|
Post by rberman on Jan 7, 2018 19:42:31 GMT -5
I know there's a lot of churning but it's more prevalent now, at least to me, than ever before. As far as "too much of a good thing", that's exactly what I feel Marvel, and Disney, do. DC does it too but it mostly seems to work over there. Maybe it's just my attitude. You wouldn't know it from reading my posts here on CCF, but like all of us, I used to love Marvel. Having a couple of X-Men titles, i.e. Uncanny and New Mutants, makes sense to me. Throw in a Wolverine solo, and I can still go with that, but all the rest ? Please ! That's what Marvel has become and I hate it. Besides the freshness of the characters and creators really belting out their best, what I like about Valiant is that you can read a single title and line-wide crossovers are rare. I can read Bloodshot, or X-O Manowar or Secret Weapons and get a good solid story without all the bs the Big Two have and especially the bloating of franchises. Valiant said from the start that they'd keep their universe limited to 8 titles and that's what they've done, rotating characters and limited series here and there to maintain that. To be honest, I think both Marvel and DC would like to do this but can't because they're both in a publishing standoff where if one does that the other has more titles and smothers the other one. If they could trim their titles back, I think they'd see the return of 6 figure circulations again and simplify their universes and work load. There's not a large enough customer base buying comics in the direct market for numbers on titles to increase significantly if they trip titles. They can only capture market share and revenue by volume of titles. For years, Marvel and Dc have aimed their output at the collector's market, and that's all that's left, and it is the collector's market that drive multiple titles of their favorites by buying entire lines, it's collectors that drive events by buying them in higher numbers than other books, it's collectors that drive #1s and reboots because they buy those in higher numbers than other books. The comics we have is a direct result of the buying patterns of the customers left in the market, and Marvel and DC are only reacting to what does sell (and none of it sells well outside of the context of the direct market). The customers who have different buying patterns left the market long ago and are not coming back even if Marvel and DC change how they do things. The corral gate was already opened and the cattle have already escaped, there's no comic book cowboy that can go out there and herd them back into the market. Comic book stores need the monthly pamphlet to remain viable, the comics industry as a whole does not unless it wants to stay in a configuration that is shirking to the point of becoming obsolete. Comics can evolve and survive, I am not sure the direct market can. When Phil Seuling started the direct market it was to sell directly to customers who already knew what they wanted. It wasn't designed to gain new readers or bring in new audiences, it was meant to service existing customers. It became so successful servicing those existing customers it became more profitable than the newsstand market which was abandoned. But they never developed a mechanism to bring in new audiences and gain new readers. The direct maket is terrible at that because it was never designed to do that, and everyone was too shortsighted to build such a mechanism to replace what the newsstand did, and now they are reaping what they have sown. All that is left is existing readers with particular buying patterns (and I will say with self-destructive buying patterns), and it now needs those sprawling lines with too many titles just to survive in the market because there is not enough potential buyers left in the marketplace as it exists to sustain the industry with fewer titles. Cut titles and you cut sales. More people aren;t going to buy your flagship books if you cut the ancillary books. Most buying your ancillary books are also already buying your flagship titles. New readers aren't going to magically appear to buy your flagship books if you cut your ancillary books. More books generate more revenue in a small customer base and they need that revenue stream because it won;t be there if they cut titles (as tiny as the stream is from each title). It's a vicious circle and a downward spiral. There are ways out of it, but they don't involve monthly pamphlets int he direct market. I am not saying they should abandon that, but I am saying it should no longer be the main focus of their business model. They need to service the existing market for sure, but they need to find new markets, the new markets are not going to come to the existing market. And I highly doubt a deep complex continuity with interconnected titles are part of finding that new market. Good thoughts. I was nine years old and had just started collecting in 1980 when comics were available at convenience stores and drug stores (there were no newsstands in the South), and I got subscriptions to a few titles. There wasn't a direct sales store in Chattanooga until several years later, by which I had moved on to buying CDs as my money sinkhole. My understanding was that direct sales were necessary (1) to get a higher quality of paper for better art/coloring being demanded by adult readers, and (2) because newsstand sales were drying up due to changing social patterns (mine was the first generation to spend money on home video games for instance). Did direct sales cannibalize the newsstand market while elevating the unit price out of the 5th-9th grade consumer marketplace, further shrinking the renewability of the reader base? Probably, but it seemed like something that was going to happen anyway, and the profits, never awesome, were worse than before by the early 1980s. Star Wars had saved Marvel from bankruptcy, so they cloned it as Micronauts. X-Men were the top seller, so they proliferated into a whole X-line by the time I was out of high school (Wolverine, X-Factor, New Mutants -> X-Force, etc.) Yes, they were chasing dollars, but with a grim sense of desperation. The bottom line is that society changed, and all sorts of old media went obsolete. Pretty much all media you went to a newsstand for in 1960 is dead or dying in favor of the obvious benefits of online content. Yet creativity flourishes in other media forms.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jan 7, 2018 21:44:48 GMT -5
