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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 14:02:30 GMT -5
I dunno what comic book shops are "closing" so the topic creator is either just trolling and making up lies etc. No trolling from me, the topic creator (why would you think that?). Some comic stores have closed. One reads about it frequently, some of them having been open for decades.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 16:25:03 GMT -5
Bleeding Cool keeps a running tally of shops that close that they know of. IIRC, there were over 30 shops they reported closing in January and February alone. They also report new stories opening. I haven't seen a dozen of those yet this year. There's a lot of shops hanging on by the skin of their teeth, hoping they make enough on this week's releases to pay next week's Diamond invoice. They're one bad week from not being able to afford the next week's books, which means they are likely one bad week away from closing. Certainly there are shops doing well, but cash flow in small business is always the biggest challenge, and it's particularly true in comics where (with very few exceptions for the biggest accounts) you have to basically pay C.O.D. on Diamond deliveries or you don't get your books for the week.
What could be a bad week-bad weather keeping people from coming out, one or two of your big pull customers stiffing you on books or a high ticket item (like a $400-$500 statue a high ticket 1:x variant, or whatever), UPS having a mix up and getting your books a few days late (or not at all) leaving your customers buying their stuff elsewhere, having a key book allocated or damaged so you don't have enough copies to meet demand again sending your customers elsewhere, a lease expiring and a landlord increasing rent, an insurance carrier upping their rates on a policy renewal, an unexpected maintenance expense that the store owner has to cover (HVAC for example, or roof, or fixtures breaking, etc.). Essentially there's a lot more ways for a shop to have a really bad week than there is for them to have an unusually good week.
-M
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Post by impulse on May 6, 2019 9:23:08 GMT -5
It's not just comics, either. Retail is taking a beating in general where big-name brand stores are shutting down. There is a used CD, DVD, record, etc, store near me that I am just shocked is still open. I almost wonder if the owner is some otherwise wealthy person who just does this for fun.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 10:11:01 GMT -5
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,868
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Post by shaxper on May 10, 2019 13:45:34 GMT -5
It's about being sporting. I do buy *some* books online. But if I attend a book club based on the store's premises, that's one of many occasions where I will buy a book from that store. I always maintain a pull list, even if it's only one book, and even if it's one I don't particularly want. I'm paying for the culture/climate more than the book, and $4 a month is worth it. Same reason I'll buy a $4 cup of coffee at a coffee shop. I'm paying for the right to sit on the couch and read moreso than for the coffee. That being said, I do not buy trades or high mark-up items from my LCS. The savings through Amazon are too damn tempting. But I absolutely do impulse buys at the store, especially when a fresh stack of back issues comes in.
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Post by brutalis on May 10, 2019 14:00:27 GMT -5
It's not just comics, either. Retail is taking a beating in general where big-name brand stores are shutting down. There is a used CD, DVD, record, etc, store near me that I am just shocked is still open. I almost wonder if the owner is some otherwise wealthy person who just does this for fun. Possibly or the owner just likes those things. I know in the past having spoken with used bookstore owners that most were NOT in it for the money but because the loved books and the autonomy of running their own business and doing/working how they wanted to. As long as the shop makes enough money to cover the cost of the shop (utilities/personal income/etc) then they are content until it becomes too much work for them. Also depends on the help you hire. I know for a fact 2 of the local LCS owners here are still in operation only because the have reliable/strong/trustworthy store managers who do all the work for them. The rest of the staff are younger and come and go every few months. Both owners have told me (as in try to get me to buy them out) that they can't find anybody these days who understands the difficulty and hard work a LCS requires to succeed. When they get asked to sell it is always for a way under cheap cost that doesn't reflect the actual business and revenue that the LCS produces. Both have also said that when they decide to "retire" or call it quits unless their current Manager wishes to buy them out then their shops will close up for good. Be shame as both have been around for the long haul and are the only 2 remaining LCS from the 80's that survived and have a great reputation. Their closing will be a big loss to the entire concept of the LCS/comics storefront here in Phoenix. Every other LCS here seems to either treat comics as the last piece of their store with a stronger focus on gaming cards or big dollar statues. They only have a small corner meant to draw in a few new or regular customers for a pull box. Several literally do NOT even carry much in the way of new comics each week and unless you have a pull box they don't order for putting out on the shelf, instead having a small (4-6) boxes of used comics or left overs which weren't bought from the pull box owners.
