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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 16, 2019 13:31:34 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 13:37:27 GMT -5
Dan Didio seemingly debunked it on Facebook, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of it was true. Especially the expansion into the Walmart/Target/Gamestop markets.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 14:35:46 GMT -5
A few things-it's 22 monthly regular SUPER-HERO titles plus other imprints, mini-series, etc. So, WONDER COMICS is another imprint, it currently has 4-6 titles, Vertigo had another 8 or so titles, Young Animal is current on Hiatus, Black Label on hold, Ink and Zoom launching in the coming months, etc. but DC will still be putting out 40-50 titles on the direct market even if they made a cut like that, plus 6 (and possibly more coming) Wal Mart titles (the 2 new ones just debuted moving it form 4 to 6).
They have already trimmed some and saw sales per title increase as they trimmed poorer performing titles (even without the benefit of new #1s or multiple variant covers), so margins will increase as they trim the fat. It may be a sign that they no longer care about the dick measuring contest with Marvel for monthly market share in the direct market and are looking at overall profitability and sustainability of the line like a proper publishing business should.
The downside of course, is for creators as it means fewer job opportunities.
But frankly, there are too many titles being produced for the shelf space of their retail outlets to effectively display and have for sale (so most books never see the shelf unless they are preordered anyways), and too many for the size of their remaining customer base to effectively support.
So as an implosion, I can see Didio denying it, but as a new market strategy being brought to DC from their parent company (who looks at the bigger picture and not just the direct market) and slowly implemented, I can buy it.
-M
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 16, 2019 16:05:47 GMT -5
I refuse to think that Dc will not pull the plug on the imprint titles. It's a cold business , after all.
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Post by Batflunkie on Feb 16, 2019 19:35:02 GMT -5
I refuse to think that Dc will not pull the plug on the imprint titles. It's a cold business , after all. I'm likely to believe that the excess of imprints is what caused this in the first place. Not that I'm saying that they don't deserve to be around, but DC has too many currently for any single one of them to be viable on it's own merits I remember when New Age Of Heroes first debuted and now all of it's titles are suddenly ending most likely due to lack of sales and or interest
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 23:54:31 GMT -5
I refuse to think that Dc will not pull the plug on the imprint titles. It's a cold business , after all. I'm pretty sure all the Bendis imprints were part and parcel of the contract they signed to woo him over so they would be in breach of contract to cancel those before the terms of the contract are complete, and the deal runs for several years. They're not going to pull the Neil Gaiman imprint either, as that gives them big access to the book trade market. Ink and Zoom have had strong support from libraries and the book trade market (it looks like even Target and Wal Mart will carry these in their book sections) and they had to pay the established young adult writers a decent sum to rival what they can get from actual book publishers, so they are not going to pull the plug on those until they get some kind of return on investment. I think some of the imprints are actually positioned stronger in the broader marketplace than the traditional super-hero titles germane to the direct market are, and I'd see them pulling the plug on the direct market only books before they pull the plug on some of the imprints. I think WB is looking at what comes after the direct market, which is why you are seeing a cut back on direct market super-hero titles, I don't think the imprints are the problem, they are the next step in DC publishing's evolution that could be the very thing that helps them transition into a mass market while the direct market continues to shrink. It seems the traditional direct market comic guy cronies are no longer calling the shots at DC, but execs from the broader entertainment division, so you may see some real forward looking changes not the desperate attempts to stay relevant in the dying market of the direct market comic shops. -M
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 1:39:57 GMT -5
Rebirth currently has 26 titles ongoing so cutting to 22 won't be that difficult.
22 super-hero titles... using current/old stand byes as a guide
1. Batman 2. Detective Comics 3. Superman 4. Action Comics 5. Wonder Woman 6. Aquaman 7. Flash 8. Justice League 9. Justice League Dark 10. Suicide Squad 11. Titans 12. Shazam 13. Harley Quinn 14. Birds of Prey 15. Green Arrow 16. Gotham City Sirens 17. Green Lantern 18. Hawkman 19. Outsiders 20. JSA 21. event/mini 22. event/mini
So what's missing from the line up that has to be published?
I cut one Justice League title, Red Hood and the Outlaws and Supergirl that are currently being published that I know of, but included a few that have been recently cancelled (Arrow, Titans, Suicide Squad) that have tie ins in other media and others with forthcoming media tie in(Birds of Prey, Gotham City Sirens) or have been announced (Outsiders). Doom Patrol is another possibility but might fit better under one of the imprints (see below). Swamp Thing is a possibility too with the series upcoming on the DC streaming service and a Wal Mart title just launched. Super Sons is a possibility, but again might fit better under the Wonder Comics imprint. I left 2 slots open for minis/events what have you, but they could be taken by ongoings if such things do not count towards the alleged 22 title cap.
