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Post by Cei-U! on Nov 3, 2014 11:53:09 GMT -5
Which version of Alfred did the stories use? Not the fat version, if that's what you mean. Once that change was made (in Detective #83 in '44), the two Alfreds are identical except for their rarely mentioned last names (Beagle for Earth-Two, Pennyworth for Earth-One). Yup. Sometimes it's attributed to his getting older, sometimes to inherent differences between the two universes' Kryptonians. Thanks so much! Cei-U! I summon the niggling details! |
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Post by zaku on Nov 3, 2014 12:52:06 GMT -5
Which version of Alfred did the stories use? Not the fat version, if that's what you mean. Once that change was made (in Detective #83 in '44), the two Alfreds are identical except for their rarely mentioned last names (Beagle for Earth-Two, Pennyworth for Earth-One). Thanks  . I remember a story from Superman Family... (searching).... Found!  |
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Post by Cei-U! on Nov 4, 2014 8:39:07 GMT -5
The Brave & the Bold #88February-March 1970 (December 23, 1969) $.15  Cover Art: Neal Adams “Count Ten… and Die!” 24 pages Murray Boltinoff (Editor), Bob Haney (Writer), Irv Novick (Penciller), Mike Esposito (Inker), no lettering or coloring credits. FC: Batman [of Earth-One/B] and Wildcat (see first Cosmology note below) SynopsisBruce Wayne visits retired World Heavyweight Champion Ted Grant at the seedy Gotham City hotel where Grant lives under an assumed name. The philanthropist hopes to persuade the ex-champ to act as coach of the American boxing team at the upcoming World Youth Games in Vienna. Grant, who has fallen on hard times since his gym for underprivileged kids went under, isn't interested… until he saves Wayne from a couple of “muggers” (actually actors hired by Bruce) and decides maybe he isn't washed up after all. In Austria a month later, Ted is confronted by Koslov “The Hammer,” boxing coach of the Russian team, who still bears a grudge against Grant for not giving Koslov a shot at the title. When he refuses to let Koslov goad him into a fight, Ted's team begins to question his courage, as does Ted himself. Wayne, in Vienna to coach the American fencing team, meets with “Anglo-American military intelligence” as Batman. They tell the Masked Manhunter that despite their paying big bucks to free-lance spy Kurt Schimmerling for the blueprints to a proposed Communist-bloc space station, Schimmerling failed to deliver and is rumored to be selling the plans back to the Soviets for even more money. It will be Batman's task to find Schimmerling and obtain the plans before he can make contact with the other side. Tensions mount at the Games as Koslov continues to provoke and denounce Ted Grant, who refuses to consent to the exhibition match the Hammer wants. To blow off steam, Grant becomes Wildcat and rides around the city on a borrowed motorcycle. He stumbles across Batman trailing Schimmerling into the Vienna sewer system and surreptitiously follows them in. The canny spy eludes both heroes, convincing Grant that, even as Wildcat, he is over the hill. Shortly after, Batman confronts Ted and forces him into a fight. Though the Caped Crusader lets the older man win, he nonetheless receives a good beating. Grant, his confidence restored by his ‘defeat’ of Batman, accepts Koslov's challenge. Fearing that Ted may not go the distance, Batman arranges for the lights in the arena to go out at a certain time, allowing him to secretly take the old boxer's place. The plan hits a snag when Batman is caught unaware and captured by the Soviet spies. That night, Ted and Koslov batter each other mercilessly in the ring. During a clinch, the Hammer tells Grant that Batman's life is forfeit unless he takes a dive. Ted begins to comply when Batman's prearranged blackout strikes. Under the cover of darkness, Ted kayos his opponent, sneaks him out of the arena and takes him on a hair-raising motorcycle ride until the terrified Russian leads him to the river barge where the Darknight Detective is held prisoner. The two heroes defeat the spies and race back to the arena. The match resumes. Ted, tired after the fight on the barge, begins to wilt. Batman sights Schimmerling in the crowd. He follows him, but not before taunting Grant as a “has-been,” inspiring the former champ to regain his feet and defeat Koslov. Batman wraps up the loose ends by recovering the space station data from Schimmerling. Later, Ted