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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2017 19:34:44 GMT -5
Is the director's cut of Alien worth checking out? I have seen the 1979 theatrical cut several times, but we have free HBO/Cienamx this weekend and the Director's cut is on Max tomorrow, and I wonder how it differs from the theatrical cut. Better? Worse? Different enough to check out or not worth the time? Has anyone here seen both and have opinions?
-M
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Post by berkley on Jul 22, 2017 20:43:07 GMT -5
For a very interesting take on humanity's distant future and our relationship with AIs, I highly recommend John C. Wright's The Golden Oecumene trilogy, which includes: -The Golden Age -The Phoenix Exultant -The Golden Transcendence Very original ideas, an engaging plot and well developed characters. He keeps away from most stereotypes and delivers a truly enjoyable read. Sounds interesting but when I looked up the author on wiki it said he was connected with that Sad/Rabid Puppies thing a few years ago. I don't claim to know much about that whole controversy, and I am aware that some of the writers they nominated weren't actually affiliated with the group, but it still sets off a few alarm bells, unfair though it may be.
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Post by berkley on Jul 22, 2017 20:44:23 GMT -5
Yes, when I see the English books at a second-hand bookstore they are cheap but I don't see them very often. Haven't tried looking online yet. And I think you recommended reading them in order, did you not? Or is it OK to jump around? The series is divided in arcs, and although one can start with any of these arcs, I'd really read each of them in order... at "jumping on points", as they say for comic-books. The very first arc remains my favourite. It's unapologetically all over the place, but with a wonderful enthusiasm for the classic tropes of space opera. In just the first eight books, we have the first moon landing, the encounter on our satellite of a marooned alien ship, the use of alien technology to create on Earth a new, non-aligned nation meant to unite the hostile factions(the US, China and Russia) against a "common enemy", the first aborted nuclear war, the creation of a mutant militia meant to protect the world, an attempted invasion by mind-controling space insects, the first interstellar voyage by humans (on an alien scout ship, but still), a first conflict with a lizard-like species in the Vega system, the capture of an alien space cruiser, the quest for an alien being supposedly able to grant immortality, and the development of Earth as a fledgling space nation. Whew! There's a tremendous sense of fun about these books, even if they're clearly not by Heinlein, Clark, Asimov or Herbert. They're all about pulpy adventure. Thanks, I might give them a try one of these days, if I come across the paperbacks somewhere.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 23, 2017 22:54:46 GMT -5
Is the director's cut of Alien worth checking out? I have seen the 1979 theatrical cut several times, but we have free HBO/Cienamx this weekend and the Director's cut is on Max tomorrow, and I wonder how it differs from the theatrical cut. Better? Worse? Different enough to check out or not worth the time? Has anyone here seen both and have opinions? -M It's worth watching, but isn't that remarkably different. There are a few deleted scenes put back, though they don't alter the story much. The expanded cut of Aliens, where you see Newt's family, before Newt meets Ripley, as probably a bigger change, compared to the original cut of it. It helps add a context for what Newt has lost, even though her scenes with Ripley give you that sense of losing everything she had.
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Post by Dizzy D on Jul 24, 2017 9:22:34 GMT -5
Books (from my old booklist I took to every book market I went to to cross things off, these were recommendations by friends and family) Asimov, Isaac - The God Themselves Bear, Greg - The Forge of the Gods Bester, Alfred - The Stars My Destination Blish, James - Cities in Flight Brunner, John - Stand on Zanzibar Effingerm, George Alec - When Gravity Fails Farmer, Philip Jose - To Your Scattered Bodies Go Gibson, William - Neuromancer Haldeman, Joe - The Forever War Harrison, Harry - The Stainless Steel Rat Heinlein, Robert - Starship Troopers Keyes, Daniel - Flowers for Algernon LeGuin, Ursula - The Left Hand of Darkness Lem, Stanislaw - Solaris Lewis, C.S. - Out of the Silent Planet McMaster Bujold, Lois - The Vorkosian Saga Miller, Walter - A Canticle for Leibowitz Morgan, Richard - Altered Carbon Niven, Larry - Ringworld Niven, Larry - Lucifer’s Hammer Pohl, Frederik - Gateway Reynolds, Alistaire - Revelation Space Scalzi, John - Old Man’s War Smit, E.E. “Doc” - Grey Lensman Stephenson, Neal - Snow Crash Strugatsky, Arkady & Boris - Roadside Picnic Vance, Jack - The Dying Earth Vinge, Vernor - A Fire Upon the Deep Vonnegut, Kurt - Cat’s Cradle Vonnegut, Kurt - The Sirens of Titan Willis, Connie - Doomsday Book Wolfe, Gene - The Fifth Head of Cerberus Wolfe, Gene - The Citadel of the Auturch / Sword and Citadel Wyndham, John - The Chrysalids
Over the year I've read many of them, but not all. I really fell in love with William Gibson and Neal Stephenson through this. Iain Banks, one of my favourite authors was not on this list though. There were also a few that didn't click with me, Grey Lensman being the main one. Many of these were already named, but there maybe something for you in there.
