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Post by Mormel on Mar 12, 2017 17:36:24 GMT -5
Just wanted to say I think this is a really cool idea, Crimebuster. I hope this is gonna be a recurring thing.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 13, 2017 7:35:37 GMT -5
Regarding the death of Miss Grundy: it was indeed a very well-written arc... but I was a little annoyed that it apparently appeared in only one of the two universes. Not because I wish ill on Geraldine, but because I really don't see how Archie marrying either Betty or Veronica could cause Miss Grundy to develop cancer or not. The essential "What if..?" proposal flies out the window on this score. . I guess I just accepted the two realities as alternate -- not hinging solely upon whether Archie married Betty or Veronica, but just alternate. Archie's marriage decision didn't cause Moose's two different fates in the two different realities either. Plus you've got Fred Mirth appearing in only one timeline and Ambrose only appearing in the other. Who Archie married was the defining difference for the reader, but not for reality itself. That's certainly how it turned out, but on the very first page we were given to understand that it was indeed the marriage that would make the difference... hence my later disappointment. But then the introduction to Life with Archie also claims that the series is set between the marriage and before Veronica gives birth to twins (as seen in the "Archie marries Veronica" story line), and as we know that later event would never happen. It's a bit as with the early Valiant comics: the timeline was very tightly controlled for a few years, and then (with titles like Timewalker) it became far more malleable. Regarding the example of Moose running for mayor: I don't mean to nag, but I believe it is the marriage that caused Marmaduke to have two different fates! In both universes, there is a reunion of the old gang at Pop Tate's and in both cases Moose tells of his taking anger management classes (suggesting that up to that point the two Mooses (Meese?) have had pretty much the same history). But In the A+V universe, Archie and Betty deliver Mr. Lodge's ultimatum to Pop, causing everyone to bemoan the disappearance of the Old Riverdale and prompting Moose to realize he can do a difference by running for mayor. This does not happen in the A+B universe, and since no ultimatum is delivered, Moose's road to Damascus moment slips away. He goes on with the regular job at Riverdale High, a job he held in the two universes. Such butterfly effect moments were actually one of my favourite aspects of the two series at first!
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Mar 13, 2017 7:56:42 GMT -5
Regarding the example of Moose running for mayor: I don't mean to nag, but I believe it is the marriage that caused Marmaduke to have two different fates! In both universes, there is a reunion of the old gang at Pop Tate's and in both cases Moose tells of his taking anger management classes (suggesting that up to that point the two Mooses (Meese?) have had pretty much the same history). But In the A+V universe, Archie and Betty deliver Mr. Lodge's ultimatum to Pop, causing everyone to bemoan the disappearance of the Old Riverdale and prompting Moose to realize he can do a difference by running for mayor. This does not happen in the A+B universe, and since no ultimatum is delivered, Moose's road to Damascus moment slips away. He goes on with the regular job at Riverdale High, a job he held in the two universes. Such butterfly effect moments were actually one of my favourite aspects of the two series at first! I stand corrected! Honestly, I'd intended to review the whole series ahead of doing the podcast, but I'd forgotten I'd lent the series out to a friend, so my memories of the individual stories are rusty at best.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Mar 13, 2017 10:45:09 GMT -5
very indepth stuff there guys! And I still disagree with your opinion on Morrison's run on Batman Shax!
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Post by shaxper on Mar 13, 2017 11:41:06 GMT -5
very indepth stuff there guys! And I still disagree with your opinion on Morrison's run on Batman Shax! You defended me from that ugly horde all the same, my friend. I shall never forget that
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Post by thwhtguardian on Mar 13, 2017 11:45:01 GMT -5
very indepth stuff there guys! And I still disagree with your opinion on Morrison's run on Batman Shax! You defended me from that ugly horde all the same, my friend. I shall never forget that Though I think I was a member of the ugly horde at first ha. I loved the history of Moose. I need to get more Archie Crimebuster.
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Post by Farrar on Mar 13, 2017 15:21:56 GMT -5
I have some time now to add a few more comments: shaxper, you've probably looked it up already but in case you didn't (and in case anyone else is interested): Moose's dyslexia was disclosed back in 1984, in Archie at Riverdale High #98. Crimebuster, that is so wild about interviewing Nicole Kidman! I'm so glad you guys discussed Midge. I'm someone who stopped reading contemporary Archie comics (and comics overall) in the early '70s, but IIRC at times Reggie seemed to go for Midge back then. So for me it would have more appropriate if he'd married her in this series in the Archie marries Veronica world. Your discussion and analysis has convinced me to read this series, so I'll be picking up the trades soon. Thanks!
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 15, 2017 7:44:47 GMT -5
The podcast got me to re-read the first year of the series, and I just now realized that Mr. Weatherbee and Ms. Grundy are nowhere to be seen in "AmV". So perhaps Geraldine did die in that reality too, and that her funeral happened off-page.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Mar 15, 2017 8:36:29 GMT -5
The podcast got me to re-read the first year of the series, and I just now realized that Mr. Weatherbee and Ms. Grundy are nowhere to be seen in "AmV". So perhaps Geraldine did die in that reality too, and that her funeral happened off-page. Did the marriages happen in that reality though? Really wish I had the issues on me so that I could read them again.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 15, 2017 8:42:15 GMT -5
The podcast got me to re-read the first year of the series, and I just now realized that Mr. Weatherbee and Ms. Grundy are nowhere to be seen in "AmV". So perhaps Geraldine did die in that reality too, and that her funeral happened off-page. Did the marriages happen in that reality though? Really wish I had the issues on me so that I could read them again. As far as I can tell, neither character is mentioned at all. I remember seeing professor Flutesnoot in one panel, but that's about it for Riverdale High's staff. I'm getting to the point where Mr. Lodge's behaviour and Fred Mirth's buying land around Riverdale are going to be tied to the transdimensional shenanigans of evil Dilton. What a pity... the book worked so well as a straight soap opera kind of thing.