Action could become a Superman family type title and Detective A Batman family type. Keep the current lead stories, add a few back ups and make it a giant book like the Wal Mart titles. Some of the books will still be biweekly adding to the total units moved and revenue generated.
Imprint Wonder Comics (Bendis & friends) Young Justice Wonder Twins Naomi Dial H for Hero
these 4 are current, but Bendis showed a lot of Legion of Super-Heroes in his DC research reading, so I would speculate a Legion title to be forthcoming under the imprint, and I would think a Star Girl series to tie in to the upcoming series on the streaming service would fit here too).
Wal Mart Comics Batman Giant Superman Giant Wonder Woman Giant Flash Giant Titans Giant Swamp Thing Giant
New Age of Heroes imprint (these I could see being on the chopping block) Silencer Terrifics Curse of Brimstone
Vertigo/Sandman Universe Imprint House of Whispers The Dreaming Lucifer Books of Magic
Vertigo itself will shuffle through titles most with a preordained end point whether it be a mini, maxi or ongoing with a set ending.
So again I ask-what's missing that needs to be published that isn't covered by the 22 super-hero books and the imprints? What quintessential DC titles are missing? I am sure I am missing/overlooking something, but it looks like a pretty complete and solid DC line to me. Maybe a Constantine book, but that's all I can see as MIA with that line up.
-M
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 17, 2019 7:43:37 GMT -5
You make good points but I still don’t consider the imprints untouchable. Giaman isn’t writing any of the books IIRC, so I could see them axing that line. And just in general, these corporate types must have buyout clauses for the contracts that they sign with people like Bendis. They are hoping that those other imprints that you mentioned will transition nicely into book stores but even that’s a gamble.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 8:50:48 GMT -5
You make good points but I still don’t consider the imprints untouchable. Giaman isn’t writing any of the books IIRC, so I could see them axing that line. And just in general, these corporate types must have buyout clauses for the contracts that they sign with people like Bendis. They are hoping that those other imprints that you mentioned will transition nicely into book stores but even that’s a gamble. Vertigo has sold better in trade (and mostly in bookstores not comic shops) since its inception. Sandman has been one of their best selling lines and while Gaiman doesn't explicitly own the material (it wasn't creator-owned) there is a handshake agreement that allows them to use the elements he did create that they would jeopardize (Gaiman has a history of taking on IP issues and winning in court, just ask McFarlane), and continues to allow them to use his name to promote Sandman and other properties that make them a lot of money. They are not going to jeopardize that relationship by pulling the rug out from underneath him on the imprint he is curating, especially when he brought 3 writers who are big sellers in the book trade to write comics for the first time (one, Spurrier) was already a comic veteran and brought their fan base with them to DC products that otherwise might never have looked at them. I think you are continuing to look at this through the lens of DC and the direct market, and how they have done things. The people at WB now making decisions are not concerned with the direct market primarily now. They are looking at finding a new sustainable market model NOT doing things the way they've been done for decades resulting in the shrinking direct market customer base which is close to becoming non-viable and is no longer sustainable. We are in the midst of a major paradigm shift in the comics market and I think WB is trying to get out in front of it so they don't get steamrolled by it. Stop thinking in terms of what would DC do, and start thinking what would WB do, because the people that are now in charge and dictating policy have nothing to do with DC's past. Didio and Lee and company are not setting policy now, they are implementing policy given to them. And how do you create new value to an arm of a company-one way is to create more brands for it, and that's what the imprints are-brands. Look for more of that kind of stuff, not less. -M
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 17, 2019 8:55:08 GMT -5
Time will tell. Giaman will get paid , even if they don't publish the books. They are essentially paying him to use his name on the books. I'm thinking that WB will look at the bottom line and mercilessly cancel projects if they see the need.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 14:29:17 GMT -5
Time will tell. Giaman will get paid , even if they don't publish the books. They are essentially paying him to use his name on the books. I'm thinking that WB will look at the bottom line and mercilessly cancel projects if they see the need. I think moreso they are evaluating the format of the monthly periodical and if it remains a viable product in the marketplace. Cutting back to your core brands without diluting the brand to see how strong the market for the product actually is. If your best and brightest cannot sell enough, then the problem is the format of the product and the way it is sold. I think this is WB looking at the direct market and its typical product format and saying does the still work in the 21st century? It's not about cutting titles, it's about testing the market with the core brands in that product format. Nothing was said about cutting all output, just cutting super-hero monthly titles in the direct market. They are not looking to trim overall output but monthly super-hero titles. Period. End of