decides that neither he nor Wildcat are through just yet. ContinuityWildcat's five appearances in The Brave and the Bold, beginning with this issue, are problematic. It is indisputably the contemporary Batman with whom he teams in these stories but no mention is made of Wildcat's Earth-Two origins or of the Justice Society. The logical assumption is that this is the Earth-One Wildcat, although the character is never referred to in those terms in the source material. Bob "DC Answer Man" Rozakis has assigned these stories to “Earth-B” (for Bob Haney and Murray Boltinoff) and are therefore not part of either the Earth-One or -Two canons. This guide makes no attempt to argue either case. The stories are presented as Earth-Two apocrypha. The mention of Ted Grant's gym for underprivileged kids is a reference to his previous appearance in The Spectre #3. In that story, however, Grant was described as “independently wealthy,” a phrase hard to reconcile with his claims of bankruptcy and poverty here. This is further evidence against this being the Earth-Two Wildcat. Fashion WatchIn all his appearances in The Brave and the Bold, Wildcat wears a version of his original costume that does not feature the cat-paw feet (though he appears in costume in only one brief scene in this story). Points to PonderBatman's behavior toward Ted Grant in this issue ― from staging the mugging that opens the book to ‘letting’ Ted win their fight to arranging to take his place during the exhibition match with Koslov ― is manipulative, condescending, and rather out of character for the Batman of the early Bronze Age.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Nov 4, 2014 9:25:06 GMT -5
OMG they raised the price of comics to 15 cents. Thats a 25% increase. Outrageous. The industry is doomed |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 4, 2014 13:03:37 GMT -5
This is a bit off topic, but I forgot to ask earlier... what's the deal with Ted Knight's home city?
The first couple solo stories he's said to be in Gotham... then later it's called Federal City.. but, of course, MUCH later that turns into Opal City. Was Federal City Earth-two, and Opal Earth-one? Is it ever acknowledged that the first couple stories were in Gotham, or was that one of those things that just changed with no explanation?
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Post by Cei-U! on Nov 4, 2014 19:10:55 GMT -5
As far as I know, Federal City has only been mentioned once, in Brave & Bold #61. The Golden Age series was always set in Gotham, which is where Roy Thomas has Starman living in the All-Star Squadron series. Not that characters jumping from city to city was uncommon. In researching my Alter Ego article, I discovered that the settings for the Flash, Hawkman and Green Lantern all changed in the course of their solo runs: Flash started in New York, switched to Gotham, and wound up in Keystone; Hawkman went from NYC to Gotham to Keystone and back to Gotham; GL from Metropolis to Capital City to Gotham. None of these relocations are explained in the stories proper, and the characters act as though they're in the same city all along.
Cei-U!
I summon the atlas!
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 4, 2014 19:29:15 GMT -5
As far as I know, Federal City has only been mentioned once, in Brave & Bold #61. The Golden Age series was always set in Gotham, which is where Roy Thomas has Starman living in the All-Star Squadron series. Not that characters jumping from city to city was uncommon. In researching my Alter Ego article, I discovered that the settings for the Flash, Hawkman and Green Lantern all changed in the course of their solo runs: Flash started in New York, switched to Gotham, and wound up in Keystone; Hawkman went from NYC to Gotham to Keystone and back to Gotham; GL from Metropolis to Capital City to Gotham. None of these relocations are explained in the stories proper, and the characters act as though they're in the same city all along. Cei-U! I summon the atlas! In the first Flash story, Jay is a student at Midwestern University. Didn't realize any of the JSA heroes ever operated out of NYC. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Nov 4, 2014 19:58:24 GMT -5
Jay moves to New York in that first story to teach at Coleman University. As for other JSAers, the Sandman, Dr. Mid-Nite and Johnny Thunder were all based in New York (though Simon & Kirby relocated Sandman to "York City"), as was Red Tornado. The original JSA meeting room was also in a Manhattan hotel.