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Post by brutalis on May 10, 2019 14:17:38 GMT -5
It's about being sporting. I do buy *some* books online. But if I attend a book club based on the store's premises, that's one of many occasions where I will buy a book from that store. I always maintain a pull list, even if it's only one book, and even if it's one I don't particularly want. I'm paying for the culture/climate more than the book, and $4 a month is worth it. Same reason I'll buy a $4 cup of coffee at a coffee shop. I'm paying for the right to sit on the couch and read moreso than for the coffee. That being said, I do not buy trades or high mark-up items from my LCS. The savings through Amazon are too damn tempting. But I absolutely do impulse buys at the store, especially when a fresh stack of back issues comes in. I too used to do this Shax and maintain a pull box to show my LCS owner my dedication. But over time the staff have ruined this by either pulling issues from my box for others or placing MORE stuff into my box that I never requested or wanted. One time I actually had one of the "staff" (not the owner or the manager) calling me and "demanding" I purchase everything that was in my pull box when I was in to get my stuff. The staff member was "ANGRY" that I had taken out of the pile ALL the extra crap which he or someone else had loaded my box with. Because I am an Avenger Fan they had stuck in every variant and every comic which was "related" to Avengers but were not on my pull list. I actually left the LCS and called the owner (longtime guy of 10 years I have known from several shops who started his own) to let him know what this staff employee was trying to do. Owner came right over since he lived a few blocks away and went in and fired the employee right then and there. But of course the owner never had very good staff because the pay is nothing and several months pass and the same exact thing occurs. Now, that shop has closed up and the nearest LCS to me is a newer family run (for about 5 years) shop which I support by going in once a month and digging through back issues and paying full cover price for those few new monthly comics I buy (rather than get 10% off with a pull list) and pre-ordering toys and or prints and such and keep a strong connection with the owner and his wife. My time in their store I do try to make important for them by taking my time, visiting with them, searching for new and interesting comics, talking comics new and classic) with them or other shoppers and making sure that my spending isn't just a token $20 purchase. I want them knowing I appreciate their shop and that I CHOOSE to go to them for most of my comic book needs. They understand they cannot compete for TPB/Omnibus costs on Amazon so they do their best to appeal to the monthly and independent and toys crowd of shoppers.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 14:27:13 GMT -5
I'm hearing this a lot, people having things put in their "pull box" that they didn't request. Most bizarre.
It hasn't happened to me. In any city I've lived in (UK). Was I lucky? Or is it a US 'thing'?
I don't understand the logic. Why second-guess people? I often talk about the 80s Batman and the Outsiders title with comic shop staff, but they didn't put the new series in my "pull box". Why? Because I have expressed no desire for it. I can't afford too many books right now. Someone in another LCS may have done that very thing.
The simplest thing to do would be to simply recommend something. In Forbidden Planet, an employee who knows me well might say something like, "If you like Batman, then perhaps this Image book might appeal." Or, "You like the 80s, right? This is a title set in the 80s." Always my choice, though.
It's presumptuous to put stuff in "pull boxes" that no-one asked for. Not to mention time-consuming for the staff. I only have one item in my "pull box": Back Issue. I can only afford a limited amount of comics so I don't become a regular reader necessarily (the two books I am buying now are James Bond: Origin and Immortal Hulk). But I wouldn't be pleased if someone was putting, say, Alter Ego in my "pull box" and telling me, "I thought you might like it, TwoMorrows publishes it and as a Back Issue reader, you might enjoy it."
On another note, regarding subscribers not picking up titles, is there a reason why comic stores don't ask for a deposit? I can think of few businesses that don't require a deposit. Jeez, it's £150 deposit to rent a car here (not that I need to do that, but I did years ago). I had to put a deposit down in HMV when I ordered Season 1 of Stargate years ago. Would the deposit requirement "filter out" the time-wasters? Does any store do it?
