Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,049
|
Post by Confessor on Jul 18, 2017 17:35:09 GMT -5
I've been reading Marvel Comics since before I could actually read and I love the MCU films, just like I can enjoy both the Burroughs Tarzan novels and the Johnny Weismuller movies. I don't why everything HAS to be a dichotomy: comics vs. movies, DC vs. Marvel, Star Trek vs. Star Wars. Can't we just enjoy what we enjoy, grant the same freedom to others, exchange our views with respect and an open mind, and refuse to play the childish game of taking sides? Cei-U! I summon the broader view! I don't think that expressing a preference for one medium over another is necessarily "taking sides". That term suggests a much more aggressive or violent stance than I've seen in this thread. We're just respectfully expressing our own opinions is all. I mean, saying that I prefer the Beatles' Sgt. Pepper to the Bee Gees mid-70s recordings of Sgt Pepper songs isn't taking sides, it's just expressing a preference for the material in its original form. If we're not gonna compare and contrast comic-related media in this forum then I would think that an awful lot of the discussion here is dead.
|
|
|
Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 18, 2017 17:40:37 GMT -5
Yeah "pride" doesn't come into it and is an odd choice of word. Not sure how it could apply for anyone to a thing like this. I'm perplexed by the use of "pride" as well. I'm not sure how you can feel pride in something you essentially had no hand in and that came about by happenstance. Person X just happened to come across Marvel comics first. Person Y, at around the same time, became aware of the Spider-Man cartoon and then moved on to comics. I don't see where Person X has anything to be proud about. He/she just happened to start with funnybooks. There's nothing intrinsically better about it nor any reason to be proud.
|
|
|
Post by Cei-U! on Jul 18, 2017 18:42:47 GMT -5
I've been reading Marvel Comics since before I could actually read and I love the MCU films, just like I can enjoy both the Burroughs Tarzan novels and the Johnny Weismuller movies. I don't why everything HAS to be a dichotomy: comics vs. movies, DC vs. Marvel, Star Trek vs. Star Wars. Can't we just enjoy what we enjoy, grant the same freedom to others, exchange our views with respect and an open mind, and refuse to play the childish game of taking sides? Cei-U! I summon the broader view! I don't think that expressing a preference for one medium over another is necessarily "taking sides". That term suggests a much more aggressive or violent stance than I've seen in this thread. We're just respectfully expressing our own opinions is all. I mean, saying that I prefer the Beatles' Sgt. Pepper to the Bee Gees mid-70s recordings of Sgt Pepper songs isn't taking sides, it's just expressing a preference for the material in its original form. If we're not gonna compare and contrast comic-related media in this forum then I would think that an awful lot of the discussion here is dead. I wasn't referring to this specific thread, truthfully, though I can see how my phrasing made it look that way. I was referring to a general trend among pop culture fans of reducing opinions to an "us vs. them" mentality, especially the absurd "fan vs. non-fan" arguments (which the OP swerves perilously close to IMHO). CCF and its citizens are the happy exception to that generalization. Cei-U! I summon the clarification!
|
|
|
Post by berkley on Jul 18, 2017 20:10:39 GMT -5
Yeah "pride" doesn't come into it and is an odd choice of word. Not sure how it could apply for anyone to a thing like this. I'm perplexed by the use of "pride" as well. I'm not sure how you can feel pride in something you essentially had no hand in and that came about by happenstance. Person X just happened to come across Marvel comics first. Person Y, at around the same time, became aware of the Spider-Man cartoon and then moved on to comics. I don't see where Person X has anything to be proud about. He/she just happened to start with funnybooks. There's nothing intrinsically better about it nor any reason to be proud. I'm so proud of having been born on my birthday. Seems to me there's something special about that day that makes it different from any other. And I was born on it - that must make me special too!
|
|
|
Post by Nowhere Man on Jul 19, 2017 0:28:59 GMT -5
I think the gist is that some people feel like they are the "true fans" when they come to an entertainment property in its original, purest form, as opposed to an adaptation. Ultimately I think as long as the characters and concepts still resonate with an audience it doesn't really matter, but in most cases I think we can all agree that "the book was better" holds true.
I will say that one of the few instances I can think of where I'd rather introduce a character to a potential new fan in its adapted form, is in the case of Batman and BTAS. I love Batman comics (particularly 1977-1990 or so) but BTAS, for me, is the best version of the character mainly because the creators wisely took all the best stuff pre and post Crisis, ignored modernity so it will never be dated, and had the advantage of being able to avoid all the mistakes that crept into the published version over the many years.
|
|
|
Post by LovesGilKane on Jul 19, 2017 0:36:07 GMT -5
Anyone else on this forum get a real sense of joy, pride, whatever you want to call it,that they were introduced to the Marvel heroes in their truest form? In the comics? I dont mean to sound like the cranky old man. But i see all the hoopla etc. surrounding the MCU AND DCCU and just feel good that i didnt need CGI etc to love these characters. one of the problems is that in the early 60's, a time in which a genre film would need less than 6 months (or ala Corman, less than 6 WEEKS) to complete, modern films for Marvel take over 2 years, often more when pre-production is taken into account, and this affects how modern comics (the streetwalkers obliged to make money for the superhero pimp-films) factors-out.
|
|
|
Post by Reptisaurus! on Jul 19, 2017 9:40:45 GMT -5
I'm not ashamed of being a comic nerd, but "pride" is pushing it.