Cei-U!
I summon the prime real estate!
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 4, 2014 20:38:04 GMT -5
Jay moves to New York in that first story to teach at Coleman University. As for other JSAers, the Sandman, Dr. Mid-Nite and Johnny Thunder were all based in New York (though Simon & Kirby relocated Sandman to "York City"), as was Red Tornado. The original JSA meeting room was also in a Manhattan hotel. Cei-U! I summon the prime real estate! As impressive as your knowledge of all this is, Kurt, what really awes me is that you probably knew all that without looking it up! Loving this thread, especially your eye for detail. Long may you wave! I summon the gratitude. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Nov 5, 2014 8:20:53 GMT -5
Justice League of America #82
August 1970 (June 11, 1970) $.15
Cover Art: Neal Adams, main image; Murphy Anderson, head shots only
“Peril of the Paired Planets” 24 pages
Julius Schwartz (Editor), Denny O'Neil (Writer), Dick Dillin (Penciller), Joe Giella (Inker), no lettering or coloring credits
FC: The Atom, Batman, Black Canary, The Flash, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Hawkman, Superman, teamed as the Justice League of America
GS: The Atom, Batman, Doctor Fate, Dr. Mid-Nite, The Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkman, Hourman, Mr. Terrific, The Red Tornado, The Sandman, The Spectre, Starman, Superman, Johnny Thunder, Wildcat, Wonder Woman, teamed as the Justice Society of America
SC: Jimmy Olsen [of Earth-One]
Intro: Creator2 and his servants
Synopsis
On a sunny Saturday afternoon in Metropolis, the peace is shattered when Superman abruptly falls out of the sky. An emergency call goes out to the Justice League of America. Batman and Hawkman bring their comatose teammate to the JLA satellite. Scans reveal no trace of kryptonite or red solar radiation in Superman's system. A moment after Batman deduces that the Action Ace must have been struck down by magic, the Masked Manhunter pales, chokes and collapses. Faced with this inexplicable circumstance, Hawkman issues a call to the rest of the League.
A few hours previously in the Earth-Two dimension, The Red Tornado encounters an interdimensional spacecraft. The android is disabled and brought aboard. The ship belongs to Creator2 and his crew, alien contractors commissioned to build a new planet. To obtain the necessary energy for their task, the builders plan to merge the twin earths, destroying them both. This can be accomplished by attuning a being to both sets of dimensional vibrations. The Tornado, however, is already so attuned. After implanting a “harmonizer plate” in the Tornado's skull, Creator2 places the android in the void between the dimensions, where he floats unconscious, slowly and inexorably bringing the Earths together.
Creator2 dispatches five of his men planetside to plant the “matrix correctors” that will ensure the proper kind of explosions occur when the dimensional barrier is breached. Each is armed with “snare-webs,” animate nets programmed to counter the powers of the Justice Society, who the alien contractor fears will interfere with his plans.
The first JSAers to confront the aliens are Superman and Dr. Mid-Nite. While Mid-Nite alerts the rest of the team, Superman moves to intercept the alien, only to find himself rendered powerless and comatose by the snare-web. With the barriers between the Earths weakening, the Superman of Earth-One falls too. A moment later, Dr. Mid-Nite is also immobilized ― as is the Earth-One Batman. Answering Mid-Nite's alert, The Flash arrives and dispatches his foe before the alien can react. Two more aliens arrive. Despite his best efforts, Flash too is defeated. Aboard the JLA satellite, Barry Allen collapses.
All across the two Earths, people are faced with ghostlike images of their otherdimensional counterparts as the vibrational barriers crumble. To answer this challenge and to determine the cause of their fallen teammates' condition, the entire JSA meets in emergency session.
Meanwhile on Earth-One, the remaining Justice Leaguers debate their course of action. When instruments aboard the satellite indicate the weakening of the barriers between their Earth and the JSA's, Green Lantern streaks off to investigate. The Atom deduces that the Earths are being drawn together by something ― or someone ― attuned to both dimensions. Black Canary, realizing that she fits the description, concludes that to save two worlds, she must die.
