recent claims of that. No one ever pointed a finger at Tony for that. Tony isn't interviewed for this, so no confirmation or denial from him; but, to use the words of Gorilla Monsoon, "Highly unlikely!"
Even in interviews, he is fixated on ratings, which tanked completely. He clings to the brief bump they got, at the start. A blind monkey could have gotten that bump, as it was just curiosity, fueled by the mistaken belief that since he was a writer for the WWF, he had to be the one responsible for their resurgence. Boy did Russo clear that misconception up quickly. There is some back and forth and then Brad Siegal is asked about it and he said they "went up a little, but it didn't affect the advertising money." That's the part Russo never got; it's a business and business is about making money. He seemed to think that a slight improvement to the ratings meant he was doing his job. If they can't sell more advertising, based on those ratings, then he accomplished nothing. The tv didn't translate to an increase in ticket sales and PPV buys went down. The point of wrestling tv was to sell that product. It didn't make people want to go out and buy their merchandise. They weren't getting paid huge amounts for their show........Warner and Turner had pretty much gifted the show to TNT, so advertising, live events, merch sales and PPV buys were their main revenue streams. Those got worse, the more Russo's stuff bombed with the audience.
He brings up the "casual audience," which gets the response from Konnan, who said "Why would the casual audience want to see Judy Bagwell on a pole?"
He tries to claim that Bischoff had Hogan's ear and that's why Hogan wouldn't trust him. He even claims that if Bischoff had been gone, then he and Hogan would have gotten along fine. Not buying that one.
Basically, Russo is not responsible for any of the failures and when challenged with putting himself all over the tv, he claims he was better than 80% of the locker room and his job was to write a tv show. So, if you are hired to write Star Trek and you put out episodes of I Love Lucy, with yourself in place of Lucille Ball, you've done your job?
He claims that Kevin Sullivan & JJ Dillon conspired behind his back to get creative away from him and that he went home, refusing to work on a committee, not that they relieved him of his duties and suspended him. No one backs up Russo's claims, though no one outright calls BS on that. Bischoff is brought back to oversee Russo, according to him, Russo claims otherwise but he was determined to do his job. So, he goes from claiming he had full creative control, contractually to agreeing to work with Bischoff, because he wanted and not because he was compelled to do so.
He tries to claim he championed Booker T and the racial discrimination lawsuit brought by Sony Ono and other WCW wrestlers is not brought up, at all, when most insider accounts said that the lawsuit led to them deciding to put the belt on Booker T, as a deflection of the racial issue.
Russo makes the claim that Benoit, Guerrero, Saturn and Malenko left because he went home....not because Sullivan was put in charge. His presence had nothing to do with it. Sullivan's had everything to do with it, as they went to Bill Busch and said they couldn't work with him, specifically, especially Chris. Russo was never in the picture.
He claims Goldberg deliberately tried to hurt him, when he speared him through a gimmicked part of a cage. To which Goldberg responded that if he wanted to hurt Russo, he wouldn't be breathing. Or he would have had a career-ending concussion, Bill. Russo is full of it; but, Goldberg still comes across as an A-hole.
Nash is so baked in this episode that he should have a recipe card attached to his forehead. They show him the footage of them trying to drop blood on him, from above, and missing. he claims there were multiple tries and it was the same old story. I had long given up, by that point, so all I have seen is the clip they showed. Did they actually try it several times live or is Nash in THC land? Well, he is, but I mean his memory.
Next episode is about the end; so I assume talk of Bischoff trying to put together a group to buy it, which dies when Jamie Kelner announces the cancellation of the tv show and Vince getting it for peanut shells (didn't even cost him the peanuts).
The most ridiculous thing said is by Russo, where he says he hates wrestling, yet he keeps trying to beg jobs in it or related to it. Guess that degree in journalism hasn't helped much. Or managing a video store.
