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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 20:18:47 GMT -5
What I'd like is for some never-before-seen X-Men battles that don't necessarily involve mutant opponents.
I'd pay good money to see an X-Men VS Sinister Six battle. Or X-Men VS Doctor Doom (been a while). Or a "What If?" tale where it's up to all the X-Men teams to battle Galactus.
There's still a place for the mutant stuff and battles against Magneto and Juggy. But I'd really love to see the X-Men have some fresh encounters. As a kid, I really wanted to see the original X-Men take on the Sinister Six. Professor X VS Dr. Octopus! Beast VS Kraven! Cyclops VS Sandman! Angel VS Vulture! Marvel Girl VS Mysterio! Iceman VS Electro!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 20:21:31 GMT -5
I know I could use Google or Wikipedia, but sometimes it's so much easier to just ask someone who is online. Can you please tell me what the gutting of the Defenders entailed? About a year prior to the advent of X-Factor, The Defenders had dropped its original core membership--Hulk, Dr. Strange, Sub-Mariner, Silver Surfer--and abandoned its "non-team" gimmick, morphing into what was in many ways The Champions Mark 2. It was a considerable comedown from the team's glory days under Thomas, Englehart, Wein, Gerber, and Kraft but current scripter J. M. DeMatteis was doing some interesting things with a team consisting of three former X-Men (Angel, Beast, Iceman), leftovers from the old Defenders (Valkyrie, Gargoyle), and various third-string weirdos (Cloud, Andromeda, Interloper) that kept me reading despite horrible Don Perlin art. But when editorial decided to go the X-Factor route, they pulled the plug on the New Defenders book, killing off the entire cast except for Hank, Bobby, and Warren. It was an ignominious and entirely unjustified death for one of the best Marvel titles of the '79s.
Cei-U! Still a little bitter some 35 years later!
Thanks for the explanation (my original post has disappeared, glitches/gremlins, eh?). I'm currently reading the original "The Defenders" and am enjoying it's character-driven plots and organic storytelling. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 21, 2019 20:21:47 GMT -5
I just got to that in my Defenders reviews, in the classic forum. The Defenders comic, which was hardly a sales winner, was retooled with a new cast. The original members were sent away, lest they bring about some future cataclysm, Hellcat and Son of Satan were married off and sent to California, leaving Beast to build a new team around old buddies Iceman and Angel, with Valkyrie and Gargoyle the only holdovers from the previous team, and Moondragon added to be a s@#$-stirrer (she is under Valkyrie's watch, as a favor to Odin, to punish her for trying to conquer a world in Avengers and to teach her humility). X-men was the top seller at Marvel. The mandate, across the board, became make it like X-Men (or Secret Wars). X characters were everywhere and everything was pushed to match that book, well after that series had meant anything.
Defenders was pretty much dead, and was going to be cancelled, when they decided to launch X-Factor. Didn't see much of the Defenders again, apart from the original three of Dr Strange, Namor and Hulk.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2019 11:15:25 GMT -5
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Post by hondobrode on Mar 23, 2019 13:52:04 GMT -5
What I'd like is for some never-before-seen X-Men battles that don't necessarily involve mutant opponents. I'd pay good money to see an X-Men VS Sinister Six battle. Or X-Men VS Doctor Doom (been a while). Or a "What If?" tale where it's up to all the X-Men teams to battle Galactus. There's still a place for the mutant stuff and battles against Magneto and Juggy. But I'd really love to see the X-Men have some fresh encounters. As a kid, I really wanted to see the original X-Men take on the Sinister Six. Professor X VS Dr. Octopus! Beast VS Kraven! Cyclops VS Sandman! Angel VS Vulture! Marvel Girl VS Mysterio! Iceman VS Electro!
Right ?
Isn't that what a connected universe is all about ?
Neither Marvel or DC work this enough; they just lazily re-hash whatever sold last time.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2019 14:35:47 GMT -5
I've long been an advocate of it.
Of course, it shouldn't be overdone (no idea should be). I'm not about to suggest the next 12 Superman comics feature Batman villains.
But I do like "cross-pollination". When Doctor Octopus showed up in Cap's title, or the Hulk took on the Mandarin, it was fresh and exciting. And although I don't feel Acts of Vengeance lived up to its potential, we got intriguing match-ups like Alpha Flight VS Scorpion, Dr. Strange VS Hobgoblin, and Hulk VS Gray Gargoyle.
Never-before-seen battles excite me. The prospect of them excites me. Provided they are done sparingly, I think they work.
I would rush down to place a pre-order at my LCS if they announced a Professor X and the original X-Men VS Sinister Six one-shot. Who wouldn't want to see that? Take my money, LCS! But if they announced a six-issue X-Men VS Magneto arc, I don't think I'd be as enthusiastic. When "cross-pollination" has been done, and I am not saying it always worked, it has been fun. The novelty alone gets the adrenaline going.
And you don't even need a contrived reason most of the time. The law of averages in New York dictates that Angel will come across Kraven the Hunter or Daredevil will be the only one around when Sandman attacks. Other stories might need a reason for heroes to clash, e.g. how do we convincingly get Spider-Man to end up in China against the Mandarin, or how do we get Dormammu to Asgard? However, I feel you don't need big reasons all of the time. Clark Kent could simply be on an assignment in Gotham City while Batman is away, forcing Clark to put on his "detective head", solve the Riddler's clues and get there as the Man of Steel before Riddler can set off a bomb.