Cosmology
According to this story, time passes slower in the Earth-Two dimension than in the Earth-One dimension (or in our own) and thus “its inhabitants will reach mankind's ultimate destiny ― or ultimate doom ― twenty years later than the creatures of Earth-One.”
According to this story, the “temporal matrices” of the Earths align for twenty-one days each year, allowing superhumans to cross over from one world to the other. Though this becomes the standard justification for JLA/JSA team-ups until the invention of “transmatter” technology in Justice League of America #107, it contradicts nearly all prior Earth-Two stories in which we have seen the barriers breached by the speed of the two Flashes, the power rings of the Green Lanterns, Dr. Fate's magic, the Earth-Two Atom's dimensional vibrator, the music of The Fiddler's special violin, and several other methods regardless of time of year.
It is implied in this story (largely through the artwork) that everyone on Earth-One has an identical Earth-Two counterpart. If the statement regarding the twenty year difference between the two Earths is correct, however, we would expect at least some of the counterparts to be different ages, as are the Supermen, Batmen, Robins, and Wonder Women.
No explanation is given for how or why The Red Tornado is “already attuned” to the vibrations of both the Earth-One and Earth-Two dimensions.
It is not clear if Creator2 and his men are natives of the Earth-One dimension, the Earth-Two dimension, a third unidentified universe, or the interdimensional void itself.
Meeting Minutes
No explanation is offered as to why Robin is not present at the emergency meeting.
The flashback to Justice League of America #29-30 incorrectly shows Hourman and the Earth-One Hawkman (not yet a Leaguer at that time) as participants in those events.
According to this story, the JSA uses an answering service to communicate among themselves, a considerably low-tech alternative to the Justice League's emergency signaling devices.
The Bad Guys
Nothing in the story indicates the proper pronunciation of “Creator2.” It may be “Creator Two,” “Creator Squared” or even “Creator to the Second Power.”
Fashion Watch
The Atom of Earth-Two is depicted with the coloring scheme of Starman's costume in a panel of this issue.
The Earth-Two Green Lantern wears a bright blue version of his cape throughout this issue and the next.
Wildcat reverts to his later, simpler costume, last seen in Justice League of America #56, in this story. He will not return to the original costume until All-Star Comics #58, though his Earth-One/Earth-B counterpart will be so depicted in his appearances in The Brave and the Bold and Super-Team Family.
Wonder Woman resumes wearing her red-and-white boots in this issue (although the white trim is colored red in the only panel in which they can be clearly seen).
Points to Ponder
It is curious that time is said to pass slower on Earth-Two than on Earth-One when the evidence seems to suggest that the opposite is true: the inhabitants of Earth-Two age more or less in real time while the Earth-One characters do not. Kid Flash, for example, must by definition be at least 13 at the time the original Teen Titans are formed in The Brave and the Bold #54 (June-July 1964) yet he does not graduate from high school until June of 1978 (as seen in The Flash Spectacular 1978), aging no more than five years in fourteen.
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Post by JKCarrier on Nov 6, 2014 1:58:59 GMT -5
Wildcat's five appearances in The Brave and the Bold, beginning with this issue, are problematic. It is indisputably the contemporary Batman with whom he teams in these stories but no mention is made of Wildcat's Earth-Two origins or of the Justice Society. The logical assumption is that this is the Earth-One Wildcat, although the character is never referred to in those terms in the source material. Bob "DC Answer Man" Rozakis has assigned these stories to “Earth-B” (for Bob Haney and Murray Boltinoff) and are therefore not part of either the Earth-One or -Two canons. This guide makes no attempt to argue either case. The stories are presented as Earth-Two apocrypha. Leaving aside Wildcat, how many WWII characters were definitively tied to Earth-1? Zatara (father to Zatanna) Air Wave (related to GL Hal Jordan) Plastic Man, Robotman, and the Blackhawks (Englehart's JLA origin story) Manhunter (Paul Kirk version, teamed up with Batman) TNT and Dan the Dyna-Mite (if you accept Super Friends as Earth-1 canon) The Guardian and the Newsboy Legion (Kirby's Jimmy Olsen stories) Vigilante (team-ups with Superman and the JLA) Any others? |
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Post by Cei-U! on Nov 6, 2014 8:45:04 GMT -5
That's it, plus the already accounted for Sargon. And yes, I do accept Super Friends as Earth-One canon. That's certainly how writer E. Nelson Bridwell intended it, and there's a good dozen characters introduced there who show up in other E1 titles pre-Crisis (notably the Global Guardians).