|
|
|
Post by String on Jul 19, 2017 9:55:39 GMT -5
You all's experiences may vary but I haven't seen any signs that the hugely successful films have created any new comic fans/readers. Attendance at the conventions I've been going to has absolutely skyrocketed over the past 5-7 years. Not only are there five to ten times as many people coming to the shows I've been attending, the new people are younger, with a lot more girls and women than ever before. Do all of them read the comics? Certainly not. But do some of them read the comics? Yeah. Plus, at this point, the movies and merchandising are subsidizing the mainstream comic book industry. If not for those fans going to the movies and buying the t-shirts at Wal-Mart, our superhero books probably wouldn't be profitable enough to keep being published. So the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned! Today's conventions are a blurry barometer to gauge this effect. They have morphed into overall pop culture celebrations with comics having a minor representation at best. For example, are those fans who may come to see Jeremy Renner because they like his Hawkeye also going to want to see Neal Adams whose sitting three or more rows away from Renner? A better gauge to me would be those conventions whose focus remains mostly on comics with a larger attendance of both classic and current creators as well as more comic vendors. The brick-and-mortar stores would offer a better snapshot as well. I will say this, judging by the current crop of letter pages in Marvel's books, new younger kids seem to be enjoying the diversity of characters being offered which is very encouraging to see.
|
|
|
Post by LovesGilKane on Jul 20, 2017 4:22:18 GMT -5
Yeah "pride" doesn't come into it and is an odd choice of word. Not sure how it could apply for anyone to a thing like this. I'm perplexed by the use of "pride" as well. I'm not sure how you can feel pride in something you essentially had no hand in and that came about by happenstance. Person X just happened to come across Marvel comics first. Person Y, at around the same time, became aware of the Spider-Man cartoon and then moved on to comics. I don't see where Person X has anything to be proud about. He/she just happened to start with funnybooks. There's nothing intrinsically better about it nor any reason to be proud. exactly. which is why hipsters should never enjoy pride.
|
|
bran
Full Member
Posts: 223
|
Post by bran on Jul 20, 2017 23:24:55 GMT -5
perhaps "pride" not the best term - indicates comics are inferior form (so those that read comics are reading the same stories in inferior medium anyway "with pride"). if that's the context, I beg to disagree, comics vs movies neither one is superior medium - it's how it is used/utilized.
special effects were always the attraction in s-h comics, only they were created by pencils/brushes/painting. brush and paper like FX/CGI is just the technology. do movies often lack character development - yes they do, but so do comics. it's very common in comics (not just super-hero comics) that lack of real characters is overcompensated (in attempt) with insane/gorgeous overused graphics.
|
|
|
Post by Outrajs on Jul 24, 2017 7:15:59 GMT -5
Anyone else on this forum get a real sense of joy, pride, whatever you want to call it,that they were introduced to the Marvel heroes in their truest form? In the comics? I dont mean to sound like the cranky old man. But i see all the hoopla etc. surrounding the MCU AND DCCU and just feel good that i didnt need CGI etc to love these characters. Admittedly, when I was younger Marvel was the enemy, but I completely agree with the point. Our characters were alive because our imaginations made them so. They sounded like we wanted them to. CGI is great and all. It may help spark a revival. But they will never replace OUR heroes.
|
|
|
Post by dbutler69 on Jul 25, 2017 9:13:36 GMT -5
I'm just glad I grew up when I did, and "my" Marvel Universe was/is the Bronze Age (and Silver Age) world. I'm so glad I'm not growing up, trying to collect comics now. No pride or anything like that on my part, though.
|
|
|
Post by MDG on Jul 25, 2017 9:30:57 GMT -5
I really like the "home made" quality of the early era, when you can really see the seams and it feels like the main creators are feeling their way. Then it shifts toward where--with the Kirby and Ditko books, anyway--where they start to recognize they they're doing something different and pushing themselves.
In the 70s, the creativity of the silver age (Marvel and DC) starts to ossify, even as new creators try new things.
|
|
|
Post by Outrajs on Jul 26, 2017 8:00:19 GMT -5
I have to come at this from the perspective of someone who used the MCU to get back into comics in general and Marvel specifically. I love research. I fell in love with the characters in the movies so I started going back and looking at the comic books. A comic book can go on and on with any given topic. A movie can't. A comic engages your imagination. A movie can't. A comic expands. A movie condenses. A movie will never live up to a book in any form (comic or otherwise). However, a movie can capture attention and break down points for new fans easier and more accessibly.
The books are a pure form and should always have their place. But the movies (idiot cousins of books as they are) have their own place as well.
|
|
|
Post by Phil Maurice on Jul 29, 2017 17:30:59 GMT -5
So we've talked about "pride" being a less-than-appropriate term for us to use as fans regarding our involvement with characters and stories as consumers, but what about when you give your sweat and blood as a writer, director, or actor to bring these properties to life on the big screen? I just watched DOOMED: The Story of Roger Corman's Fantastic Four, the documentary about the 90s FF film that was negative-zoned by a litany of issues regarding rights, money, and clandestine dealings. I came away with the feeling that the cast and crew rightly felt pride in what they were able to accomplish with a very limited budget, in addition to the realization that they were little more than pawns in a grand scheme that considered them utterly dispensable. It's a tight little documentary that recalls how insulated and outré comics fandom was even at that late date. Though I have some familiarity with Corman's FF movie, I did NOT know that the actor who played Doctor Doom is the son of Robert Culp, my favorite recurring Columbo villain. It's uncanny how much Joseph Culp today resembles some of the sketches that Jack Kirby did of Doom without his face-plate.
|
|