shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,269
|
Post by shaxper on May 6, 2019 21:35:18 GMT -5
A decade back, Crimebuster convinced me to read Life with Archie: The Married Life, which soon became one of my favorite comic series of all time. From there, it took some time, but I gradually gave more and more attention to standard ol' Archie comics, first as a curiosity, then as a comic I could share with my daughters, and now I'm seriously starting to get enamored. I mean, it's not like your post-Silver Age superhero comics. Continuity is virtually non-existent, and each issue is a series of disposable adventures, but it's FUN and addictive. I keep wanting to spend more time in this world with these characters I now know so well. And yet, there's still so little I know. There are COUNTLESS Archie titles, most with their own distinct identities. Crimebuster convinced us all a while back that the original Life with Archie was the most experimental of the bunch, but I'm trying to figure out what each other core Archie title is about. Here's what I (think I) know so far: Archie: Seems like the default no-brainer title. I've enjoyed nearly every issue I've read. Pep: I've read very little of Pep, but it seems the same as Archie, more or less. Obviously, Pep is where Archie first started. Betty and Veronica: The girls and I read this one the most. Good characterization, for the most part. Betty and Me: Veronica is always an ass, Archie is always an ass, and Betty is only more sympathetic in contrast because she repeatedly allows the other two to abuse her. Not sure if this is true of every issue, but it's what I've seen before. I absolutely hate it. Archie's Joke Book: Single page gags that are seldom ever funny. Reggie and Me: Won't even try it. Reggie is the only character in the Archie universe that I don't care for even slightly. I'd sooner read a Mr. Weatherbee comic. Actually, that would be awesome. Jughead: Believe it or not, I've never read these. I love Jughead as a supporting character, but I can't envision him as a compelling protagonist. So are these semi fair assessments of the core titles? If my primary focii for buying right now are Life with Archie, Archie, and Betty and Veronica, am I missing out on something worthwhile?
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on May 6, 2019 22:59:51 GMT -5
Life With Archie is a must; but, so are the Little Archie stories. There was some really clever stuff going on there. They were more than just pint-sized versions of the originals; they had their own little world and additional characters and it is considered one of the more inventive Archie books.
Jughead was usually good stuff, in his own title. I read this stuff sporadically; but, saw a few Jugheads and they were usually good reads.
Life With Archie, in the 60s, is used for things like the Archie characters as superheroes (Pureheart, Super Teen, Captain Hero, etc) and the spy spoof The Man From RIVERDALE.
|
|
|
Post by Reptisaurus! on May 7, 2019 2:26:28 GMT -5
Life With Archie is a must; but, so are the Little Archie stories. Yeah, the Bob Bolling/Little Archie stuff is the only title I really collect/know about. (I'm mostly out of my depth on this thread.) But it's great! Weirdly darker and more adventure-story than comedy romance. I'd absolutely compare the best of Little Archie to Carl Barks.
|
|
shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,269
|
Post by shaxper on May 7, 2019 6:32:31 GMT -5
I'd absolutely compare the best of Little Archie to Carl Barks. WOW
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on May 7, 2019 6:55:27 GMT -5
So are these semi fair assessments of the core titles? If my primary focii for buying right now are Life with Archie, Archie, and Betty and Veronica, am I missing out on something worthwhile? More on this later. I was a fairly big Archie Comics collector of the monthlies, digests and TBPs over the decades, and its a line that could be argued to have some of the great moments of 20th century comics. That's a position few will share (as most comic history focuses entirely too much on capes and cowls), but at its best, Archie was one of the key reasons that transformed the medium from "funny books" to great modern myth.
|
|
|
Post by Cei-U! on May 7, 2019 7:39:52 GMT -5
So are these semi fair assessments of the core titles? If my primary focii for buying right now are Life with Archie, Archie, and Betty and Veronica, am I missing out on something worthwhile? More on this later. I was a fairly big Archie Comics collector of the monthlies, digests and TBPs over the decades, and its a line that could be argued to have some of the great moments of 20th century comics. That's a position few will share (as most comic history focuses entirely too much on capes and cowls), but at its best, Archie was one of the key reasons that transformed the medium from "funny books" to great modern myth. I agree, which is why Archie has such a prominent role in my forthcoming book. The prewar Bob Montana material is brilliant... and hilarious.
Cei-U! I summon the Riverdale regulars!
|
|
|
Post by brutalis on May 7, 2019 8:50:19 GMT -5
Archie. Was always there on the racks as various monthly issues for you whenever there was nothing else to interest you each week. Always a presence at the grocery store in the check out line with digests as an impulse buy. Archie has just always been there in some form or another for so long that folks take the line for granted. Like anything when there is so much of it being produced Archie comics run the gamut from the good to bad to mediocre and to why did they publish this?