There's not a large enough customer base buying comics in the direct market for numbers on titles to increase significantly if they trip titles. They can only capture market share and revenue by volume of titles. For years, Marvel and Dc have aimed their output at the collector's market, and that's all that's left, and it is the collector's market that drive multiple titles of their favorites by buying entire lines, it's collectors that drive events by buying them in higher numbers than other books, it's collectors that drive #1s and reboots because they buy those in higher numbers than other books. The comics we have is a direct result of the buying patterns of the customers left in the market, and Marvel and DC are only reacting to what does sell (and none of it sells well outside of the context of the direct market). The customers who have different buying patterns left the market long ago and are not coming back even if Marvel and DC change how they do things. The corral gate was already opened and the cattle have already escaped, there's no comic book cowboy that can go out there and herd them back into the market. Comic book stores need the monthly pamphlet to remain viable, the comics industry as a whole does not unless it wants to stay in a configuration that is shirking to the point of becoming obsolete. Comics can evolve and survive, I am not sure the direct market can. When Phil Seuling started the direct market it was to sell directly to customers who already knew what they wanted. It wasn't designed to gain new readers or bring in new audiences, it was meant to service existing customers. It became so successful servicing those existing customers it became more profitable than the newsstand market which was abandoned. But they never developed a mechanism to bring in new audiences and gain new readers. The direct maket is terrible at that because it was never designed to do that, and everyone was too shortsighted to build such a mechanism to replace what the newsstand did, and now they are reaping what they have sown. All that is left is existing readers with particular buying patterns (and I will say with self-destructive buying patterns), and it now needs those sprawling lines with too many titles just to survive in the market because there is not enough potential buyers left in the marketplace as it exists to sustain the industry with fewer titles. Cut titles and you cut sales. More people aren;t going to buy your flagship books if you cut the ancillary books. Most buying your ancillary books are also already buying your flagship titles. New readers aren't going to magically appear to buy your flagship books if you cut your ancillary books. More books generate more revenue in a small customer base and they need that revenue stream because it won;t be there if they cut titles (as tiny as the stream is from each title). It's a vicious circle and a downward spiral. There are ways out of it, but they don't involve monthly pamphlets int he direct market. I am not saying they should abandon that, but I am saying it should no longer be the main focus of their business model. They need to service the existing market for sure, but they need to find new markets, the new markets are not going to come to the existing market. And I highly doubt a deep complex continuity with interconnected titles are part of finding that new market. Good thoughts. I was nine years old and had just started collecting in 1980 when comics were available at convenience stores and drug stores (there were no newsstands in the South), and I got subscriptions to a few titles. There wasn't a direct sales store in Chattanooga until several years later, by which I had moved on to buying CDs as my money sinkhole. My understanding was that direct sales were necessary (1) to get a higher quality of paper for better art/coloring being demanded by adult readers, and (2) because newsstand sales were drying up due to changing social patterns (mine was the first generation to spend money on home video games for instance). Did direct sales cannibalize the newsstand market while elevating the unit price out of the 5th-9th grade consumer marketplace, further shrinking the renewability of the reader base? Probably, but it seemed like something that was going to happen anyway, and the profits, never awesome, were worse than before by the early 1980s. Star Wars had saved Marvel from bankruptcy, so they cloned it as Micronauts. X-Men were the top seller, so they proliferated into a whole X-line by the time I was out of high school (Wolverine, X-Factor, New Mutants -> X-Force, etc.) Yes, they were chasing dollars, but with a grim sense of desperation. The bottom line is that society changed, and all sorts of old media went obsolete. Pretty much all media you went to a newsstand for in 1960 is dead or dying in favor of the obvious benefits of online content. Yet creativity flourishes in other media forms. Newsstand decline was an independent thing. Rising printing and publishing costs drove up prices on periodicals, while economic hardship drove out many small businesses that provided newsstand outlets: the mom and pop shops. The were further pushed out by large corporate chains, who looked at the bottom line. Adult magazines were more profitable for them, so they dominated their newsstand space. As more and more of the market turned to other entertainment and information platforms, print media continued to shrink at higher rates. Chains reduced the size of their newstands and replaced them with more profitable items. This combined to push children's periodicals further and further off what stands remained. It wasn't just comics; publications like Ranger Rick and Highlights also suffered. The publishing costs are supplemented with advertising; but, to try to hold back price on a single issue, you need a ton of advertising. This is why you have magazines with 20 pages of ads before you ever come to an article. Meanwhile, television further replaced newspapers as the main source of news and the birth of the internet took things further away. Adult magazines have been in steady decline since the 70s; but, they had more lucrative