|
Post by berkley on Apr 7, 2018 23:41:28 GMT -5
This should probably go in the history thread but I think you're being very unfair to Herodotus and Thucydides: unlike the authors of the Gospels, who were writing with a religious purpose, they were actually trying to write history, whatever flaws might be present in their methodology and their finished work, and in fact might be said to have invented the very concept of history, as pretty much everything up to then had been either straight, bare-bones chronology ("In the 3rd year of King So-and-so's reign, he defeated the Xians and built the great temple of Such-and-such") or blatant propaganda, painting every conflict as good guys (us) vs bad guys (them).
Herodotus's History was a huge step forward from all this. He tried to do research, travelling when he could to the places involved and talking to the locals, listening their stories: this in itself was a new idea: he consistently reported several different conflicting accounts of the same events when he thought there was no strong basis for choosing one over the others - another new idea, as opposed to just picking the version that best fit the writer's propagandistic purposes and embellishing it even further. He also quite often gave a rational alternative to explanations that resorted to the supernatural (read the anecdote about the fish again). And though he certainly was writing as a Greek who was naturally in favour of Greece retaining its freedom from the Persian Empire, he did NOT paint the Persian Wars as a battle of good vs evil (unlike Frank Miller) - if he didn't achieve absolutely perfect objectivity, the very idea of even trying to do this was yet another unprecedented conceptual leap. If you haven't read his History for some time I think you should give it another look.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2018 0:41:26 GMT -5
That's so true berkley for your understanding of Herodotus (and Thucydides).
|
|
|
Post by EdoBosnar on Apr 8, 2018 3:12:31 GMT -5
1) Yeah, I agree that this discussion has started to spin away from the thread's heading and should probably be moved if it continues; and 2) agree with berkeley about Herodotus and Thucydides, which can also apply to the other ancient historians, geographers, etc.; their works may have been flawed and often inaccurate, but they did establish the first techniques for engaging in actual scholarship and research. The writers and compilers of religious texts usually have no such intentions.
|
|
|
Post by Rob Allen on Apr 9, 2018 15:00:40 GMT -5
Eric Shanower's Age of Bronze is a plausible, down-to-earth retelling of the Trojan War. I highly recommend it.
|
|
|
Post by thwhtguardian on Apr 9, 2018 15:31:24 GMT -5
Eric Shanower's Age of Bronze is a plausible, down-to-earth retelling of the Trojan War. I highly recommend it. I really need to track that down.
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 9, 2018 17:12:06 GMT -5
1) Yeah, I agree that this discussion has started to spin away from the thread's heading and should probably be moved if it continues; and 2) agree with berkeley about Herodotus and Thucydides, which can also apply to the other ancient historians, geographers, etc.; their works may have been flawed and often inaccurate, but they did establish the first techniques for engaging in actual scholarship and research. The writers and compilers of religious texts usually have no such intentions. I don’t disgree, but I also don’t quite see how that relates to the reason that these authors (both of whom I love, especially Thucydides) were first brought up when talking about the gospels: they both said things that they couldn’t possibly have known about, implying some creative freedom. (Well, perhaps Thucydides more than Herodotus, as the former gives us the text pf several speeches as if he had been present and taking notes, while the latter mostly just relates the tall tales of other people). By the way, anyone who enjoys the first chapters of Herodotus’s Histories is advised to check out the excellent four-part series Conquests. It has Scythians, Calipedes, Cimmerians, Babylonians, Hittites, mammoths, griffins and as much action and sense of historical wonder as the old Greek historian and Robert E. Howard could muster!
|
|
|
Post by comicsandwho on May 2, 2018 20:30:02 GMT -5
An update(well, month-old news I just found out): Looking at the JBF Forum(although I'm no longer permitted to post, I can still read it), I saw thread from about two weeks ago, in which Byrne mentioned that he'd finished his last issue of his only remaining comic book project a month ago(that would be the STAR TREK NEW VISIONS photonovel series). So, until something changes the circumstance, John Byrne is now retired(and it hasn't even been long enough for him to get bored). It wasn't so long ago that 'John Byrne Retires' would have been momentous news, Now, it's more like 'Old Man Stops Yelling At Cloud, Takes Nap.'
|
|
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on May 3, 2018 6:23:06 GMT -5
An update(well, month-old news I just found out): Looking at the JBF Forum(although I'm no longer permitted to post, I can still read it), I saw thread from about two weeks ago, in which Byrne mentioned that he'd finished his last issue of his only remaining comic book project a month ago(that would be the STAR TREK NEW VISIONS photonovel series). So, until something changes the circumstance, John Byrne is now retired(and it hasn't even been long enough for him to get bored). It wasn't so long ago that 'John Byrne Retires' would have been momentous news, Now, it's more like 'Old Man Stops Yelling At Cloud, Takes Nap.' Unfortunately true! It’s hard to believe that people like him are reaching retirement age... I still view them as young up and coming creators. That’s what happens when your references are late ‘70s- early 80’s comics! ( May I retire too? Please?)
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on May 3, 2018 8:07:16 GMT -5
It's kind of sad, he's still capable of producing nice artwork.
|
|
|
Post by comicsandwho on May 3, 2018 14:22:14 GMT -5
Apparently, he stopped doing commissions a few months ago, claiming that he no longer enjoyed the thing he used to love about them...they were the way to 'keep in touch' with the silver and bronze age versions of characters. He said that reason now 'saddened' him.
|
|
|
Post by rberman on May 3, 2018 14:38:01 GMT -5
Apparently, he stopped doing commissions a few months ago, claiming that he no longer enjoyed the thing he used to love about them...they were the way to 'keep in touch' with the silver and bronze age versions of characters. He said that reason now 'saddened' him. Depression sucks.
|
|
|
Post by comicsandwho on May 3, 2018 14:47:29 GMT -5
Judging by his forum comments, and seeming ability to enjoy nothing(every 'old' TV show he tries to watch on DVD 'doesn't hold up well'. or is 'too slow') and find fault with everything, that's been the case for a long time.
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on May 12, 2018 2:17:39 GMT -5
One way out of depression is to serve others. Maybe Mr Byrne doesn't reach out to people in need.
|
|
|
Post by Slam_Bradley on May 12, 2018 10:03:25 GMT -5
One way out of depression is to serve others. Maybe Mr Byrne doesn't reach out to people in need.
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on May 16, 2018 5:35:38 GMT -5
To be fair, even other seasoned pros that are still capable aren't getting work. I'm guessing it's cheaper to pay some new person peanuts than give decent pay to Byrne, Ordway, lim, etc.
|
|