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Post by dbutler69 on May 13, 2024 7:55:24 GMT -5
The Tsuruta/Martel match is on YouTube. Personally, I think Vince should have made Martel IC champion in the early 80s instead of going back to Morales. That's purely based on what I've seen of the Martel/Garera tag team. I liked the Model stuff, but like most folks I was disappointed that there wasn't a proper blowoff against Santana. In '94, he could still work decent matches against talented workers, but his ceiling was probably an IC run. I agree on all points. |
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Post by driver1980 on May 13, 2024 9:12:52 GMT -5
Any thoughts on this upcoming match?  |
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Post by Ricky Jackson on May 13, 2024 14:38:51 GMT -5
The Wedding of the Century 😉
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Post by codystarbuck on May 13, 2024 20:10:18 GMT -5
The Wedding of the Century 😉 It does look rather like something Chris Colt would have appreciated. |
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Post by codystarbuck on May 13, 2024 20:31:08 GMT -5
Forty years ago today, Rick Martel defeated Jumbo Tsuruta to win the AWA World Heavyweight Championship at a show in the St Paul Civic Center, Saint Paul, Minnesota. Sadly for me, it’s not a match I’ve seen.  I liked Rick. The WWF should have done more with him, by 1993/94 it seemed like they were booking him as glorified enhancement talent. Had the brand split been around during his era, I wonder, would he have been given a world title run? Or was McMahon’s perception of him as a person who was mid-card? With some exceptions, it did seem Vince didn’t want to give world championship runs to *some* who had been world champions elsewhere. I mean, I still can’t believe that Vader won world titles in Europe, Japan and the US, but never on WWF soil. I don't think Rick would have been a world champion for anyone but Verne, unless it was something like the old Montreal World title, where it is a local thing. He wasn't necessarily a bad choice for the AWA, in that period, as they didn't really have anyone else. Wanz got a quick run with the belt to help put himself over in Germany and boost his shows and he was bringing in AWA guys to work his shows. Tsuruta, who was good enough technically, to be a world champion and meant big things in Japan, was a gimme to Baba, to help further elevate Tsuruta. Bockwinkle had been the champ, off and on, since Verne retired (again). Verne wouldn't pull the trigger on Hogan, and he left and even Verne knew that Greg couldn't be a world champion (and I never heard that Greg lobbied for it). Hennig was still pretty green, at that point and had been working WWF and Portland, before coming home. The only other viable babyface option, really, was Lawler and that only meant something in Memphis and not really in the AWA cities (though that doesn't mean they couldn't have run with the idea, though I doubt it would have been more successful). Martel was a draw in Canada and he got good responses from the US crowds...he was good looking, could do a decent promo, and could work with anyone. He just seemed to lack that X Factor that separates the big draws from the rest of the boys. I don't think the WWF audience would have bought him above the IC title and I can't see him as an NWA touring champion or a WCW company champion. As it was, I think they did the right thing in switching it to Hanson and I think they could have done so much more with that; but, Verne just didn't seem to have ideas or even care. It frustrated Hanson to no end. Devon Nicholson (Hannibal) , the only interviewer to make Rob Feinstein sound exciting. Verne, with Hogan, could have done huge business. Not WWF-level, because Verne didn't have that vision, but it would have significantly increased his business. you might have even gotten a Hogan & Flair, AWA vs NWA match or two. Ultimately, though, I think Vince would have wooed him away....possibly with the belt. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on May 13, 2024 21:12:24 GMT -5
The rating for Hogan v Rock is even more ridiculous considering he rates almost every random, forgettable undercard match higher than that these days Meltzer is all about work rate and couldn't care less about how entertaining or important the match is... and he also massively plays favorites, his ratings are even more random and subjective than most. I'm sure if the Danielson - Osprey match was 90 seconds long it still would have got 4 stars at least. |
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Post by codystarbuck on May 13, 2024 22:19:18 GMT -5
RIP to Former Minnesota sports hero and pro wrestler Bob Bruggers....  Bruggers was from Lincoln , Nebraska and played football at Danube High School. He went to college at the Univ of Minnesota, where he played basketball and football. After college, he joined the Miami Dolphins, in the AFL and played 3 seasons there, before being traded to the San Diego Chargers, for two more seasons. He left behind football in 1971. From there, he soon found himself involved with another Minnesota institution: Verne Gagne. Bruggers trained in the same camp with Ken Patera, Olympian Chris Taylor and Richard Fliehr, who would become Ric Flair. He and Flair started in the AWA the same week and both had their debut match against George "Scrapiron" Gadaski. Their careers remained intertwined and both went to the Carolinas, in the mid-70s. There, they both traveled on a small airplane that crashed, carrying Bruggers, Flair, Johnny Valentine, Tim "Mr Wrestling" Woods, and David Crockett. Woods checked himself out of a hospital and made an appearance in the ring , to hide his association with the crash and Flair, after a long recovery, returned to the ring and went on to be a multiple times NWA and WWF world champion. Johnny Valentine and Bob Bruggers' careers came to an end, due to their injuries. David Crockett went on to annoy people at 6:05, Saturday nights, on TBS. Bruggers was inducted into the Univ of Minnesota "M Club" Hall of Fame, in 2002, in recognition of his basketball and football accomplishments. In his short wrestling career, his greatest achievement was winning the Mid-Atlantic Tag Team Championship, with partner Paul Jones (the later manager), after defeating The Andersons. They held them for three months, before losing them to Rip Hawk and Ric Flair, once again linking their two careers. |
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Post by driver1980 on May 14, 2024 5:22:31 GMT -5
The rating for Hogan v Rock is even more ridiculous considering he rates almost every random, forgettable undercard match higher than that these days Meltzer is all about work rate and couldn't care less about how entertaining or important the match is... and he also massively plays favorites, his ratings are even more random and subjective than most. I'm sure if the Danielson - Osprey match was 90 seconds long it still would have got 4 stars at least. Jake Roberts did a UK-based shoot interview years ago, where he mentioned that a match starts the minute you step through the curtain. He talked about the facets of a match. And I agree with him. I mean, Roman Reigns’ entrance is a big part of the match. As for workrate, it’s important, but I feel Dave missed the point about Hogan/Rock. Had 2 gimmick-free wrestlers, Bob Jones and Mike Smith, wrestled in that spot and done those moves at WM X-8, no-one would have cared. Triple H and Chris Jericho followed that Hogan/Rock match and no-one cared. I did say to someone once, there’s a reason why Hogan, love him or hate him, had countless videotape releases (one UK release sold 80,000+ copies, not bad for a niche product) while Dean Malenko didn’t have any. As much as I liked Malenko’s skillset, I doubt 80,000+ copies of a Malenko videotape would have been sold. |
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Post by commond on May 14, 2024 5:44:41 GMT -5
It's an over-simplification to say that Dave only cares about workrate. Dave knows and understands how the business works. His star ratings are simply his opinion as a fan not a critic or a journalist. They were extremely useful back in the tape trading days when you had to carefully pick and choose what you bought.
