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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jan 1, 2019 10:36:24 GMT -5
I think that's another factor of the fact that Marvel and DC aren't really shared universes anymore... every writer essentially has their own pocket universe that only resemble each other incidently. I don't see that being more true now than it was historically. Chris Claremont, Steve Englehart, and Jim Starlin definitely had their own little universes... really all the most creative writers did. I was part of a blog crossover project on the Steve Gerber superhero universe, ferinstance. (I concede that the hackier Gerry Conway level writers mostly avoided this. In my view they often used continuity as a crutch, leaching off the concepts of the top tier writers.) I suspect the answers are (A) Cross-pollination is saved for the mega-crossovers- if you like this sort of cross-polination you have to buy SecretT UltrA CrisiS* - and (B) the stories are longer. A one off where Daredevil fights the Leader might be fun in 1976 but now that would be six months away from Daredevil's villains with a character that the writer and editor can't develop at all because he "belongs" to the Hulk offices, and that's six months away from Daredevil's main cast of villains. I definitely do miss the days where everyone fought the Hulk within their first year, though.  * Which is another reason I don't see shared universes being less important now - for 3 or 4 months of the year a substantial number of Marvel comics are telling the same story... and have the exact. same. %^$& plot. If you wanna argue that shared universes concept was implemented better 20-30-40 years ago I am 100% with you, but I don't think inter title continuity is any less prevalent or important in 2018. They just do it worse differently. |
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Post by tingramretro on Jan 4, 2019 8:53:30 GMT -5
There is continuity, you're right, but it feels like continuity for the sake of whatever the biggest event is right now. Not that that's a bad thing, but that's what it appears to be, e.g. "Let's get every title on board for Secret Empire. Whereas in the "old days", it felt more interconnected without the need for big events. Kraven could show up and hunt the Beast. Cap could cross paths with Electro. Iron Man could be the one that happens to show up to deal with Rhino. Anything could happen! Nowadays, it feels like the only time "cross-pollination" can be allowed to happen is if there's a big event on. There's a place for that, but I miss the days of randomness, where Daredevil would come across Vulture, or Joker just happened to be visiting Metropolis. It still happens. It may be less common than it used to, but it still happens. The 2017 Star Lord series, for instance, at one point saw Peter Quill team up with the Shocker to save Diamondhead, IIRC... |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 4, 2019 9:11:36 GMT -5
One reason, I believe, for the decrease in "cross-pollination" today is that you have fewer one-and-done issues. With decompressed storylines that are published with an eye for how they will fit into a TPB, there is less need to plug in a different hero's foe into another hero's book. It is a shame, eh? I'd love to see Cap battle Electro. Or have the Fantastic Four take on Abomination. There are so many encounters I am not sure have ever happened (have the Fantastic Four ever battled Juggernaut?). But I know "cross-pollination" won't be a thing in the era of decompression.  |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 4, 2019 9:59:27 GMT -5
I think that's another factor of the fact that Marvel and DC aren't really shared universes anymore... every writer essentially has their own pocket universe that only resemble each other incidently. I don't see that being more true now than it was historically. Chris Claremont, Steve Englehart, and Jim Starlin definitely had their own little universes... really all the most creative writers did. I was part of a blog crossover project on the Steve Gerber superhero universe, ferinstance. (I concede that the hackier Gerry Conway level writers mostly avoided this. In my view they often used continuity as a crutch, leaching off the concepts of the top tier writers.) I suspect the answers are (A) Cross-pollination is saved for the mega-crossovers- if you like this sort of cross-polination you have to buy SecretT UltrA CrisiS* - and (B) the stories are longer. A one off where Daredevil fights the Leader might be fun in 1976 but now that would be six months away from Daredevil's villains with a character that the writer and editor can't develop at all because he "belongs" to the Hulk offices, and that's six months away from Daredevil's main cast of villains. I definitely do miss the days where everyone fought the Hulk within their first year, though. * Which is another reason I don't see shared universes being less important now - for 3 or 4 months of the year a substantial number of Marvel comics are telling the same story... and have the exact. same. %^$& plot. If you wanna argue that shared universes concept was implemented better 20-30-40 years ago I am 100% with you, but I don't think inter title continuity is any less prevalent or important in 2018. They just do it worse differently. I agree that there are more events, for sure. I'm talking about the little things... Having the Avengers call the FF for info about something, and having Reed mention whatever is going on in their book... costumes being right.. minor characters developing correctly, that kinda thing. I HATE when there's a world shattering crisis in, say, X-Men, and they don't mention why the Avengers aren't helping, or vise versa. |
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Post by tingramretro on Jan 4, 2019 10:32:05 GMT -5
I don't see that being more true now than it was historically. Chris Claremont, Steve Englehart, and Jim Starlin definitely had their own little universes... really all the most creative writers did. I was part of a blog crossover project on the Steve Gerber superhero universe, ferinstance. (I concede that the hackier Gerry Conway level writers mostly avoided this. In my view they often used continuity as a crutch, leaching off the concepts of the top tier writers.) I suspect the answers are (A) Cross-pollination is saved for the mega-crossovers- if you like this sort of cross-polination you have to buy SecretT UltrA CrisiS* - and (B) the stories are longer. A one off where Daredevil fights the Leader might be fun in 1976 but now that would be six months away from Daredevil's villains with a character that the writer and editor can't develop at all because he "belongs" to the Hulk offices, and that's six months away from Daredevil's main cast of villains. I definitely do miss the days where everyone fought the Hulk within their first year, though. * Which is another reason I don't see shared universes being less important now - for 3 or 4 months of the year a substantial number of Marvel comics are telling the same story... and have the exact. same. %^$& plot. If