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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2023 3:56:57 GMT -5
An underrated tournament for me is King of the Ring ‘94. While none of the matches were long, they had an impact, whether it be 1-2-3 Kid VS Owen Hart, or Razor Ramon VS Owen in the final. It all seemed so important and heated. And Hart’s controversial win over Ramon shocked me, I truly expected a Bad Guy coronation.
With a revisionist head on, given how KOTR became an afterthought with each passing year, I have fond memories of 1994.
WM IV would have benefited from fewer matches. As Cody stated, give Valentine 20 minutes. Roberts and Rude was good, but pointless given the ending. A leaner tournament would have made the card so much better. All the matches just flew by.
I remember smiling at Ventura’s commentary after Hogan did his Hulkamania routine following his match with Andre. He said something like, “I have never seen a guy so ecstatic about being knocked out of a championship tournament.”
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2023 3:58:14 GMT -5
That reminds me, on the likes of WWF Superstars, during 94/95, a voiceover would say, “The World Wrestling Federation, for over 50 years the legendary force in sports entertainment.” (I may be paraphrasing) For over 50 years? In 1994/95? So, sports entertainment began in the early 1940s? Oh, okay… Well, the whole "sports entertainment" thing was Vince trying to get out from under athletic commission oversight and taxes applied to sporting events, vs entertainment shows. That was part of why he went public with matches being a show, with pre-determined outcomes, to get New Jersey to deregulate them, so they could do shows in the Meadowlands, without the heavier taxes. Gov Christine Todd Whitman was instrumental in getting that altered (no doubt after big contributions from Vince) There was a news piece of Undertaker with Whitman, at a press conference about the issue.... Now, the McMahon family has been involved in pro wrestling going back to the 1930s (maybe a little earlier) with Jess McMahon, who promoted shows in the New York area. In 1953, his son, Vincent J McMahon, started the Capitol Wrestling Corporation, promoting matches in the area, along with Toots Mondt, who had been part of the Golddust Trio, who ran wrestling in the 20s and 30s. After they were broken up, Mondt got involved with New York promoter Jack Curley. After Curley died, the McMahon's got involved with Mondt. Jess McMahon died in 1954 and Vincent J ran things, until he sold out to his son, Vincent K McMahon (our Vince) in 1982, as Vince Sr sold to Vince Jr's Titan Sports company. So, yeah, depending on the demarcation you used, you could claim 50+ years, in 1994/95, or even pearly 50 years. The NWA, which was the oldest promotional organization operating, only went back to 1948. They claimed lineage for the title back to Frank Gotch, in 1905; but, that was after some twists and turns. That claim is largely based on the merger of Lou Thesz's St Louis group, which recognized the National Wrestling Association title, which went back to 1929. Thesz held that title when Sam Muchnick was promoting a rival group. However, the Thesz group was stronger, in the city. The 1948 NWA was built around Pinkie George's promotion, that ran through Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska and Minnesota; Al Haft's promotion in Columbus, OH, Tony Stecher in Minneapolis, Harry Light, in Detroit, and Orville Brown, in Kansas City. Orville Brown was voted their first champion, as he already held the Midwest Wrestling Association title. However, he was involved in an auto accident, which ended his ring career. Muchnick brokered a truce and merger with Thesz's group and the Alliance recognized Thesz as their champion. Thesz then defeated Baron Leone, in LA, to win their version and became the "undisputed," world champion and defended the title, until 1957, when he had his first retirement (semi-retirement, anyway), with a swap with Whipper Billy Warson and two contested matches, with Leo Nominelli (an ex-NFL great) and Edouard Carpentier. Gagne's AWA (there were a couple of previous AWA groups) started up in 1957, after the Carpentier situation, when Omaha recognized Carpentier and had him lose to Gagne (he also set up the WWA title, in LA, with similar situations). The NWA was never one promotion; just a conglomerate of promotions, with the world title owned by the board and booked by the president of the Alliance. However, it continued to legally exist, even when it didn't really have active promoters. That was why WCW couldn't use the NWA title, anymore, for that period, until they made the deal to bring the NWA title back, via Japan and then have Flair win it again, with it becoming the WCW International belt, when that broke apart. The NWA maintained trademark on the name and physical ownership of the title, even though they didn't own Flair's belt, since Crockett had paid for it independently. The Crocketts had been promoting since 1935, with Jim Sr, then Jim Jr, until the sold to Turner, in 1989. However, Crockett got back into it, for a short time, in the early 90s. Muchnick, in St Louis, and Gagne, in Minneapolis had the next oldest promotions, with Muchnick dating from 1941-1982, and Gagne from officially 1960, but he had points in Omaha, since at least 1957, to 1991. Most of the other promoters only ran back about 20 years, before they started closing shop. The Fuller family, cumulatively, dated back to the 40s, but they were done by about 1988, apart from a brief return by Ron Fuller, in the late 90s, in Knoxville. My main issue is with the term ‘sports entertainment’. That surely was not terminology until the mid-80s?