I was never a regular Archie comics purchaser growing up in the mid 70's as my nickels and dimes were too few and precious. So instead whenever visiting my cousins I would read their issues and enjoy them. As I got older and could afford spending more on monthly comics in the late 70's and early 80's, then Archie was the go to when nothing new came out each week or there wasn't anything catching my eye. At that time Betty and Veronica was easily the go to series of choice as it just seemed to have better stories and art (can you say Dan DeCarlo is AWESOME) on a steady basis. Jughead was always the other choice of Archie comics for me.
Once my shopping turned to the LCS then Archie was left behind for there was always something new or different appearing every week in competition for my money. I found Archie again through chance when in 2013 Barnes and Nobles had the 1st 2 Archie 1000 page digest sized collections on mark down during the holiday season. For $3.00 each I had 2000 pages of classic Archie from his beginnings through current as a great mix and match inside both books. I was hooked again finding new joy in reading what was mostly "new" stories which I had never seen before. I reconnected to my youth opening memories I thought I had left behind me as an adult. I was finding great pleasure in these simple, funny and often times touchingly heartfelt comic stories all told in 5-7 pages. From there on I have simply pre-ordered from Amazon (for discount pricing) any 1000 page books as announced. No regrets or recriminations for reading as an "old man" what is essentially a children's/teen funny book.
Archie has totally changed and in some ways lost what it was and that which made it great. In trying to compete with current comic book trends the company has gone dark and edgy with horror twists of every character (some good, some bad) in trying to make bigger sales. No Archie series seems to maintain a core following anymore or last more than a year as the company now has re-invented itself. I still pick up some of the current Archie things but not as a monthly, waiting for TPB collections since the monthly now is a single story with multiple issues to tell things which could once be told in 5 pages.
But yes, CLASSIC Archie comic books have a ton of history, significance and meaning behind all those old yellowing pages if people want some truly entertaining and sometimes silly life stories reflecting many of the cultural, times and relationships of growing up. Well worth investing some time to reading...
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 7, 2019 9:40:37 GMT -5
Another "vote" for Jughead. Often I preferred his title to the main Archie title. It was more "offbeat" than Archie. And like brutalis stated above Archie Comics provide a glimpse into modern USA history. I LOVE collections that show the changes thru the decades. I have said this before... if I had to teach a modern American history class I would make some of the Archie collections part of the required reading.
|
|
|
Post by MDG on May 7, 2019 9:46:07 GMT -5
Life With Archie, in the 60s, is used for things like the Archie characters as superheroes (Pureheart, Super Teen, Captain Hero, etc) and the spy spoof The Man From RIVERDALE. These are the ones I remember most. Oddly, I don't remember buying any Archies off the stands, and can't imaging myself choosing an Archie book if there were any DCs or Dell/Gold Key horror books available. I seem to have gotten most of them at rummage sales, etc. But I was a heavy reader for a while, and have gone back to picking up 12- or 15-centers now if i see them cheap.
Life with Archie would also have the characters in places like Ancient Rome or caveman times with no explanation.
I'd absolutely compare the best of Little Archie to Carl Barks. WOW I'd agree that maybe the best or Bolling is up there with Barks or Stanley. I got one of the TPBs that came out a while back--they don't seem quite as re-readable as the Docks or Little Lulu.
I agree, which is why Archie has such a prominent role in my forthcoming book. The prewar Bob Montana material is brilliant... and hilarious. Some 40s Archie art puts me off a little--I'm not a big fan until DeCarlo becomes the house model.
In the past year or so, a Russian artist named Svetna Shubina has emerged and become popular in some circles. She started out doing dead-on Caniff-style pinups, but now works in a a dead-on Decarlo style.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 7, 2019 10:09:45 GMT -5
Big fan of Archie comics here. My favorite titles are Archie, Archie's Pals N Gals, Betty and Veronica, and Reggie and Me. It's funny that you don't like Reggie--he is my favorite, haha (one of my favorite stories features him and Betty falling for each other--shocking to them both) ! I also like Josie and the Pussycats (I always seemed to think they were a bit older than Archie and his crew, although some stories had them still in high school. They always struck me as being more college age for some reason). Sabrina is fun too. Pep and Laugh are fun titles as you can see some the b list characters get stories as well as That Wilkin Boy and Lil' Jinx. I didn't read Jughead that often, but Samm Schwartz's art on Jughead is a visual treat--he pulls off gags like no one else. Also love Harry Lucey's elegant looking Archie art. Of course, Dan DeCarlo is king. The stories are fun as they are a portrait of teen attitudes, fashions, and pop culture of the time. It seems like the funnier stories are from the older eras, but anything Archie can still brighten my day.