Cei-U!
I summon the big corral!
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Post by Cei-U! on Nov 6, 2014 8:46:24 GMT -5
Justice League of America #83September 1970 (July 23, 1970) $.15  Cover Art: Murphy Anderson “Where Valor Fails... Will Magic Triumph?” 23 pages Julius Schwartz (Editor), Denny O'Neil (Writer), Dick Dillin (Penciller), Joe Giella (Inker), no lettering or coloring credits FC: The Atom, Batman, Black Canary, The Flash, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Hawkman, Superman, teamed as the Justice League of America GS: Doctor Fate, Dr. Mid-Nite, The Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkman, Hourman, The Red Tornado, The Spectre, Starman, Superman, Johnny Thunder [and The Thunderbolt], Wonder Woman, teamed as the Justice Society of America Villains: Creator 2 and his servants (all die in this story) SynopsisConcerned that the Justice Society may yet succeed in disrupting his construction plans, Creator 2 dispatches a fleet of snare-webs to eliminate the heroes. The weapons burst into JSA headquarters, where the active duty members are examining the fallen Superman, Flash, and Dr. Mid-Nite. In a matter of seconds Starman, Wonder Woman, and Hourman are defeated. On the Justice League satellite, an impassioned debate is in progress regarding Black Canary's assertion that she is the cause of the earths merging. Green Lantern, who found his passage to Earth-Two blocked in the previous issue, suggests that he try to locate a dimension where the Canary's dual vibrations will be neutralized. On his quest, he finds The Red Tornado floating in the interdimensional void. Realizing it is the Tornado and not Black Canary who is the link between the earths, the Lantern attempts to free the Tornado but finds himself cut off by a shift in “the patterns of the cosmos.” The Hawkman of Earth-One tries to assuage peoples' panic when the dimensions momentarily merge. Suddenly he is struck down, due to his Earth-Two counterpart's defeat by Creator 2's snare-webs. Only Doctor Fate, Johnny Thunder, and Green Lantern remain free. When GL falls, the JLA's Lantern is also immobilized, unable to return to the satellite and tell his teammates that the Canary is not responsible for the impending disaster. With only twenty minutes remaining before the point of no return, Black Canary decides to set the League's transporter unit to “nowhere,” dissipating her atoms across the cosmos. Green Arrow and The Atom persuade her to wait. Back on Earth-Two, the surviving JSAers escape the snare-webs when Fate magically teleports them to the crypt outside Gateway City where The Spectre is imprisoned. Summoning the Spirit Sleuth, they learn that only magic may hope to overcome Creator 2's defenses. Leaving Johnny behind, Doctor Fate and The Thunderbolt attack the alien contractor's spaceship, while Spectre uses his own body to hold the earths apart. After a brief but fierce skirmish, Fate is forced to unleash a powerful spell which destroys the starcraft. The matrix correctors planted on Earth-Two, the snare-webs, and the harmonizer plate in The Red Tornado's skull are also destroyed, and the comatose heroes of both earths revive. As the twin planets return to their proper planes, The Spectre's ectoplasmic form is torn asunder, his soul released to go to its final reward. Later, after Green Lantern has learned the cause of these events from the revived Justice Society, the JLA (including a greatly relieved Black Canary) speculate that they may not have seen the last of The Spectre. Meeting MinutesThe Atom, Batman, Mr. Terrific, The Sandman and Wildcat ― all in attendance at the JSA emergency meeting last issue ― disappear between that issue and this. Although The Spectre spoke at the meeting, he is not present at the beginning of this issue and must be deliberately summoned by Doctor Fate later in the story. The Good GuysWhen last seen in The Spectre #10, Spectre was chained to the Journal of Judgment and given random temporary weaknesses in penance for the careless use of his powers. In this issue, the Ghostly Guardian is imprisoned in a tomb and no