you wanna argue that shared universes concept was implemented better 20-30-40 years ago I am 100% with you, but I don't think inter title continuity is any less prevalent or important in 2018. They just do it worse differently. I agree that there are more events, for sure. I'm talking about the little things... Having the Avengers call the FF for info about something, and having Reed mention whatever is going on in their book... costumes being right.. minor characters developing correctly, that kinda thing. I HATE when there's a world shattering crisis in, say, X-Men, and they don't mention why the Avengers aren't helping, or vise versa. They quite often do mention it, though. Recent issues of Uncanny X-Men featured a global crisis, and they showed various heroes around the world responding to outlying elements of it while the X-Men were working out what was going on. Likewise, the latest issue of Avengers included T'Challa calling a meeting of various international heroes to discuss how the Avengers' reorganization affected the world. And last month's FF guest starred everyone from Luke Cage to Iceman. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 4, 2019 11:01:11 GMT -5
That's good.. maybe someone at Marvel has decided to edit again  The last few time recent books have had that sort of connect that I've noticed, they've conflicted. |
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Post by tingramretro on Jan 4, 2019 11:07:46 GMT -5
That's good.. maybe someone at Marvel has decided to edit again The last few time recent books have had that sort of connect that I've noticed, they've conflicted. The only minor continuity conflict I noticed in any of those books was that Captain Britain was still sporting a beard (as he has been for a couple of years now) in Avengers but was shown as clean shaven in a cameo in Uncanny X-Men. But I guess the man is entitled to change his look occasionally... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 14:29:30 GMT -5
When I read the Knightfall saga, and Bats was struggling with all those Arkham Asylum escapees, I did wonder to myself, 'What, Superman, Flash, Green Lantern and many others couldn't have spared five minutes to assist?'
That's what reading a shared universe does.
But then I realised that a) it's a Batman arc about how Bats handles the problem, and b) where would the satisfaction be in having aliens, GL Corps members and speedsters wrapping everything up in moments?
The thought does occur to me - I mean, where were the Avengers when Galactus invaded? - but I feel it's best for me to dismiss the questions. ;-)
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 4, 2019 21:08:13 GMT -5
That's good.. maybe someone at Marvel has decided to edit again The last few time recent books have had that sort of connect that I've noticed, they've conflicted. The only minor continuity conflict I noticed in any of those books was that Captain Britain was still sporting a beard (as he has been for a couple of years now) in Avengers but was shown as clean shaven in a cameo in Uncanny X-Men. But I guess the man is entitled to change his look occasionally... Do they mention (or not) that Tony Stark and Janet Van Dyne are dating in Avengers? (That's the sort of thing that often gets missed these days).. or is Wasp not really in the book right now? I read last for No Surrender. |
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Post by tingramretro on Jan 5, 2019 6:44:27 GMT -5
The only minor continuity conflict I noticed in any of those books was that Captain Britain was still sporting a beard (as he has been for a couple of years now) in Avengers but was shown as clean shaven in a cameo in Uncanny X-Men. But I guess the man is entitled to change his look occasionally... Do they mention (or not) that Tony Stark and Janet Van Dyne are dating in Avengers? (That's the sort of thing that often gets missed these days).. or is Wasp not really in the book right now? I read last for No Surrender. Umm...I think you may have missed a few developments. Janet is not on the current team, no, not on any kind of regular basis, though she did resurface in the most recent issue on some kind of undercover mission. The current Avengers book isn't really focused on the members private lives. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 5, 2019 8:48:14 GMT -5
I agree that there are more events, for sure. I'm talking about the little things... Having the Avengers call the FF for info about something, and having Reed mention whatever is going on in their book... costumes being right.. minor characters developing correctly, that kinda thing.
I HATE when there's a world shattering crisis in, say, X-Men, and they don't mention why the Avengers aren't helping, or vise versa.
I have a theory about why they don't mention the events occurring in their own adventures. I think that everything is written to be collected and I feel that maybe the writers think those types of footnotes get in the way of the story in their own TPB. Back in the day in FF # 116 when the FF were battling the Overmind, the Avengers were in the midst of the Kree/Skrull war and the attempt to reach them failed. You could mention it in a footnote that says * See Avengers # 93, Stan* . But it's like Marvel and DC are disavowing their numbered issues in favor of collected editions. Nowadays, you might see them say * see the Kree/Skrull was HC coming out next week *. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 11:48:50 GMT -5
Also, maybe the constant renumbering doesn't help.
*See Avengers #1. No, not the one from last year, nor the year before that, but from 2016.
**See Wolverine #1. Which one? Erm, not sure.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 5, 2019 12:10:05 GMT -5
Do they mention (or not) that Tony Stark and Janet Van Dyne are dating in Avengers? (That's the sort of thing that often gets missed these days).. or is Wasp not really in the book right now? I read last for No Surrender. Umm...I think you may have missed a few developments. Janet is not on the current team, no, not on any kind of regular basis, though she did resurface in the most recent issue on some kind of undercover mission. The current Avengers book isn't really focused on the members private lives. Yeah, I got the impression it was pretty action oriented atm... Just wondering if it was mentioned. |
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Post by tingramretro on Jan 5, 2019 15:29:35 GMT -5
Also, maybe the constant renumbering doesn't help. *See Avengers #1. No, not the one from last year, nor the year before that, but from 2016. **See Wolverine #1. Which one? Erm, not sure. Which is why Marvel now have both the new numbering and the original numbering on the covers. To avoid that kind of confusion and give a sense of continuity. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 15:49:16 GMT -5
Agreed, but I think that's rather silly. Not confusing (I understand it), but silly.
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The last few time recent books have had that sort of connect that I've noticed, they've conflicted.