Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,958 
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Post by Crimebuster on May 24, 2017 13:59:03 GMT -5
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Post by Farrar on May 25, 2017 14:11:31 GMT -5
Okay, so this is the first podcast in the series where I'd actually read the stories--a few years ago, courtesy of the Cap Essentials--and so I was familiar with what was being discussed/analyzed. Great job, Crimebuster and Cap! You both made many interesting points; just a few of the highlights: Dr. Faustus, Peggy-Steve-Sharon, and --my favorite--that "solid number four starter in the rotation", Sal.  Looking forward to part 2. |
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Post by Prince Hal on May 25, 2017 14:40:38 GMT -5
Jeez Louise, do you guys know your stuff!
I wasn't a Cap reader during that period, but you made me wish I had been. I loved the Captain's take on Dr. Faustus: "He's a fat guy." made me laugh!
Thanks. Looking forward to Part 2!
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Post by Mormel on May 26, 2017 7:38:33 GMT -5
I'll listen to this podcast when I get around to re-reading this run, it's one of my all-time favourites! I have it in Essentials, but I also have two TPBs in colour, collecting the Secret Empire and Nomad arcs. I want to have the stories fresh in my mind when I hear you guys discuss it, and sadly my Captain America Essentials are stored at my aunt's house in Amsterdam; it'll take a while before I'll have a chance to visit her and bring some more comic books home.
But I've been a faithful listener of the show so far, haven't missed a single podcast. Keep it up, CB!
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 26, 2017 10:10:27 GMT -5
Great job, gentlemen!
It would be fun if Grant Morrison turned out to be a fan of the podcast.
I was taken aback: I sort of expected The Captain to have Nathan Fillion's voice!!!
I didn't realize at the time that Englehart was such a newcomer on the book; I started reading Captain America when the 1950s Cap first showed up. There was such energy in that comic! I loved Cap, Sharon and Sam. Englehart really hit the ground running.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,865
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Post by shaxper on May 26, 2017 10:40:06 GMT -5
4:50 - I'm a little amazed no one else has brought up Wolverine yet. Love the character, but man did he get over-exposed.
7:00 - Oh, c'mon. SAY Grant Morrison! I often associate Ellis with Morrison too, but I do think some of Ellis' work actually deserves the hype whereas that's less true for Morrison, Ennis, and Millar.
24:00 - Lee and Thomas, I think, made Cap work without being political by focusing on his grief and lack of purpose in the modern world. I've never read Golden Age Cap, but I found the Silver Age incarnation plenty intriguing without politics entering the equation.
30:00 - the Ad Man thing would have worked so much better in Howard The Duck. It's the kind of thing Gerber could pull off, but it was a poor fit for Englehart.
33:20 - Wouldn't that imply Solar's a mutant? The peyote thing...was that a joke?
34:50 - No, I agree. That's totally Roy Thomas to dive into the continuity archives and resurrect an old loose thread. Cool idea though. Now I want to read this issue.
38:30 - Loving what you guys are saying about Dr. Faustus. Never read the character. More for me to seek out!
40:00 - Hadn't the Avengers already been discredited like three times prior to this? Spider-Man and the X-Men too. I don't think Englehart invented this.