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Post by berkley on Jul 24, 2017 12:27:35 GMT -5
Wolfe, Gene - The Citadel of the Auturch / Sword and Citadel Can these be read in isolation or do you have to start from the beginning? I thought there were more books in the series but didn't look it up to check.
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Post by Dizzy D on Jul 25, 2017 4:03:42 GMT -5
I've noticed that I just blindly copied it from my booklist: I already had the first 3 novels when I made the list, so I didn't put them on, Citadel of the Autarch is the 4th novel and Sword and Citadel combines the third and fourth novel. There are four books (though I believe there was another one added years later (quick google gives me that yes, there was a fifth book.), but later editions combine the first two books and the last two books. There are also some bundles of short stories set in the same universe, but I never read those.
The list should read: The Shadow of the Torturer The Claw of the Conciliator The Sword of the Lictor The Citadel of the Autarch and then as epilogue The Urth of the New Sun
I don't think that you can read them independently.
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Post by Jesse on Jul 25, 2017 14:01:19 GMT -5
I watched the documentary Jodorowsky's Dune this afternoon, detailing his failed attempt to make a Dune film in the early/mid-70s. Most of the principals appear in the documentary (Jodo, Giger, Foss, etc. except for Moebius, who had passed before the doc was made. O'Bannon's appearance was an audio interview done before he passed about Dune but was not done specifically for this documentary). The behind the curtain glimpse is interesting, the design and art work is amazing, the cast would have been amazing...Orson Welles as Baron Harkonnen, Dali as the Emperor!...but Jodo took a lot of liberties with the story, radically changing it (and not necessarily for the better from what I could tell). Still, I would love to own one of those giant tomes that contained all the storyboards by Moebius and design work by Foss, Giger and others. If you like behind the scenes looks at the creative process, like Dune or Meobius or Giger or any of the principals involved, it is well worth checking out. -M I really enjoyed that documentary. On letterboxd I called it "The most influential movie never made". It's kind of heart breaking that it doesn't actually exist on film. The tremendous talent that was assembled to try and make this film is kind of mind blowing and I would love to read through one of the pre-production books with the storyboards and all the concept art.
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Post by String on Jul 26, 2017 20:08:51 GMT -5
For pure epic space opera, try the Lensman Saga, from EE "Doc" Smith (he was a chemist, who worked for a baking company, designing flavor mixes, while writing stories for the pulps). The series features a eugenics progect by two warring alien races that leads to a group of intergalactic peacekeepers and their opposition, a race of intergalactic pirates. george Lucas swiped much form it, for the more militaristic aspects of the Jedi, as well as the plot for the opening of Star wars, which mirrors that of the first Lensman novel, The Galactic Patrol. The Lensmen also influenced the Rangers of Babylon 5. Smith also wrote the Skylark series, about a space opera adventure hero. Didn't Lensman also influence the Silver Age relaunch of Green Lantern with the idea of the GLC? I also seem to recall an early 80s anime based on Lensman but I have no idea how faithful it was to the source material (it could just be that it was related in title alone).
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Post by String on Jul 26, 2017 20:45:52 GMT -5
Wow, some great suggestions so far. Here's a few more:
Books:
The Orion set of books by Ben Bova Orion Vengeance of Orion Orion in the Dying Time Orion and the Conqueror Orion Among the Stars
The stories focus on Orion, a human gifted with almost absolute control over his body and functions as he serves as a hunter/warrior/assassin throughout time for a group of humans in the far distant future whose evolved into near-godlike beings. These beings begin to manipulate the timestream and soon realize the dangers of doing so, even for ones of their power. Bova conceived the series after wondering about the myths and legends of the ancient world, what would it be like if those gods were from the future and the legendary deeds afforded to these warriors were in fact all the same man?