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 15:03:28 GMT -5
I'm hearing this a lot, people having things put in their "pull box" that they didn't request. Most bizarre. It hasn't happened to me. In any city I've lived in (UK). Was I lucky? Or is it a US 'thing'? I don't understand the logic. Why second-guess people? I often talk about the 80s Batman and the Outsiders title with comic shop staff, but they didn't put the new series in my "pull box". Why? Because I have expressed no desire for it. I can't afford too many books right now. Someone in another LCS may have done that very thing. The simplest thing to do would be to simply recommend something. In Forbidden Planet, an employee who knows me well might say something like, "If you like Batman, then perhaps this Image book might appeal." Or, "You like the 80s, right? This is a title set in the 80s." Always my choice, though. It's presumptuous to put stuff in "pull boxes" that no-one asked for. Not to mention time-consuming for the staff. I only have one item in my "pull box": Back Issue. I can only afford a limited amount of comics so I don't become a regular reader necessarily (the two books I am buying now are James Bond: Origin and Immortal Hulk). But I wouldn't be pleased if someone was putting, say, Alter Ego in my "pull box" and telling me, "I thought you might like it, TwoMorrows publishes it and as a Back Issue reader, you might enjoy it." On another note, regarding subscribers not picking up titles, is there a reason why comic stores don't ask for a deposit? I can think of few businesses that don't require a deposit. Jeez, it's £150 deposit to rent a car here (not that I need to do that, but I did years ago). I had to put a deposit down in HMV when I ordered Season 1 of Stargate years ago. Would the deposit requirement "filter out" the time-wasters? Does any store do it? If there are multiple shops in the area, and one asks for a deposit and the other doesn't, guess where people are going? Deposits also discourage people from having pulls to begin with, and it makes ordering much more difficult if you don't know what people want, and a mistake in ordering of non-returnable books can be just as costly as a pull list not picked up. Order too few, your customers go other places and lose incentive to come to your shop, order too many and you eat the unsold copies just like if someone doesn't pick up their pull. Either way costs the shop far more in the long run than a deposit might save them. Now some shops do require a deposit on high ticket items like statues or hard to get variants that have little chance of selling if someone doesn't pick them up, but deposits for pull lists often creates a barrier to retaining customers. My shop will sometime put suggestions in the box, but he is cool if you put it back. Sometimes it is related to a property he knows I like or a creator I like, sometimes it's a back issue he knows I have been looking for, and sometimes it's a book he is trying to get more eyes on and promote, or sometimes it's something like the 25 cent DC Nation book DC did a while back or other quarter promo books publishers do but he never requires you buy it. And he usually points out what he added when you come in, so you can make a decision on it. I don't really do a pull list anymore, I instead fill out the pre-order form each month from Previews with exactly what I want each month. This way if I decide to drop a book, he hasn't ordered copies for me 2-3 months ahead of time because that's how Diamond works. You drop a book, the retailer has already ordered the next 2-3 issues for you, and very few customers, even the good ones, are willing to make good on those books and not stick the retailer with them because they do not realize when they set up a pull, they are requesting books 2-3 months in advance of when they are picked up and the retailer has already had to order them for them to make sure copies were available. Same with people who cancel their pulls, 2-3 months of their books have already been ordered and the retailer is stuck with them because that is how the direct market works. It guarantees the publishers and Diamond get their money at zero risk, and places all the risk in the shoulders of the retailers, and then people wonder why so many shop struggle or don't carry extra copies of things or order everything in the catalog and have it available to browse through, etc. The entire model of the system is based on getting comics in the hands of customers who already know what they want. There's little or no flexibility in it for customers changing their mind about what they want or for carrying stock for potential new customers or for dealing with customers who don't buy what they said they wanted. It does what it is supposed to do fairly well, the problem is the industry as a whole now relies on it to do things it was not designed to do and cannot do well, and then wonders why shops fail and there is little to no growth in the readership base and potential customers. It's an out of date business model that puts too much risk on the end seller in a market that is already difficult for such sellers, and it gets not supplemental support from publishers growing and grooming potential customers and bringing them to the marketplace. It has becomes a zero sum game, where one publisher or shop's growth comes at the expense of another publisher or shop. And the more publishers and shops that lose and fall out of the game, the smaller the overall pie they play for gets. And if/when one of the big publishers or Diamond decides it has had enough and pulls out of the game, the whole thing will come crashing down like a house of cards, and unlike when it happened with mass market outlets like newsstands, there is no alternative in place to take up the slack, as digital hasn't gotten to a point where it is viable enough to carry the industry the way the direct market did when newsstands evaporated. The direct market can survive and thrive for a good long while if it doesn't have to carry the burden of the entire industry and if all the risk is not on the retailers, but currently that is how it is set up, which is problematic. But no one with skin in the game seems to want to change it. Retailers bitch when alternate distribution streams are set up (like the Wal Mart books or books intended for the book trade), fans bitch when new formats are tried or when reader-friendly books designed to attract new customers are made and the industry doesn't exclusively cater to the hardcore fan, publishers want to double down and get as much revenue from existing customers through variants, double shipping books, events, x-overs, etc rather than doing the work of creating more new customs, etc. etc. and well eventually output will match input, and if nothing new is being inputted into the system, nothing new will come out of it and the law of diminishing returns will speed up entropy. Until then we simply watch the industry wither away as shop after shop, publisher after publisher shutter its doors and potential new customers get their comic book-based stories in other mediums and spend their money elsewhere, as people remain too stubborn or too blind to make the kind of changes and innovations needed to evolve with the changing times and marketplace. It's easier to just make another notch in your mylar bag to commemorate a fallen comic shop or defunct publisher. -M
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Post by The Captain on May 10, 2019 15:16:35 GMT -5
I'm not going to quote the various people who have contributed to the thread recently, but I'll offer my experiences: I maintain a pull list at my long-time LCS. It is currently at 4 books, 3 for me and 1 for my younger daughter. There has been no point in the past 25 years that I did not have a pull list with this store. I'm much in the same boat as shaxper, in that I keep the pull list now primarily because I like to go in and hang out for a while every week to two weeks, so it's the price I pay for helping keep the lights on and the shelves stocked. I rarely buy any TPBs from my LCS, and certainly not at full price, but that is how I operate with everything in my life. I don't buy DVDs, books, groceries, clothes, or anything else at full retail, so why would I do it there? My LCS occasionally puts things in my folder that I did not request, because the owner has known me for a quarter-century and he thinks I might like to try something, but if I say I'm not interested, he takes it out and puts it on the shelf.
