|
Post by rberman on Jun 5, 2018 7:22:43 GMT -5
If you really wanted the article to be more positive about Kirby, instead of negative about Lee, you could have made new filenames, and redirected the old links to the new ones. It seems disingenuous to say that you're going in a more positive direction, while leaving the location as "Case_Against_Stan_Lee.pdf". Also, when trying to demonstrate similarities between the Fantastic Four and the Challengers of the Unknown, why are you using F.F. pages that have been deliberately recolored to exactly match the Challengers colors? If you're trying to mislead people, that seems like the smoking gun. “...Deliberately recoloured to exactly match the Challengers” is simply wrong. The jumpsuits have been purple in every reprint I’ve seen since the early ‘70s, so you can hardly say Tolworthy is in any way responsible for that. The FF as a team do evoke the Challengers, no matter how they’re coloured. Using Marvel-sanctioned images to drive the point is fair game. What color were the FF jumpsuit in the original publication? That would have been bold of Marvel to make them the same color as the Challengers. Also, Marvel usually reserved purple for villains.
|
|
|
Post by Cei-U! on Jun 5, 2018 13:38:09 GMT -5
“...Deliberately recoloured to exactly match the Challengers” is simply wrong. The jumpsuits have been purple in every reprint I’ve seen since the early ‘70s, so you can hardly say Tolworthy is in any way responsible for that. The FF as a team do evoke the Challengers, no matter how they’re coloured. Using Marvel-sanctioned images to drive the point is fair game. What color were the FF jumpsuit in the original publication? That would have been bold of Marvel to make them the same color as the Challengers. Also, Marvel usually reserved purple for villains. The suits they wear on their spaceflight are blue with white gloves and boots. They wear civilian clothing on their expedition to Monster Isle.
Cei-U! I summon the fashion police!
|
|
|
Post by andybates on Jun 5, 2018 17:53:10 GMT -5
“...Deliberately recoloured to exactly match the Challengers” is simply wrong. The jumpsuits have been purple in every reprint I’ve seen since the early ‘70s, so you can hardly say Tolworthy is in any way responsible for that. The FF as a team do evoke the Challengers, no matter how they’re coloured. Using Marvel-sanctioned images to drive the point is fair game. Do you have a source for the recoloring in reprints? Every version I’ve seen has the original colors (including videos of the original comic on YouTube), and it seems strange that they would recolor it in such a boring way, and with the exact color of the Challengers’ jumpsuits. And the Fantastic Four and Challengers of the Unknown borrow the archetypes from Doc Savage, so it’s not surprising that they’re similar!
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 5, 2018 18:03:42 GMT -5
“...Deliberately recoloured to exactly match the Challengers” is simply wrong. The jumpsuits have been purple in every reprint I’ve seen since the early ‘70s, so you can hardly say Tolworthy is in any way responsible for that. The FF as a team do evoke the Challengers, no matter how they’re coloured. Using Marvel-sanctioned images to drive the point is fair game. Do you have a source for the recoloring in reprints? Every version I’ve seen has the original colors (including videos of the original comic on YouTube), and it seems strange that they would recolor it in such a boring way, and with the exact color of the Challengers’ jumpsuits. And the Fantastic Four and Challengers of the Unknown borrow the archetypes from Doc Savage, so it’s not surprising that they’re similar! Here you go, effendi, from the Marvel Comics Series published by Pocket book. (That was a great format... six issues per book for $1.95. It was published in 1971* ISBN 0-671-81445-1). * EdoBosnar corrected me:it’s actually 1977.
|
|
|
Post by andybates on Jun 5, 2018 18:26:27 GMT -5
Thanks! Wow, the recoloring really changes the feel of the original comic. And there are some parts (like Sue Storm turning transparent) that are ruined by the recoloring. (The original has her fading from red to clear; the reprint has her purple and not fading.)
But I still maintain that if you're going to compare the comics themselves, you should really use the original comic as published, not a recolored version.
|
|
|
Post by EdoBosnar on Jun 6, 2018 3:45:37 GMT -5
(That was a great format... six issues per book for $1.95. It was published in 1971, ISBN 0-671-81445-1). 1971, or 1977? I had that FF pocketbook, which definitely came out in the late '70s. Here's the cover: But yeah, I definitely agree: that was a great format. From 1977 to about 1980, a bunch of these were published, including Captain America, Hulk (2 vols), Dr. Strange (2 vols), Spider-man (3 vols), Spiderwoman and Conan. It's too bad that there was only one FF book, though. I've written about these elsewhere, but at the time I absolutely loved those books and read and re-read them until the pages started falling out.
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 6, 2018 5:10:37 GMT -5
You’re absolutely correct, EdoBosnar: it’s 1977. The indicia must be too small for my old eyes!
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Feb 15, 2020 23:25:55 GMT -5
Thread necromancy! This thread got me thinking about how instructive it can be to "read" Kirby/Lee works first without the words, to see what story the pictures alone tell. I just ran across a blog that does just this thing, sometimes with stats of Kirby's original comments about various panels, and it is indeed instructive. kirbywithoutwords.tumblr.com/
|
|
|
Post by berkley on Feb 16, 2020 13:52:09 GMT -5
Thread necromancy! This thread got me thinking about how instructive it can be to "read" Kirby/Lee works first without the words, to see what story the pictures alone tell. I just ran across a blog that does just this thing, sometimes with stats of Kirby's original comments about various panels, and it is indeed instructive. kirbywithoutwords.tumblr.com/This is what I would like to see in a true "artist's edition" : reproductions of those Kirby pencils, often including his comments, as you say. Always fascinating to see where they differed from Stan's dialogue - and they often did, which is another reason I think the New Gods or Eternals would have been fatally compromised if Stan or someone else had scripted it.
|
|
|
Post by beyonder1984 on Feb 25, 2021 21:21:51 GMT -5
When I was a kid FF1 seemed like the chapters were piecemealed together, especially when the FF falls into the caves underground with those purple jumpsuits. Johnny doesn't even flame on when they fall. 1982's What If the Fantastic Found Had Not Gained Their Super-Powers? is basically the extended version of that chapter.
|
|