The Man Who Folded Himself by David Gerrold
Yes, this is the same writer who scribed the famous 'Troubles with Tribbles' episode of the original Star Trek. Here, Gerrold takes the paradoxes and perils of time-travel to their illogical extreme conclusions.
Comics:
Alien Legion - this Epic imprint from Marvel is simply 'the French Foreign Legion in space'. The Legion here are the expendable fodder soldiers of the Tophan Galactic Union which stretches across three galaxies. It's military sci-fi to a degree but it also serves up some excellent drama as we glimpse the varied reasons behind and the results of fighting for the Legion for these characters. Alien Legion has enjoyed some longevity, even having received a new mini-series from Titan comics a few year ago.
Nausicaa of the Valley of the Winds - while not strictly science fiction (more like science fantasy) this manga series by Miyazaki details the struggles of young Nausicaa, a princess of the the Valley of the Winds in a post-apocalyptic setting where Earth's environment still contends with catastrophes and mutant pollution. While the '84 anime film is a great adaption, the manga offers more view and scope of this future world as war threatens to engulf the fragile future of mankind too.
TV:
Rocky Jones, Space Ranger - I learned of this series from an article in CBG magazine. It only lasted for two seasons and ran in the early 50s. The series is notably for the quality of it's effects and a tighter sense of continuity for the time. Some great early space opera. Both seasons are available on DVD.
Anime:
Cowboy BeBop - one of it's genres is science fiction (or perhaps fantasy). Earth suffers a catastrophe forcing humanity to colonize the other worlds in the solar system. A group of offbeat bounty hunters ply the space lanes looking for their next score. It's a combination of several type of genres(sci-fi, western, noir, comedy, etc) that somehow work together beautifully, featuring one of the most amazing soundtracks ever. It's also one of those rare animes where the English voice-over cast is more popular than the original Japanese cast.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 26, 2017 20:50:59 GMT -5
For pure epic space opera, try the Lensman Saga, from EE "Doc" Smith (he was a chemist, who worked for a baking company, designing flavor mixes, while writing stories for the pulps). The series features a eugenics progect by two warring alien races that leads to a group of intergalactic peacekeepers and their opposition, a race of intergalactic pirates. george Lucas swiped much form it, for the more militaristic aspects of the Jedi, as well as the plot for the opening of Star wars, which mirrors that of the first Lensman novel, The Galactic Patrol. The Lensmen also influenced the Rangers of Babylon 5. Smith also wrote the Skylark series, about a space opera adventure hero. Didn't Lensman also influence the Silver Age relaunch of Green Lantern with the idea of the GLC? I also seem to recall an early 80s anime based on Lensman but I have no idea how faithful it was to the source material (it could just be that it was related in title alone). Yeah, there is definitely an influence there, which Steve Engelhart used for an homage, when he introduced Arysia and Eddore, named for the two races in the series, The Arysians (the benevolent aliens who create the Galactic Patrol) and the Eddorians, who are the creators of the Boskone pirates. There was an anime but, it pretty much jettisons the plot of the series and copies Green Lantern (a dying Lensman passes his lens to Kim Kinnison) than the comics copied Smith's writing. It does have a few scenes that are in the Galactic Patrol. I've only read The Galactic Patrol and Triplanetary, so far. Triplanetary is the history of the genetic manipulation and the generations that follow. It was written later, but forms the beginning of the saga. The Galactic Patrol was the first novel written, and is built around Kim Kinnison's first adventure, as a Lensman. His ship is seeking info on an advanced Boskone raiding ship. They are attacked by the Boskone, who board their ship from space, wearing space armor, and battle the Patrol troopers in armor. Kim Kinnison ejects in a lifeboat, with a wire recording of the schematics of the Boskone raider. he lands on an alien planet, where he ends up getting aid from another, alien Lensman. Later in the story, they try to locate the Boskone's moving space fortress, and launch an attack on it. Sound familiar? One of the Star Wars prequel featurettes has an interview with Lucas and one of the Lensman books can be seen on a shelf, behind him. In earlier script drafts, the Jedi were more militaristic and bore more of a resemblance to the Lensmen. the lens boosts their physical abilities, sharpens their senses, and allows them to communicate with alien races. It was only later they became more like the samurai and/or Shaolin monks. Even Ben's wardrobe wasn't meant to be a monastic robe, it was the same kind of desert attire that everyone else on tatooine wore. It is only later we see that adopted as Jedi robes. The Lensman OVA was available in the early 90s, and shown quite a bit on the Sci-Fi Channel, in their anime blocks. It's okay, for what it is, but kind of slows down a lot, in the middle (something I notice in a lot of anime). The Japanese seem to use a different narrative structure than Western drama and the middle always feels slow, compared to the rest, even compared to more character-driven Western films.