story. The other imprints and such aren't covered in the alleged mandate. SO ask why the focus on super-hero titles in the direct market place and not everything else. The Vertigo books are loss leaders. Sales on the single issues cover production costs-the profit comes from the long shelf lives they have as trades. Super-hero trades form monthly titles rarely become evergreen sellers or have a long shelf life. So the super-hero titles not only have to pay their production costs but also be profitable as single issues for the most part. I think WB is looking at whether that is a viable sustainable model, and you don't do evaluations of a products place in the market with fringe products but with the top of the line brands-if they cannot make it, nothing will, so trim to your core essentials ans see how they do in the marketplace and then make your evaluation. I don't think this is a knee jerk reaction to current sluggishness in sales, I think this is a calculated move to test the marketplace and see what it will bear and what that means moving forward. Wal Mart sales of super-heroes in monthly big anthologies started strong and are expanding as they add titles. With 12 pages of original material and the rest reprints, they are high margin products because of smaller production costs. Direct market sales of super-heroes in slimmer single feature issues or all original content are sluggish and shrinking. They are low margin products because of production costs mostly in terms of paying creators for all new material. The Wal Mart books focus on core properties and are doing well. The Direct Market product is diluted and scattershot and is struggling. So they may be asking what lessons form the success of the Wal Mart model can we take away. Reprints haven't traditionally well in the direct market, so perhaps focusing on the core properties and see what they can do when they are front and center and not diluted by secondary properties and too much choice in the marketplace. Let it go for a year, evaluate how sales go and then implement changes based on the results. If they succeed, look for more of it. If they do not, start tinkering with price, format, etc. Eventually they will decide if the format and the direct market remain viable, but continuing to follow a plan that has continuously failed tells them nothing an changes nothing. Doing the same thing but simply expecting a different outcome is the height of foolishness, but has been the modus operandi of both DC and Marvel in the direct market for a few decades. I think someone at WB is finally starting to take the bull by the horns and taking a real hard look at what the direct market is and isn't, what the real viability of the super-hero monthly is, and putting in place a plan to test the market to determine their best path forward. The other imprints and such are not relevant to what they are trying to find out, hence the mandate about super-hero titles each month and not the imprints, minis, etc. They won't touch the Gaiman books right now because they are not evaluating the Gaiman books. They know what they have there already, a steady source of evergreen sellers that has provided a solid and dependable revenue since the late 80s that has remained untouched by any trends in the direct market. They don't know what they have in super-hero monthlies right now because it's a been volatile market propped up by sales gimmicks and hand waving of its problems for the past 2 decades or more, and this smacks of a move to find out what they have by isolating the focus on those super-hero titles, taking away excuses and dilutions, and letting the results speak for themselves. -M
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Post by rberman on Feb 17, 2019 19:05:18 GMT -5
Is Marvel trying anything comparable to DC's Wal-Mart 100 pagers? The two companies are usually quick to adopt each other's practices.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 19:22:29 GMT -5
Is Marvel trying anything comparable to DC's Wal-Mart 100 pagers? The two companies are usually quick to adopt each other's practices. No Marvel keeps saying they are doubling down and all in on the direct market and that's that. They are also flooding the market with titles, shooting stuff like a shotgun into the marketplace to see if anything catches and trying to monopolize shelf space of retailer sin the direct market. They are the top dog in the current status quo-so why would they want to shake up that status quo? -M
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Post by Rob Allen on Feb 18, 2019 13:05:20 GMT -5
Is Marvel trying anything comparable to DC's Wal-Mart 100 pagers? The two companies are usually quick to adopt each other's practices. Marvel partnered with Archie Comics to put Marvel digests in supermarkets & newsstands in 2017-18. The books were all reprints, and created no buzz at all among fans. DC's WalMart experiment has been much more successful.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 14:07:13 GMT -5
Is Marvel trying anything comparable to DC's Wal-Mart 100 pagers? The two companies are usually quick to adopt each other's practices. Marvel partnered with Archie Comics to put Marvel digests in supermarkets & newsstands in 2017-18. The books were all reprints, and created no buzz at all among fans. DC's WalMart experiment has been much more successful. I think the case is more Disney licensed those Marvel stories out to Archie to reprint and package (and now to IDW for Star Wars and Marvel Heroes for younger readers), not so much marvel, who is focused on creating content for the single issue direct market. DC is actually putting their A-list creators on the Wal Mart books for the original material in each title. -M
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