|
|
Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,902
|
Post by Crimebuster on May 7, 2019 10:27:38 GMT -5
Okay, let's see... For me, one of the biggest things with Archie books is the creative team. And with that, the creative direction of the line as a whole. There are some teams that are just great, and some eras that are better than others because of editorial direction. For example, I think the 70's as a whole is the most bland era; once the line became incredibly popular around 1969 thanks to the cartoons, there was a homogenization of the line as they tried to offend no one and appeal to the broadest possible audience. This is also when we got the Spire Christian books, so this sort of wholesome thing took over. It's synonymous with Archie now, but previous eras were more daring and even sometimes risque, leading to often better and edgier material. For me personally, I think the late 50's/early 60's is maybe the best era, but that's in part because the genius Harry Lucey was at his peak during this time. There's a sort of dry, sly wit to a lot of stories in this era that is more sophisticated than some of the (very funny) earlier stuff, and sharper than the later watered down stuff. The whole line did a soft relaunch from like 1987-1991, and there's a ton of weird material from this period, and the books that followed in the 90's and 00's benefited by feeling fresher and more up to date as they moved away from the DeCarlo house style and let people spread their wings more. It's a bit difficult to judge things by title, as the tone and direction of individual titles would change over the decades. But here are my thoughts on what I have read. Mind you, in order to keep from going mad, I have focused on five (originally four) titles, but I have picked up a number of other books in lots so I have some general sense of things. Jughead is my favorite character, and my favorite title. It's not perfect, of course; every Archie character can be reduced to an archetype, with a handful of quirks, and at their worst, their stories become boring cliches repeated over and over. For Jughead, this means you will have a solid portion of every era where writers phone in stories bout either girl hating or eating hamburgers. Now, these can also be funny, but there are a lot of these that are just the same tedious single joke repeated for decades. So why is this book and character my favorite? Because at his best, Jughead is the quirkiest, cleverest of the Archie gang. His stories most often break out of those Archie comic cliches into weirdness, or into sly commentary. In the late 50's and early-mid 60's, the series had Samm Schwartz at his peak doing some real oddball stories. Schwartz stayed on the book into the 80's, and there are consistently gems throughout the run. Volume 2, though, I like even more. The first hundred issues try several different scenarios to try and keep Jughead fresh (he's a skater! he's i a love triangle! he has a baby sister!) but in the second hundred issues, the team of writer Craig Boldman and Rex W. Lindesy turned in my favorite run in Archie comics, with consistently fun stories. The last year of the title was maybe the best — issue #200, the four part Jughead Jones: Semi-Private Eye arc, and the six part "Movin' In" arc are all fantastic. The Reggie issue of "Movin' In" is one of my all-time favorites. Archie as a title is the standard. The title's best days are the early ones. There's a lot of great stuff in the main title through the mid-late 60's. After that, you know. It's fine. I personally think the book suffered from the exceptionally long run of artist Stan Goldberg, who started in a solid DeCarlo house style and slowly evolved what I call the "Fat Archie" style, where everyone seems to have put on an extra 15 pounds in their faces. There's a lot of solid but uninspired stuff from, like, #200-600. Starting with the "Archie Marries..." arc in #600, the title got a lot more experimental and random, with stuff like Archie Meets Kiss, and Reversedale, where everyone is gender flipped. Then with the new #1 (old #667) the classic era ended and the new era started. I like it fine, but it's certainly different. I will say for people who miss the old style, they are actually still publishing comics in the classic Archie style, but the new material in this vein is appearing in the digests. Pep for me is the worst of the main titles, at least the ones I actively collect. Pep was the flagship title for the company, which was more than just Archie. So, as an anthology, you can expect a weird mish-mash - usually one Archie story to start the issue, then you'll get a Lil Jinx in most issues, and then... Wilbur, That Wilkin Boy, a story featuring a second banana like Moose, whatever they have lying around. I have a weird fascination with the Marvelous Maureen strip from the end of the title because it's so idiosyncratically bad that it's kind of charming. But this title is not great. I have the impression that the long-running companion series Laugh is similar in quality, but I haven't read enough to say for sure. Life with Archie I've discussed at length before. For me personally, the superhero spoofs, the Man from RIVERDALE and The Archies stories from around #42-70 or so are the worst. I know some people like them, but not me. I like the long form, more serious adventure dramas that started the run and formed the bulk of the title's long run. There's a lot of really cool stuff here. Riverdale High is another