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 28, 2023 10:48:29 GMT -5
Well, the whole "sports entertainment" thing was Vince trying to get out from under athletic commission oversight and taxes applied to sporting events, vs entertainment shows. That was part of why he went public with matches being a show, with pre-determined outcomes, to get New Jersey to deregulate them, so they could do shows in the Meadowlands, without the heavier taxes. Gov Christine Todd Whitman was instrumental in getting that altered (no doubt after big contributions from Vince) There was a news piece of Undertaker with Whitman, at a press conference about the issue.... Now, the McMahon family has been involved in pro wrestling going back to the 1930s (maybe a little earlier) with Jess McMahon, who promoted shows in the New York area. In 1953, his son, Vincent J McMahon, started the Capitol Wrestling Corporation, promoting matches in the area, along with Toots Mondt, who had been part of the Golddust Trio, who ran wrestling in the 20s and 30s. After they were broken up, Mondt got involved with New York promoter Jack Curley. After Curley died, the McMahon's got involved with Mondt. Jess McMahon died in 1954 and Vincent J ran things, until he sold out to his son, Vincent K McMahon (our Vince) in 1982, as Vince Sr sold to Vince Jr's Titan Sports company. So, yeah, depending on the demarcation you used, you could claim 50+ years, in 1994/95, or even pearly 50 years. The NWA, which was the oldest promotional organization operating, only went back to 1948. They claimed lineage for the title back to Frank Gotch, in 1905; but, that was after some twists and turns. That claim is largely based on the merger of Lou Thesz's St Louis group, which recognized the National Wrestling Association title, which went back to 1929. Thesz held that title when Sam Muchnick was promoting a rival group. However, the Thesz group was stronger, in the city. The 1948 NWA was built around Pinkie George's promotion, that ran through Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska and Minnesota; Al Haft's promotion in Columbus, OH, Tony Stecher in Minneapolis, Harry Light, in Detroit, and Orville Brown, in Kansas City. Orville Brown was voted their first champion, as he already held the Midwest Wrestling Association title. However, he was involved in an auto accident, which ended his ring career. Muchnick brokered a truce and merger with Thesz's group and the Alliance recognized Thesz as their champion. Thesz then defeated Baron Leone, in LA, to win their version and became the "undisputed," world champion and defended the title, until 1957, when he had his first retirement (semi-retirement, anyway), with a swap with Whipper Billy Warson and two contested matches, with Leo Nominelli (an ex-NFL great) and Edouard Carpentier. Gagne's AWA (there were a couple of previous AWA groups) started up in 1957, after the Carpentier situation, when Omaha recognized Carpentier and had him lose to Gagne (he also set up the WWA title, in LA, with similar situations). The NWA was never one promotion; just a conglomerate of promotions, with the world title owned by the board and booked by the president of the Alliance. However, it continued to legally exist, even when it didn't really have active promoters. That was why WCW couldn't use the NWA title, anymore, for that period, until they made the deal to bring the NWA title back, via Japan and then have Flair win it again, with it becoming the WCW International belt, when that broke apart. The NWA maintained trademark on the name and physical ownership of the title, even though they didn't own Flair's belt, since Crockett had paid for it independently. The Crocketts had been promoting since 1935, with Jim Sr, then Jim Jr, until the sold to Turner, in 1989. However, Crockett got back into it, for a short time, in the early 90s. Muchnick, in St Louis, and Gagne, in Minneapolis had the next oldest promotions, with Muchnick dating from 1941-1982, and Gagne from officially 1960, but he had points in Omaha, since at least 1957, to 1991. Most of the other promoters only ran back about 20 years, before they started closing shop. The Fuller family, cumulatively, dated back to the 40s, but they were done by about 1988, apart from a brief return by Ron Fuller, in the late 90s, in Knoxville. My main issue is with the term ‘sports entertainment’. That surely was not terminology until the mid-80s? It wasn't. That didn't start up until after Hogan won the