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Jun 20, 2024 21:51:44 GMT -5
Unfortunately there is really nothing footage wise of Siki's prime years as a heel in Calgary and Toronto. Some of the angles he was involved in during his time in Calgary in the 60s in particular sound amazing. The match linked above was from the period just before he bleached his hair and became a heel sensation in Canada. There is footage of Siki from the 80s in the Maritimes but he was getting up there by then. Honestly I've never really explored that footage
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Post by commond on Jun 21, 2024 3:51:09 GMT -5
This documentary trailer is pretty cool.
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Post by driver1980 on Jun 21, 2024 4:50:33 GMT -5
Just watched episode 3 of Who Killed WCW?. Do not ever try a drinking game where you drink when the word "bro" (okay, sound, since that ain't a word) is uttered; or, you will end up with blood alcohol poisoning! It's Russo's chance to defend his record and it's pretty much what you would expect: spin, no responsibility for failures, complete ignorance of the point of the show and a complete lack of understanding of storytelling, beyond an individual scene. He claims that Tony Sciavone pitched David Arquette winning the title. That has never come up before his recent claims of that. No one ever pointed a finger at Tony for that. Tony isn't interviewed for this, so no confirmation or denial from him; but, to use the words of Gorilla Monsoon, "Highly unlikely!" Even in interviews, he is fixated on ratings, which tanked completely. He clings to the brief bump they got, at the start. A blind monkey could have gotten that bump, as it was just curiosity, fueled by the mistaken belief that since he was a writer for the WWF, he had to be the one responsible for their resurgence. Boy did Russo clear that misconception up quickly. There is some back and forth and then Brad Siegal is asked about it and he said they "went up a little, but it didn't affect the advertising money." That's the part Russo never got; it's a business and business is about making money. He seemed to think that a slight improvement to the ratings meant he was doing his job. If they can't sell more advertising, based on those ratings, then he accomplished nothing. The tv didn't translate to an increase in ticket sales and PPV buys went down. The point of wrestling tv was to sell that product. It didn't make people want to go out and buy their merchandise. They weren't getting paid huge amounts for their show........Warner and Turner had pretty much gifted the show to TNT, so advertising, live events, merch sales and PPV buys were their main revenue streams. Those got worse, the more Russo's stuff bombed with the audience. He brings up the "casual audience," which gets the response from Konnan, who said "Why would the casual audience want to see Judy Bagwell on a pole?" He tries to claim that Bischoff had Hogan's ear and that's why Hogan wouldn't trust him. He even claims that if Bischoff had been gone, then he and Hogan would have gotten along fine. Not buying that one. Basically, Russo is not responsible for any of the failures and when challenged with putting himself all over the tv, he claims he was better than 80% of the locker room and his job was to write a tv show. So, if you are hired to write Star Trek and you put out episodes of I Love Lucy, with yourself in place of Lucille Ball, you've done your job? He claims that Kevin Sullivan & JJ Dillon conspired behind his back to get creative away from him and that he went home, refusing to work on a committee, not that they relieved him of his duties and suspended him. No one backs up Russo's claims, though no one outright calls BS on that. Bischoff is brought back to oversee Russo, according to him, Russo claims otherwise but he was determined to do his job. So, he goes from claiming he had full creative control, contractually to agreeing to work with Bischoff, because he wanted and not because he was compelled to do so. He tries to claim he championed Booker T and the racial discrimination lawsuit brought by Sony Ono and other WCW wrestlers is not brought up, at all, when most insider accounts said that the lawsuit led to them deciding to put the belt on Booker T, as a deflection of the racial issue. Russo makes the claim that Benoit, Guerrero, Saturn and Malenko left because he went home....not because Sullivan was put in charge. His presence had nothing to do with it. Sullivan's had everything to do with it, as they went to Bill Busch