On a final note, I don't know the details of every comic story ever, but I can think of scenarios that I have never seen (Google images helps, although I am not saying it is infallible). For instance, I don't recall the Fantastic Four ever taking on the Juggernaut. Seeing their individual talents attempt to stop Juggy's momentum would be fun for me.
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Post by Farrar on Mar 23, 2019 15:14:37 GMT -5
...Thanks for the explanation ( my original post has disappeared, glitches/gremlins, eh?). I just checked the log for the date/time involved and it shows that you deleted your post yourself (something every CCF poster can do for their own posts). So the good news is that no site glitch was involved  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2019 17:56:56 GMT -5
How on Earth did I do that? I'll check the drop-down menu.
I did something similar on Twitter once, meant to do something and unfollowed someone. Embarrassing. Big thumbs? Not taking notice? D'oh...
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Post by wildfire2099 on Mar 24, 2019 7:22:52 GMT -5
Any current X-Men book just doesn't have any interest for me these days. I vote for X-Men 2099 but in name only and NOT connect it to the past 2099 comics but create an all new all different future and go bat shit crazy with mutation concepts and avoid the whole Dystopian crap-fest which has been done to death. X-Men 2099 had some cool characters (Junkpile, Halloween Jack) and some clunkers (Bloodhawk screams 90s now, and most of the others were pretty generic).... sadly, Marvel didn't just end 2099, they burned it to the ground so that it would require a restart to go back there anyway. I wouldn't mind another attempt at a future MU though, I generally enjoy those. I actually really liked the concept of a mutant nation, I just wanted to see them move past 'hated and feared' to other stuff... I feel there's alot of good stories there. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2019 7:56:47 GMT -5
Update: Elsewhen has the most votes so there is clearly some enthusiasm for the project.
Nice to see Excalibur get at least one vote.
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Post by Cei-U! on Mar 24, 2019 9:16:44 GMT -5
Thinking back, I realized that, while the resurrection of Jean Grey and founding of X-Factor were what finally drove me away from Marvel, it was a much earlier storyline that took the bloom of the rose for me where the X-books were concerned. It was the introduction of the Morlocks that left me disenchanted with Claremont. We were supposed to believe that Professor X, using Cerebro, could detect Colossus in Siberia, Storm in Kenya, and Sunspot in Brazil but didn't notice an entire society of mutants living beneth the streets of Manhattan? Really??? At that point, Chris' work lost pretty much all its credibility. I might've overlooked it if any of the Morlocks had been the slightest bit interesting (though I did kinda like Caliban) but, well, they weren't. Marvel Zombie that I was at the time, I kept reading--and buying--for several more years but X-Men no longer enthralled me the way it had during the Byrne run.
Cei-U!
I summon the long-ago epiphany!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2019 10:17:16 GMT -5
I like to believe there are no bad characters and that any writer can make characters compelling.
But some just don't interest me. Hydro-Man is one. The Morlocks are another.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Mar 24, 2019 12:01:05 GMT -5
We were supposed to believe that Professor X, using Cerebro, could detect Colossus in Siberia, Storm in Kenya, and Sunspot in Brazil but didn't notice an entire society of mutants living beneth the streets of Manhattan? Really??? This was exactly the same thought I had at the time when the Morlocks were introduced. Generally I thought the idea of the Morlocks as some kind of literal underground society was pretty cool, but I think they should have ordinary (non-mutant) homeless people, with just a few mutants living among them, who use their powers to act as protectors. Then it would have possibly been easier to figure out some explanation as to why they slipped under Xavier's radar.
Yeah, that's pretty much my story, too, although I did genuinely like the brief run of issues when Paul Smith was doing the art, despite my misgivings about the Morlocks.
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Post by Cei-U! on Mar 24, 2019 12:44:13 GMT -5
We were supposed to believe that Professor X, using Cerebro, could detect Colossus in Siberia, Storm in Kenya, and Sunspot in Brazil but didn't notice an entire society of mutants living beneth the streets of Manhattan? Really??? This was exactly the same thought I had at the time when the Morlocks were introduced. Generally I thought the idea of the Morlocks as some kind of literal underground society was pretty cool, but I think they should have ordinary (non-mutant) homeless people, with just a few mutants living among them, who use their powers to act as protectors. Then it would have possibly been easier to figure out some explanation as to why they slipped under Xavier's radar.
Yeah, that's pretty much my story, too, although I did genuinely like the brief run of issues when Paul Smith was doing the art, despite my misgivings about the Morlocks.
The art was a big part of why I stayed. I love Smith's work and I like John Romita, Jr., especially his staging. I was just about to drop New Mutants when Sienkiewicz took over, so I stuck around exactly as long as he did. But I was so over Claremont (though he's a really nice guy in person).
Cei-U! Ah, the early '80s!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2019 12:44:29 GMT -5
This is why I like forums, you always learn something. It never crossed my mind to consider the Cerebro/Morlocks plot hole, but now it's been mentioned, I completely agree!
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