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Post by shaxper on Mar 15, 2017 10:00:46 GMT -5
I'm getting to the point where Mr. Lodge's behaviour and Fred Mirth's buying land around Riverdale are going to be tied to the transdimensional shenanigans of evil Dilton. What a pity... the book worked so well as a straight soap opera kind of thing. I loved it, myself, but then CB and I already said it all in the podcast.
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Post by beatman10 on Jul 24, 2021 12:19:41 GMT -5
I just discovered this podcast this week and found it very insightful on The Married Life, Four years too late I might add! The three Archie "Married Series'" starting with the 2009 Archie Wedding, this one and the 2019-20 10th Anniversary series are what got me back into reading Archie comics again. Your history lesson on the company and how major changes came about around 2009 was informative. Reading this series, I felt the Veronica universe was depressing and Archie's marriage was a train wreck. He's stuck at a job he hates. working for Veronica's father who forces him to betray his friends all in the name of "business". Their marriage got better much later in the story, but I still felt "Okay, when is Archie going to make Ronnie mad and file for divorce again?" I felt the same way like you said about the other couples, how, everyone ended up with the wrong person. Jughead and Betty should have been a couple in this universe, I sometimes think there is a "No Jughead/Betty" rule in the Archie Comics employee handbook. I felt the characters, in both universes, took on personality traits of the girl Archie was married to, For instance, in the Betty-verse, everyone seemed nicer, more mature, more willing to help one another. In the Veronica-verse, everyone seemed more stormy and angry. It's no coincidence that all the couples' strife and breakups happened in that timeline. The couples were stronger and more canon on the Betty side. Archie is simply happier with Betty. He still has a music career, and even though they were have problems toward the end with Betty's job taking up all her time, I never felt divorce would ever become an option. I actually liked the Jughead/Midge pairing in the Betty-verse. If it wasn't for Midge supporting Jughead in his bid to buy the Chock'lit Shop, he would have given up. It was pretty cool to see Jughead mature into a good husband and eventual father. I also agree that the ending sucked with Archie dying. They could have had him survive the shooting. He would have still been a hero and issue #37 could have shown Archie witnessing the birth of his twins in both universes.
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Post by beatman10 on Apr 3, 2022 17:50:12 GMT -5
The podcast got me to re-read the first year of the series, and I just now realized that Mr. Weatherbee and Ms. Grundy are nowhere to be seen in "AmV". So perhaps Geraldine did die in that reality too, and that her funeral happened off-page. Ms. Grundy didn't die in "AMV". She was standing with Mr. Weatherbee at Kevin Keller's wedding and later on she was at Jughead's wedding. It was never mentioned if her and Weatherbee were married, dating or just friends. In this universe, all of the Riverdale faculty made only cameo appearances and didn't have any influence on the storyline.
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Post by beatman10 on Apr 3, 2022 17:55:42 GMT -5
I have some time now to add a few more comments: shaxper , you've probably looked it up already but in case you didn't (and in case anyone else is interested): Moose's dyslexia was disclosed back in 1984, in Archie at Riverdale High #98. Crimebuster , that is so wild about interviewing Nicole Kidman! I'm so glad you guys discussed Midge. I'm someone who stopped reading contemporary Archie comics (and comics overall) in the early '70s, but IIRC at times Reggie seemed to go for Midge back then. So for me it would have more appropriate if he'd married her in this series in the Archie marries Veronica world. Your discussion and analysis has convinced me to read this series, so I'll be picking up the trades soon. Thanks!
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Post by beatman10 on Apr 3, 2022 18:15:21 GMT -5
I have some time now to add a few more comments: shaxper , you've probably looked it up already but in case you didn't (and in case anyone else is interested): Moose's dyslexia was disclosed back in 1984, in Archie at Riverdale High #98. Crimebuster , that is so wild about interviewing Nicole Kidman! I'm so glad you guys discussed Midge. I'm someone who stopped reading contemporary Archie comics (and comics overall) in the early '70s, but IIRC at times Reggie seemed to go for Midge back then. So for me it would have more appropriate if he'd married her in this series in the Archie marries Veronica world. Your discussion and analysis has convinced me to read this series, so I'll be picking up the trades soon. Thanks! Midge was like a ship without a rudder in "AMV". First, she breaks up with Moose due to his anger and possessiveness controlling her. She then dates Jughead and helps him get funding to buy the Chock'lit Shop. But Jughead didn't want to marry her, so they break up and she disappears out of the story. She supposedly then was dating Moe Miller, Jughead's silent partner. But when she finally resurfaces at the end of the story. she looks totally different and she isn't seen with Miller. I do have a theory on what was going on with her. I think she was done with men altogether. Anyone else think that?
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