mention is made of the Journal or the weaknesses. Despite editorial comments that the reasons for this discrepancy would be related another time and are “fearsome indeed,” no explanation was ever given. No mention is made of the fate of Jim Corrigan, comatose when last seen in The Spectre #9, in this story. The Thunderbolt fights alongside Doctor Fate and The Spectre in interdimensional space after leaving Johnny Thunder behind on Earth-Two in this story. This should be impossible, as T-bolt has been previously depicted as incapable of independent action. Though it is not shown, perhaps Johnny gave his servant a command to obey Fate’s orders. Doctor Fate refers to The Thunderbolt as a “grade three sorcerer” in this issue. Fate must be really hard to impress considering that T-bolt’s magic was powerful enough to create a divergent reality in Justice League of America #37! Fashion WatchGreen Lantern of Earth-Two wears the GLC-style mask last seen in Justice League of America #38. The Earth-Two Green Lantern is depicted wearing three different styles of boots in this issue: the chevron-patterned yellow striped boots that come to a point below the knee, the horizontally-striped boots with no point, and a variation of the latter with yellow, black, and red stripes. The number of stripes varies from panel to panel, from as few as one to as many as five. Hourman's boots are redesigned yet again. Instead of black with red stripes, they are now red with three black stripes. There is also no trim on his cape. Points to PonderThough no name is visible on the crypt to which The Spectre is bound, the implication is that it is Jim Corrigan's. It is possible, then, that the Disembodied Detective is being punished for causing his mortal host's death, as “fearsome” a reason as any for the discrepancies pointed out in the first Good Guys note above. However, no corroborating evidence exists to support this theory.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,866
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Post by shaxper on Nov 6, 2014 9:01:40 GMT -5
Always loved that cover.
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Post by Cei-U! on Nov 7, 2014 8:16:17 GMT -5
The Flash #201November 1970 (September 3, 1970) $.15  Cover Art: Carmine Infantino (Penciller), Murphy Anderson (Inker), signed “Finale for a Fiddler!” 7 pages Julius Schwartz (Editor), Robert Kanigher (Writer), Murphy Anderson (Art), no lettering or coloring credits. FC: The Flash SC: Joan Garrick Villain: The Fiddler Reintro: The Turtle Man (true name unknown) SynopsisThe Flash begins to worry about slowing down with age after becoming winded while rounding up The Turtle Man and his gang. His wife Joan assures him that he's still “groovy” and reminds him that they are attending the massive “Stockwood” Rock Festival the next day. So is The Fiddler, intent on stealing the festival's $1,000,000 box office receipts. No sooner have the Garricks made their way to the stage than the sinister violinist makes his move. Age or no age, Flash makes short work of his foe, earning the applause of the festival's young audience. ContinuityAlthough no date is given for this story, it is reasonable to assume that Earth-Two's “Stockwood” Festival takes place at the same time as our own Woodstock (August 15-17, 1969). Apparently the promoters of Stockwood found a way around the problems that forced their real world counterparts to declare Woodstock a free concert. The Bad GuysThe Turtle (called the Turtle Man in this issue) was last seen in the “Flash” story in Flash Comics #102 (December 1948). He should not be confused with the Earth-One villain of the same name introduced in the “Flash” story in Showcase #4 (September-October 1956) or the monstrous Turtle-Man into which the Earth-One Jimmy Olsen transforms in Superman’s Pal, Jimmy Olsen #53 (June 1961). Points to PonderThe Flash has developed a rather cavalier attitude toward maintaining his secret identity, as he seems perfectly willing to be seen publicly escorting his wife while in full costume in this story.
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