title I've started collecting that I think goes under the radar. Like Life with Archie, it usually has more serious, longer form stories. Unlike LIfe with Archie, these usually aren't fantastic adventures, but more high school drama stuff. I've discovered that this title could just have easily have been called Chuck and Me, because Chuck Clayton co-stars in most of the stories for the bulk of the title's run. This series went for over 100 issues, but is mostly forgotten now. Betty and Me isn't my thing. I haven't read enough to really comment, except to say that there are a couple issues I always look for because people will pay good money for them (#16 and #40 if you're interested). The only issues I actually collect for myself are from a short run around #79-86 called Betty Cooper, Better Cooper. This was a parody of the prime time soap opera Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman, and is written in a tongue-in-cheek, way over the top melodrama, with absurd plot twists like Betty getting kidnapped, or attacked by a lecherous genie, or having an uncle who's a vampire. Or getting possessed by a witch: I will say that the Betty solo series that replaced Betty and Me after the relaunch in the late 80's was a lot better, as she became less of a doormat and more of a well rounded character. Betty and Veronica I haven't read enough to say, though I've probably had over 100 issues so far. I'm not a big Veronica fan, so these don't interest me that much. The second volume of this series — and the Veronica solo series - were both mainly done by Dan Parent over the last decade or so, so if you like his stuff, that's the place to go for it. As for Little Archie, I have heard only great things about it. it's held in very high esteem by most Archie fans due to the work of Bob Bolling. However, as I have mentioned before, I just loathe the whole "child/baby version of adult characters" trope. I hate the X-Babies, the Muppet Babies, all that bulldookie. It just makes my teeth itch. Maybe at some point I will workup the incredible willpower needed to read Little Archie, but I just can't bring myself to do it. For fans of the magazine Life with Archie series, Little Archie is where the character Ambrose is from. I'm sure I'll think of more later, but those are my initial thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 7, 2019 11:21:27 GMT -5
I loved all Archies Titles ... hands down.
|
|
|
Post by beccabear67 on May 7, 2019 11:33:01 GMT -5
I used to love the Little Archie stories that were reprinted in various '70s digests. Great art and characterizations. I always wondered what became of Little Ambrose though, he didn't seem to make it to teenager or Riverdale High. I guess I grew up with the Dan DeCarlo or people of the style in the late '60s-'70s Archies plus the tv cartoon and incredibly good record albums (at least they all were after the very first one which had only a couple standout tracks). It was strange for me to see something from the '50s or earlier though I can appreciate it now. The '50s style was very heavy, almost like a machine stamped it out, the Mad parody in the early '50s by Elder played that up a bit too. The '40s versions were a lot more like the Andy Hardy (and Polly) tv serials/films which I'm sure inspired Archie. Of the secondary series Sabrina and Josie & the Pussycats were pretty cool. Didn't like Super Duck reprints in the digests at all, and there was some kind of chubby bear character I glimpsed once or twice that I was strangely indifferent to. That Wilkin Boy was a bit second-string but okay. Later I got some of the first Cheryl Blossom for the novelty of someone breaking into the Archie-Veronica-Betty triangle. I wondered what took so long to have thought her up. Other than an Expo 86 special Archie though these were the only Archies I would buy after the late '70s, although when I participated in a 'Santa anonymous' charity drive I would buy jeans for a teen and put a new Archie digest in the back pocket.
|
|
|
Post by MDG on May 7, 2019 11:37:23 GMT -5
Let's not forget this two-issue experiment: "straight" horror stories, not too far from what DC was prublishing at tyhe time, but drawn in the Archie house style...
|
|
Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,902
|
Post by Crimebuster on May 7, 2019 12:23:49 GMT -5
I always wondered what became of Little Ambrose though, he didn't seem to make it to teenager or Riverdale High. In the Life with Archie series from a few years ago, Archie reunited with an adult Ambrose. Ambrose moved back to Riverdale, and he and Archie opened a music venue. Then there was a mind-bending plot twist: In Life with Archie there were two alternate future realities - one where Archie married Veronica, and one where he married Betty. Ambrose turned out to have a superpower where he could visit and move between these alternate realities, and all others. It turned out that all the Little Archie adventures were all real, and the result of Ambrose's latent powers moving him and Little Archie to different worlds where they would do whatever - become pirates, etc. In the end he saved the multi-verse by using his power to unleash dozens of alternate versions of Archie and Reggie. It was a cool comic book story, but it did break the grounded, real life conceit of the title, in a way that I think was ultimately fatal to the title. But in pure comic book terms, it was sure interesting, as it was basically the Archie version of Crisis on Infinite Earths!
|
|