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Post by rberman on May 10, 2019 15:29:08 GMT -5
I rarelygo to LCS, so I guess the answer to “Why are they closing?” Is “me and my ilk.” I follow no ongoing series. I buy almost exclusively trade collections, only resorting to used floppies in rare cases. Eisner was right. The floppy format is a strong negative that exists for historical reasons related to folded newsprint.
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Post by impulse on May 10, 2019 15:29:12 GMT -5
It's not just comics, either. Retail is taking a beating in general where big-name brand stores are shutting down. There is a used CD, DVD, record, etc, store near me that I am just shocked is still open. I almost wonder if the owner is some otherwise wealthy person who just does this for fun. Possibly or the owner just likes those things. I know in the past having spoken with used bookstore owners that most were NOT in it for the money but because the loved books and the autonomy of running their own business and doing/working how they wanted to. As long as the shop makes enough money to cover the cost of the shop (utilities/personal income/etc) then they are content until it becomes too much work for them. That's what I'm saying, though. Business rent in this area is notorious for being really high, and it just blows my mind they could sell enough CDs and DVDs to still be open in 2019. But hey, good for them, and what do I know about it?
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,868
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Post by shaxper on May 11, 2019 8:11:26 GMT -5
But of course the owner never had very good staff because the pay is nothing and several months pass and the same exact thing occurs. This is a major part of the problem, isn't it? LCSes work on small margins, so they can't hire the best. Most people who will work there are there because they love the comics, but that doesn't necessarily make them good at working with customers or running a shop. Sometimes, you get lucky and get someone great who is willing to work hard for far less than they are worth, I suppose. The way my LCS handled it was they found a really quality guy who loved comics, loved customer service, understood the business side, AND knew he was worth far more than they could pay him, so they did a sort of "work-to-own" situation where a portion of each of his pay-checks over ten years was a down-payment towards buying the shop from them. They were in their 50s and were ready to get out. It worked beautifully. And, for the time being, he mostly works the store himself now that he owns it. He has all the incentive in the world to work hard and be proud of the work he does.
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Post by The Captain on May 11, 2019 8:31:42 GMT -5
I worked at a comic book/used book shop during my senior year of college; it was in a small town in central PA. It was the only shop within about a 20 miles radius, and we regularly turned over 250-300 issues of the top titles per month. They also had a great back issue selection, with a lot of high-end books that people traveled to shop.
The owners weren't engaged in the running of the store from the floor; they had some other business interests and stayed, for the most part, in the back of the store and tended to their various operations from there. All of the employees were college kids except for one guy named Barry, who was in his early 30s. He was a local guy and had gone to college in town there, and he married up to a woman who was a psychologist. She made a good living and they had no kids, so Barry took care of the house and worked at the comic book store. He was a walking encyclopedia of comic book lore, anecdotes, and details, and he was a true blessing to the owners; even though they were paying him only slightly more than minimum wage, he was doing it because it gave him some spending money and because he LOVED comic books, so it was a great symbiosis.
I run into him from time to time at another store near where I work (the one from college shut down long ago, the victim of poor management from the owners and an annually-increasing lack of interest in comics from the students) and we talk about working at the shop and catching up on life. He has no regrets about never pursuing a "real" career, as it served him well for a nice while.
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Post by Icctrombone on May 12, 2019 6:50:43 GMT -5
My LCS is trying things to stay viable. They have tailgate parties for Movie releases , Pro wrestlers do signings and even have Stand up comedians every few weeks.
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