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Post by berkley on Jul 26, 2017 22:07:24 GMT -5
Larry Niven question:
I am a huge fan of Niven's Ringworld and The Mote in God's Eye, which he wrote along with Jerry Pournelle, but all the other Niven books I've read (Lucifer's hammer, Footfall, Protector, Inferno, the second Ringworld book) I found enjoyable but several notches those two in quality. That still leaves quite a few I haven't read, so my question is, how do any Larry Niven readers out there rate his other books?
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Post by LovesGilKane on Jul 27, 2017 2:50:53 GMT -5
being a fan of Richard Matheson, i greatly enjoyed The Box, 2009 film based his 1970 short story "Button, Button"
i couldn't find a comics version made before the film; would have been perfect for Steranko or Wrightson, or even Byrne circa 1978 Byrne.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 1:34:19 GMT -5
Larry Niven question: I am a huge fan of Niven's Ringworld and The Mote in God's Eye, which he wrote along with Jerry Pournelle, but all the other Niven books I've read (Lucifer's hammer, Footfall, Protector, Inferno, the second Ringworld book) I found enjoyable but several notches those two in quality. That still leaves quite a few I haven't read, so my question is, how do any Larry Niven readers out there rate his other books? I liked a lot of Niven's work, but there's a both a marked deterioration in quality over time, and conversely there was an increase in depth towards his middle period. With Ringworld and MiGE you've probably hit the sweet spot. As for the rest, all his Tales of Known Space are worth reading, but they're all very slight works - very plot driven, often using interesting wrinkles of physics, but with fairly cardboard characters (which in fairness, is a problem throughout moist of his output). The other thing to watch out for is that many (many) of his books, particularly the Known Space set are collections of short stories, with large degrees of overlap between them, you really don't need to read more than 1 or 2 of them to get the whole set of stories. The Ringworld sequel, Ringworld Engineers is definitely worth reading. The further two sequels, Ringworld Throne and Ringworld's Children, very much are not. The Golden Road series (Burning City, Burning Tower) are dreadful Moat Around Murchison's Eye is a decent sequel to Mote, which you'd probably enjoy if you liked Mote. King David's Spaceship by Jerry Pournelle is also set in the same universe, around the time of the orignal Mote book, and isn't bad either. I quite like the first 3 Dream Park books ( Dream Park, the Barsoom Project and the Voodoo Game, haven't read the 4th), but you have to accept the central conceit of the cultural importance of costumed gamers The State series was really weak - that's A World out of Time, Integral Trees, and The Smoke Ring. As with so much of Niven, he's had an interesting idea based on science and then not really gone anywhere with the story around it. The Magic Goes Away series might appeal if you liked something like the Jack Vance Dying World series, though they're nowhere near as good. Caveat - I've only read the first 3 of this series, and as ever with Niven, diminishing returns generally sets in with a vengeance. Fallen Angels is an 'interesting' work - it's basically "Fanboys save the astronauts", and if you're interested in reading that kind of thing, or want a heavy-handed satire of new age antiscience, this is the book for you. In any other sense, avoid like the plague. He's co-written a few books with Steven Barnes: The Descent of Anansi isn't bad, Achilles' Choice is dreadful and Saturn's Race is even worse. I gave up at that point. I'd avoid the whole Man-Kzin series unless you're desperately keen on military scifi. Legacy of Heorot isn't bad, but the 2 sequels are - either treat that as a stand-alone novel or avoid all 3 With Jerry Pournelle, Oath of Fealty is readable, on a par with Lucifer's Hammer. Basically, if you avoid anything after about 1993, the books are readable, but slim, other than the ones you've read or I've specifically recommended above. After that, I don't think he's written anything worth reading.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 1:38:51 GMT -5
As I was writing that last post, I realised that I hadn't mentioned Jack Vance before and I don't think anyone else had. Simple recommendation - read some Jack Vance! If you like any of his work, you'll like most of it - there's nothing else quite like it for his turn of phrase, evocation of alien worlds through a few sentences, and a collection of irascible heroes with a fine line in unique Vance voice.
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