title, as far as I recall. I don't think they were using that tag line, on the syndicated show, until about 1985; but, it is hard to narrow down when I first heard it. Prior to that the MSG matches, on the USA Network, were always listed as pro wrestling and they emphasized "wrestling," because that is what sold tickets and drew ratings. Their first tv show, on USA, was All-American Wrestling. The WWF Superstars syndicated show started in 1986 (replacing WWF Championship Wrestling) and that is where I think I first heard them using the term, in the intro to the show. Again, that was Vince trying to distinguish what he was doing from the other promotions. If you look at their earlier tv and the Superstars show, the production values are much different. So, I would point to 1986-ish for them using the term and glitzing up the production. I suspect the seeds of the switch are in the whole Rock N Wrestling Connection thing, with Cyndi Lauper and MTV cross-promoting with the WWF. That was 1984. If I were to hazard a guess, I would say that Crockett acquiring the WCW timeslot, in 1985. By 1986, they were drawing very well and getting top ratings, on a cable station with deep national penetration. The AWA starts up on ESPN, in 1985. They weren't as strong as they had been in 1983; but, they were still in decent shape. I doubt they factor in, as much as Crockett and the desire to sell themselves to the mainstream media, especially after the 20/20 expose, where David Schultz smacked reporter John Stossel upside the head. They got a lot of heat over that. They were already getting more and more cartoony. So, yeah, sometime between 194 and 1986, with it becoming emphasized more in each passing year. It was an evolution, as they still called people wrestlers and used the word wrestling, in commentary, but that slowly changed, until everyone is a WWF Superstar and you get the weird Vince-isms.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2023 12:14:13 GMT -5
I dislike the term because it’s counter-intuitive. When I’ve attended wrestling shows, I don’t tell friends and family that I went to a ‘sports entertainment event’. After I signed up to the WWE/WWF Network, I sold a lot of DVDs, I did not tell people that I had sold ‘sports entertainment DVDs’. It just isn’t a term we use daily.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2023 12:31:26 GMT -5
There’s a part of me that wants Roman Reigns to retain his title at WrestleMania.
I’m thinking that a loss for Cody could be a “Rocky” way of building up to Rhodes/Reigns II at next year’s WrestleMania. It just feels too soon to dethrone Reigns.
Could WWE be bold enough to have Reigns equal or surpass Bruno’s record? Hmm… (I doubt it)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2023 12:46:40 GMT -5
There’s a part of me that wants Roman Reigns to retain his title at WrestleMania. I’m thinking that a loss for Cody could be a “Rocky” way of building up to Rhodes/Reigns II at next year’s WrestleMania. It just feels too soon to dethrone Reigns. Could WWE be bold enough to have Reigns equal or surpass Bruno’s record? Hmm… (I doubt it)
No, no and no.
I want anyone else to win it. Even Dominic Mysterio. I'm fed up of Reigns hogging the title for so long, well over 900 days.
He'll say goodbye to it next Sunday.
Also expect Theory to retain. Looks like Rhea will defeat Charlotte.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2023 12:48:24 GMT -5
On the other hand, Reigns being dethroned opens up some new possibilities to him as a challenger. It’ll be shocking if he does lose, it’ll be surreal seeing him without the belt.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2023 13:38:38 GMT -5
On the other hand, Reigns being dethroned opens up some new possibilities to him as a challenger. It’ll be shocking if he does lose, it’ll be surreal seeing him without the belt.
I think his first challenger will be from within the Bloodline.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2023 15:40:03 GMT -5
I want it to be Omos!!!
Reunite the Hurt Business. Have them go against The Bloodline. I genuinely think the promos would be golden.
Not saying it should happen any time soon, but I could imagine a War Games match…
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2023 18:59:11 GMT -5
If Brock doesn't sign a new contract for about 5 matches per year, and prefers to leave, it might be Omos. But it's still too hard to call, especially since Brock has been punked by Omos 2x in the promos.