advertising to keep them going longer. By contrast, the bulk of comic book advertising was taken up by novelty companies, outright cons (Count Dante and the like), and classified ads for dealers. Comics drew some advertising from the candy manufacturers; but, it was never quite as effective as tv ads, so they concentrated more there. Newsstand are/were a crapshoot. You print 10,000 copies and if you sell 5,000 you have a huge hit. Retailers can return unsold copies (well, stripped covers and mastheads) for credit; so, they have no incentive to sell beyond a certain point. Some comics wouldn't even be put on display,as it ate into more profitable space. Some distributors would bundle titles to force retailers to carry lesser titles; but, that didn't mean they had to try hard to sell them. If the sell through on the popular titles were high enough, they could carry the lesser ones based on the credit they got back for the unsold and undisplayed copies. This is part of why comic book publishers were all over the genre map in the 70s. They were trying to find the next big thing, because even the popularity of superheroes was waning and the space to sell them was shrinking. Fan dealers created the direct market to get the comics they wanted directly and sell them to a known, niche audience. The publishers quickly found that they could market more effectively to this market than guess at the mass market and put more of their eggs in that basket. Over time, they had it all. The problem is, they abandoned the much larger, yet riskier mass market for the smaller sure thing. Problem is, people change as they age. The direct market is aimed at existing fans. If they leave the market, there isn't a mechanism to draw in new readers to replace them, let alone supplement them. The publishers have gnashed their teeth over that fact; but, they put all of their efforts at aiming for a younger audience in the market where they have been excluded, so it is a system with built-in failure. While all this has gone on, you have had a more and more incestuous managerial and creative pool. You went from creators with a wide range of influences working in a new medium to creators who more and more drew inspiration from the comics that came before. As long as new material was created that attracted new attention, it worked fine. Once it became recycling of the same old plots, characters and stories, you lost large segments of the audience. Without new blood to shake things up creatively and managerially, you don't get change at the publisher. Comics are about the illusion of change; but, that filtered into comic book publishing. The companies, now, are part of massive entertainment conglomerates, who do everything based on market research and perceived return on investment, in the short term. Therefore, they are risk averse. They want a good quarterly report and a certain percentage of growth, as a whole. They have no invested interest in making comics better, as it is too minor a segment. The comics themselves haven't supported their publishers since the 60s. from the 70s onward they made more money via licensing and that is why those companies were purchased by media conglomerates. they are intellectual property for exploitation in merchandising and other, mass media. Regardless of the intent of the people within the publishing division, the upper echelons of the conglomerate know they get X amount of sales and Y amount of revenue from other outlets. Y far exceeds X, so X is the minor partner in the relationship. They exist to maintain trademarks and do R&D for new properties, with minimal cash outlay. Quite frankly, the only thing that will seriously change that is if the comic divisions were spun off into independent entities, back where they started. They couldn't support themselves that way in yesterday's market and have no hope today, without hitting on a massive new audience. That won't happen because those characters that sell a few thousand copies are used in cartoons and movies that make millions, and can be slapped on t0shirts and bedsheets that sell more units in one chain of stores than the comics do in the entire industry. For comics to change within the existing system, you need people at the top who want to take risks and try new things; but, if their corporate masters won't support that, they end up as impotent. Charlton was in a position to take a huge chunk of the market because they controlled all elements of production and distribution, at much lower costs. However, the owners didn't care enough to back Dick Giordano's ideas (and George Wildman & Nick Cuti's, later); so, Giordano lost heart and left Charlton, moving to DC. By contrast, Kinney/Warner hired Jenette Kahn because she had a proven track record of attracting new child audiences to print publications and she was given the support to clean house and initiate real change. That turned DC's fortunes around and knocked a big chunk out of Marvel's market share. The problem was, when things were stable and going well, everyone started becoming risk averse and spent more time reworking the same wheel. Comics are a viable medium, but they do a heck of a lot better in more mainstream, mass markets, like the YA books of Rena Telgemeier or newspaper collections, like Calvin & Hobbes. That audience gets more bang for their buck from those books than monthly comics. They also exist in places other than insular comic shops. Digital is a major platform; but, you still have to attract that mass audience and give them something that gives them a lot of content, for minimal outlay. You've also got to give creative talent an incentive to produce, beyond mediocre page rates. The more they have a stake in the game, the more creativity they put into the product.
|
|
|
Post by Jesse on Jan 8, 2018 2:26:49 GMT -5
I'm so done with Marvel. Might actually pick up the FF when it comes back though. You might be interested in the recent Marvel Two-In-One #1 which features Ben and Johnny reuniting to search for Reed, Sue and the kids. Although I would warn it does feature the modern Bendis version of Dr. Doom. Despite that I mostly liked it.
|
|
|
Post by hondobrode on Jan 8, 2018 2:55:20 GMT -5
I appreciate that Jesse.
Yes, I'm aware and hopeful with this issue.
Going to pick it up.
Dang that Jim Cheung does some nice work
|
|