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Post by driver1980 on May 14, 2024 6:02:46 GMT -5
It's an over-simplification to say that Dave only cares about workrate. Dave knows and understands how the business works. His star ratings are simply his opinion as a fan not a critic or a journalist. They were extremely useful back in the tape trading days when you had to carefully pick and choose what you bought. I doubt he only cares about workrate, but he did seem to miss the point on the spectacle of Hogan/Rock, and also maybe Shawn/Undertaker at WM 25. It does often seem, based on his own words, that he doesn’t necessarily enjoy or appreciate gimmicks and characters. |
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Post by driver1980 on May 14, 2024 6:15:48 GMT -5
Thirty years ago today, ECW’s When Worlds Collide took place at the ECW Arena in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Has anyone seen it? (I have not)
The main event of Bobby Eaton & Sabu vs. Arn Anderson & Terry Funk sounds intriguing, that’s an interesting mix of talent there.
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Post by commond on May 14, 2024 6:29:22 GMT -5
It's an over-simplification to say that Dave only cares about workrate. Dave knows and understands how the business works. His star ratings are simply his opinion as a fan not a critic or a journalist. They were extremely useful back in the tape trading days when you had to carefully pick and choose what you bought. I doubt he only cares about workrate, but he did seem to miss the point on the spectacle of Hogan/Rock, and also maybe Shawn/Undertaker at WM 25. It does often seem, based on his own words, that he doesn’t necessarily enjoy or appreciate gimmicks and characters. Dave doesn't put as much thought into his star ratings as his audience does. His star ratings are literally in the moment, and he somewhat notoriously refuses to go back and reassess the past. I know many people who have argued with Dave personally about that. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what Dave rated Rock/Hogan. If there are communities of fans who think it's a great match then over time it will take on that rep. The idea of needing validation from Dave's ratings reminds me of when we'd all get our pants in a twist over what Herb Kunze thought of the latest WWF PPV. People get fired up over star ratings these days. I remember when it was a HUGE deal. The thing is, as adult wrestling fans we want a canon. The same way film and music has a canon. And literature and every other art. But wrestling isn't taken that seriously. It's canon is the same as comics or cartoons. People lose sight of that when they get too heavy into the star ratings. |
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Post by driver1980 on May 14, 2024 19:53:57 GMT -5
Does anyone care about WWE’s drafts anymore?
The initial brand split in 2002 was fun, and when WWE switched to single-brand PPVs (outside the Big Four), it made even more sense.
The 2004 and 2005 drafts were fun. John Cena showing up on Raw in 2005 caught me by surprise.
Depending on how you count it, haven’t there been something like 18 or 19 drafts? Like Money in the Bank, the law of diminishing returns applies.
There’s no attempt to even pay lip service to the rules of the draft now. Someone is traded to Raw or SmackDown - but then returns weeks or months later. Some wrestlers are exempt from the draft, e.g. Omos was (is?) a free agent. How can a draft be meaningful if some are exempt?
The rules of the draft are that there are no rules.
From 2002 and onwards, it meant something. We only got to see crossover during the Royal Rumble. Brock Lesnar became exclusive to SmackDown and there he remained for his first WWF/E tenure. Shawn Michaels was on Raw - exclusively. This ensured that the brand split meant something. It also made crossover moments/fights meaningful, e.g. WWE Champion Brock Lesnar and World Heavyweight Champion Bill Goldberg having a backstage encounter at Survivor Series 2003:
Nowadays, I have no reason to care. Bianca Belair is on SmackDown (as she was when she made her main roster debut). She was on Raw for a while. She’ll probably return to Raw next time WWE ignores its ‘brand split’ or decides to have another draft. Substitute Belair for any other wrestler, male or female, and it’s the same story. WWE makes no attempts to stick to any draft. Andrade was drafted to SmackDown, but if WWE decides to have him get into a fight with a Raw wrestler, he’ll show up there. The draft rules are as meaningful as a politician’s promises.
I don’t think they should do a draft for a long, long time.
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Post by driver1980 on May 15, 2024 12:04:47 GMT -5
Great DVD artwork:  |
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Post by codystarbuck on May 15, 2024 14:12:07 GMT -5
Great DVD artwork: Ugh...those contact lenses....dumb idea. |
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