Omos needs a win or he'll just be known as the guy who beats up jobbers and midcard talent.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2023 19:09:37 GMT -5
I agree that Omos needs the win. He pinned Bobby Lashley at WrestleMania Backlash 2022, but needed MVP’s help to win the match - and then he and MVP lost a handicap match to Lashley at Hell in a Cell 2022, so Lashley won that feud, I guess. He lost to Braun Strowman at Crown Jewel, and didn’t really make much of an impact in the Royal Rumble (I’d have booked him to do something similar to what Diesel did in 1994).
So, yes, he needs this win. Otherwise we’ll be back to him beating local talent every now and again on Raw.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2023 5:20:45 GMT -5
Twenty five years ago today, WrestleMania XIV aired on PPV: As we all know, the Austin Era began at this PPV. Looking back, he had a short run on the top, when you think about how long the likes of Roman Reigns has been in the main event picture. Austin and Michaels had a reasonable match, despite the limitations of Michaels’ injury. Got to admit, I never understood why Tyson sided with Austin given Austin had got in his face on an episode of Raw. Not sure they ever really made any effort to explain Tyson’s shifting allegiances. I found the undercard to be pretty unmemorable, though, the spectacle of Undertaker/Kane aside. Oh, I suppose Marc Mero & Sable VS Goldust & Luna was better than I ever expected it to be. Is there any truth to the story that Undertaker taped up his fists and threatened to beat up Michaels for real if Michaels did any “funny business” in the ring? I believe Michaels denied it it one of his books, whereas others (Russo?) stated that it’s true. I find it a little hard to believe Michaels was dithering over whether to do the job to Austin. It was going to be Michaels’ last match for a while, anyway, and who wouldn’t want to put Austin over? But, some seem to think there was something going on, which required Undertaker to tape his fists. Perhaps the truth is in between.
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Mar 29, 2023 9:16:34 GMT -5
Well, other than the fact that Michaels was the master of giving up titles without having to lose them in the ring (IC multiple times, tag team, "lost my smile")
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2023 9:23:14 GMT -5
Well, other than the fact that Michaels was the master of giving up titles without having to lose them in the ring (IC multiple times, tag team, "lost my smile") He certainly got creative at times with that, eh?
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 29, 2023 11:02:14 GMT -5
Twenty five years ago today, WrestleMania XIV aired on PPV: As we all know, the Austin Era began at this PPV. Looking back, he had a short run on the top, when you think about how long the likes of Roman Reigns has been in the main event picture. Austin and Michaels had a reasonable match, despite the limitations of Michaels’ injury. Got to admit, I never understood why Tyson sided with Austin given Austin had got in his face on an episode of Raw. Not sure they ever really made any effort to explain Tyson’s shifting allegiances. I found the undercard to be pretty unmemorable, though, the spectacle of Undertaker/Kane aside. Oh, I suppose Marc Mero & Sable VS Goldust & Luna was better than I ever expected it to be. Is there any truth to the story that Undertaker taped up his fists and threatened to beat up Michaels for real if Michaels did any “funny business” in the ring? I believe Michaels denied it it one of his books, whereas others (Russo?) stated that it’s true. I find it a little hard to believe Michaels was dithering over whether to do the job to Austin. It was going to be Michaels’ last match for a while, anyway, and who wouldn’t want to put Austin over? But, some seem to think there was something going on, which required Undertaker to tape his fists. Perhaps the truth is in between. Cornette, who was still there, at the time, says it is true. He's not above embellishing a good story; but, he has generally been verifiable in most of his recollections. He described Undertaker taping his fists, sitting at the Gorilla Position, watching the match on the monitor; then, when Shawn did the job, he stood up, started unwrapping the tape and went back to the locker room. Michaels has proven to be an unreliable source for just about everything, including the beatdown by the Marine, backstage politics and his fight with Bret. Personally, I thought Bret acted like an ass, at the end of his run; but, I still think he had a point about rewarding Shawn, when he caused so much trouble and outright stated he wouldn't do the same, in reverse. Brett was a bit too full of himself to recognize he didn't win the title, he was awarded it in the booking and he was returning it in the same fashion. The obvious alternative was to have him drop it to someone else, who would then be beaten by Shawn. However, the whole situation with Bret and Shawn's actions in not dropping the title in other circumstances gives a lot of evidence in support of Undertaker giving him an ultimatum, even if he didn't tape up his fists.
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