and said they couldn't work with him, specifically, especially Chris. Russo was never in the picture. He claims Goldberg deliberately tried to hurt him, when he speared him through a gimmicked part of a cage. To which Goldberg responded that if he wanted to hurt Russo, he wouldn't be breathing. Or he would have had a career-ending concussion, Bill. Russo is full of it; but, Goldberg still comes across as an A-hole. Nash is so baked in this episode that he should have a recipe card attached to his forehead. They show him the footage of them trying to drop blood on him, from above, and missing. he claims there were multiple tries and it was the same old story. I had long given up, by that point, so all I have seen is the clip they showed. Did they actually try it several times live or is Nash in THC land? Well, he is, but I mean his memory. Next episode is about the end; so I assume talk of Bischoff trying to put together a group to buy it, which dies when Jamie Kelner announces the cancellation of the tv show and Vince getting it for peanut shells (didn't even cost him the peanuts). The most ridiculous thing said is by Russo, where he says he hates wrestling, yet he keeps trying to beg jobs in it or related to it. Guess that degree in journalism hasn't helped much. Or managing a video store. What an absolute idiot. I knew he wouldn’t take responsibility. And if he hates wrestling, find another job. He looks fit, so could do a manual job. Who are these people who PAY to watch his Patreon? I have seen YouTube clips (for free). Imagine paying a dollar a week - or whatever it costs - to hear the SAME stuff. You get a bro every ten seconds, a rant about casual fans, a rant about how he doesn’t watch the product, a rant about how there’s too much wrestling on a wrestling show, etc. I love how he and his sycophants go on about how he was a success in WCW because we’re all still talking about it. Yes, and people are still talking about the Titanic. Doesn’t mean the ship’s voyage was a success. Did he mention how much coverage USA Today gave to Arquette as world champion? You know, I didn’t know USA Today clippings paid the bills. I didn’t know newspaper clippings were what advertisers looked at. I wish I had known. Maybe I can pay for my groceries with some newspaper clippings. As you show, there was a reason people tuned in initially when he joined WCW. It’s called curiosity, Russo. I like the writer Charles Soule. I’m not really following X-Men comics nowadays. But if Soule was assigned to an X-book, I might look in out of curiosity. After the garbage WCW had fed fans in late 1998/1999, some no doubt expected Russo to be a breath of fresh air. Great response from Konnan on casual fans. I’m BORED with Russo’s nonsense about casual fans. Did Game of Thrones seek casual fans? Should they have done? My late stepfather was a casual fan. I remember him watching Royal Rumble 1995 with me. Prior to that, he’d watched Ron Simmons defeat Vader for the WCW World Championship. I know that he didn’t really look in on it until the Attitude Era, I remember him recognising William Regal as the Lord Steven Regal he’d seen in WCW. I do remember him watching Goldberg vs. Triple H in 2003. So that’s about four or five matches in 8 years. Love ya, stepdad, but that is a casual fan, and the likes of WWE should not have been booking content based on someone who only checked in casually. Yes, Goldberg is proving to be an A-hole lately, for all sorts of reasons. My opinion of Russo has gone down even further after seeing a clip of him saying he’s not a belt guy. He doesn’t understand story structure, build up, endings, etc. He’d have had Spock “turn heel” on Kirk just to shock people, without any idea how to follow that up. Take him winning the world title and only holding it for four days (or was it two?). How was that gonna make money for WCW? How was that gonna attract TV ratings? He’s just a mark for himself. I am getting some enjoyment out of WWE right now. I want to tune in to see where the CM Punk/Drew McIntyre feud goes. I’m curious as to whether Damien Priest will fall out with the Judgment Day. I’ll watch the PLEs. I’m hooked. Many are. But I feel I can guarantee that no fan on Earth, back in the day, said, “I really must watch WCW next week to see what happens with Russo’s world title reign.” Or, “Wow, Arquette is champion, where’s my cable operator, the next WCW PPV is a must.” Cody, you mentioned Spike executives giving Russo his marching orders. Do you know an exact quote? I’d love to see one.
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