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
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Post by Crimebuster on May 26, 2017 10:49:49 GMT -5
40:00 - Hadn't the Avengers already been discredited like three times prior to this? Spider-Man and the X-Men too. I don't think Englehart invented this. Not sure about X-Men, because I can't abide Silver Age X-men stories. In Avengers, at this point they hadn't really been discredited by the media in this way yet. They had a couple p.r. issues of course, and Roy Thomas and Neal Adams got sort of into adjacent territory with their Skrull politician in the Kree/Skrull war, but not quite the same sort of thing. I'd also argue that that J.J.J. media stuff in Spider-man was of a different tone, as it always felt to me like a personal character thing as opposed to the larger societal message Englehart was doing. However, your main point is probably correct. When I listened to the podcast again, one thing I wish we had mentioned during this part of the conversation is that Kirby was doing some similar commentary with characters like Godfrey and Funky Flashman over in the Fourth World books. It was definitely a part of the zeitgeist at this time, but I do think Englehart was one of the first to really tap into it and do something memorable with it. I think it's fairer to say that he was at the vanguard rather than that he created it. |
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,958
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Post by Crimebuster on May 26, 2017 11:00:11 GMT -5
33:20 - Wouldn't that imply Solar's a mutant? The peyote thing...was that a joke? Not a joke on my part, no. More of an inside joke by Englehart! The origin itself is vague on how he gets his powers from passing out in the desert. The lettercolumn in #165 is also vague about it - it just points the reader towards the writings of.. someone, I forget the name. But if you look into his writings, they were like... shamanistic musings on the power of peyote that were popular at the time. I think Steve probably had read the books and threw it in there as an inside reference, one that he couldn't be overt about because of the Code. 38:30 - Loving what you guys are saying about Dr. Faustus. Never read the character. More for me to seek out! Dr. Faustus is absolutely fantastic. Not all of his stories are great, but he's great in all of them, if that makes sense. Gruenwald did some cool stories with him, bringing him back after many years of being forgotten, and much later Brubaker did some awesome things with him as well. I almost dressed as Dr. Faustus for Halloween once, but I couldn't get the monocle to work.  |
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Post by lobsterjohnson on May 26, 2017 12:29:08 GMT -5
7:00 - Oh, c'mon. SAY Grant Morrison! I often associate Ellis with Morrison too, but I do think some of Ellis' work actually deserves the hype whereas that's less true for Morrison, Ennis, and Millar. I agree that Morrison and Millar's comics tend to be overrated, IMO (I haven't read much of Ellis besides Moon Knight, which was great). Out of curiosity, which of Ennis's comics do you feel are overrated? I'm really only familiar with his Punisher and (some of) his Nick Fury, but I've enjoyed almost all of what I've read. |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2017 16:33:21 GMT -5
Great podcast!
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Post by Reptisaurus! on May 27, 2017 18:29:56 GMT -5
30:00 - the Ad Man thing would have worked so much better in Howard The Duck. It's the kind of thing Gerber could pull off, but it was a poor fit for Englehart. Gerber scripted some of that. (The first issue, I think.) When Engelhart picked up the story thread he noted that he had real trouble writing in ad-speak. |
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on May 28, 2017 12:37:30 GMT -5
I think I just wet myself, using the cover of my favorite comic, talking about an era that includes my favorite story ever, by the best Cap team ever, loading this on the phone now so I can listen on the way to work. Dont let the side down Captain
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2017 19:52:06 GMT -5
I think I just wet myself, using the cover of my favorite comic, talking about an era that includes my favorite story ever, by the best Cap team ever, loading this on the phone now so I can listen on the way to work. Dont let the side down Captain How'd you like it? |
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on May 29, 2017 3:11:20 GMT -5
Well that was a mission and a half. Of course I was going to be able to listen to this in my 14 yr old car on the way to work played on my phone with no headphones. What a maroon.
Well there's always after work you say. Aye Captain there is. Except of course apart from cooking tea and doing the talk to my woman thing you forgot to mention my bloody phone would go flat.
But I digress. ... firstly the Captain sounds a bit like Casey Kasem (?) to me ...O and the talky stuff was interesting too. Enjoyed the general stuff, likes and dislikes etc, as much as the Cap specific talk.
Have to say I disagree with your opinions on Sal Buscema although I do get it. Especially by today's standards his style is simplistic, but in my 53 year old, 12 year olds brain he drew the 70s. While I love the King, Sal was THE artist I associated most with Cap (and Spider-Man and Hulk) because of his work before and after Jacks return.
Some of my earliest memories of comics shaped my love of this era, sitting in a schoolmates bedroom, devouring piles of FF, Spider-Man. and the Cap story you started with. Of course these are the only issues I feel strongly enough about, to want to track down and collect.
Oops, more digression. Liked it mate and looking forward to your views on the Nomad storyline...and Frank Robbins.
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Post by The Captain on May 29, 2017 7:59:35 GMT -5
shaxperI really couldn't say Grant Morrison, because outside of his run on New X-Men (#114-154), I haven't read much of his stuff. Reptisaurus! You're absolutely right about Gerber's involvement. He worked on issue #157, which was Viper's first appearance, but didn't have any hand in the rest of Englehart's run. Paste Pot Paul I didn't mean my comments about Sal Buscema as a slight. His work is perfectly acceptable, but for me, he's just not a guy I would specifically buy a book because he was drawing it, like I would for a Sienkiewicz, Simonson, Windsor-Smith, Wrightson, etc. To take the baseball analogy a little further, I've driven long distances on a whim or paid big money on the secondary market to see aces pitch, or even really strong #2 guys in a rotation, but I've never made a decision to go to a game because a team's #4 pitcher was going to start that game; those guys can do good work, but they're not someone I get excited about.
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