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Post by impulse on Jul 29, 2020 11:24:23 GMT -5
When we were all together, sitting around listening to the likes of Metallica or Iron Maiden or Judas Priest, I'd always be trying to slip on bits of Depeche Mode or the Smiths or Bob Dylan. Actually, some of my "metaler" friends did end up quite getting into Depeche Mode, which is nice. And they all loved the Beatles as well, surprisingly. I daresay that's not as surprising as you are thinking. The Beatles were MASSIVELY influential, and a lot of those guys in the metal bands are huge fans of the Beatles and/or or band who were influenced by them. The guys from Metallica stated in interviews they had posters of Joe Perry on the walls, and Aerosmith definitely was influenced by The Beatles. I don't have specific examples but knowing their backgrounds, I'm very confident the Beatles DNA made its way into a lot of those bands. I also think there is a larger occurrence of just bigger music fans liking a broader variety of music than casual listeners in any case. If you do have any interest in sticking your toe into those bands, Master of Puppets is a good starting point. Their now-deceased bassist Cliff Burton brought classical training and taught the guys theory, and he had a large creative input on this album. You might even start with the instrumental Orion. Not saying it's like Depeche Mode stylistically, but it has a transportative quality to it. Rust in Peace has some of the best guitar lead work ever laid down and not in a generic 80s guitar-wank notion, but the melodies are almost lyrical. That said, the rhythm work is pretty aggressive so might not be the easiest to come into cold lol. If you are really interested in exploring this path I'm happy to try and put together suggestions based on other stuff you like. Or if you don't care, all good.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 29, 2020 14:25:51 GMT -5
When we were all together, sitting around listening to the likes of Metallica or Iron Maiden or Judas Priest, I'd always be trying to slip on bits of Depeche Mode or the Smiths or Bob Dylan. Actually, some of my "metaler" friends did end up quite getting into Depeche Mode, which is nice. And they all loved the Beatles as well, surprisingly. I daresay that's not as surprising as you are thinking. The Beatles were MASSIVELY influential, and a lot of those guys in the metal bands are huge fans of the Beatles and/or or band who were influenced by them. The guys from Metallica stated in interviews they had posters of Joe Perry on the walls, and Aerosmith definitely was influenced by The Beatles. I don't have specific examples but knowing their backgrounds, I'm very confident the Beatles DNA made its way into a lot of those bands. Oh, absolutely. The Beatles influenced EVERYBODY! For a heavy metal musician to be into the Beatles isn't that surprising, but it's maybe more surprising for a die-hard metal fan to be. But then again, the Beatles transcend so many genres, don't they? And you could certainly point to Beatles' songs like "Helter Skelter" and "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" as being proto-heavy metal. I also think there is a larger occurrence of just bigger music fans liking a broader variety of music than casual listeners in any case. Yes, that's probably true. Anyone who is a big music fan is going to start looking outside of their prefered genre for other cool stuff, sooner or later. If you do have any interest in sticking your toe into those bands, Master of Puppets is a good starting point. Their now-deceased bassist Cliff Burton brought classical training and taught the guys theory, and he had a large creative input on this album. You might even start with the instrumental Orion. Not saying it's like Depeche Mode stylistically, but it has a transportative quality to it. Rust in Peace has some of the best guitar lead work ever laid down and not in a generic 80s guitar-wank notion, but the melodies are almost lyrical. That said, the rhythm work is pretty aggressive so might not be the easiest to come into cold lol. If you are really interested in exploring this path I'm happy to try and put together suggestions based on other stuff you like. Or if you don't care, all good. Thanks. I might give Master of Puppets a spin next time I'm on Spotify. As I say, it's been decades since I was last made to listen to it.
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Post by impulse on Jul 29, 2020 15:47:42 GMT -5
Oh, absolutely. The Beatles influenced EVERYBODY! For a heavy metal musician to be into the Beatles isn't that surprising, but it's maybe more surprising for a die-hard metal fan to be. But then again, the Beatles transcend so many genres, don't they? And you could certainly point to Beatles' songs like "Helter Skelter" and "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" as being proto-heavy metal. Those two are definitely often cited as proto-metal songs.
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Post by impulse on Jul 30, 2020 9:06:14 GMT -5
ConfessorFunny side note, if I recall the story right, as much as fans of heavier and noisier music cite Helter Skelter as being influential, my understanding is McCartney was basically trying to be over the top on purpose so it was kind of a joke. Funny what people latch onto.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 30, 2020 13:07:07 GMT -5
ConfessorFunny side note, if I recall the story right, as much as fans of heavier and noisier music cite Helter Skelter as being influential, my understanding is McCartney was basically trying to be over the top on purpose so it was kind of a joke. Funny what people latch onto. I don't think it was a meant to be a joke, per se. McCartney says that he read in the music press that the Who had just recorded the loudest, dirtiest, most raucous rock 'n' roll track ever. He felt a pang of jealousy that the Beatles hadn't recorded such a track. When the track was eventually released it was "I Can See For Miles", which, while it's a great song, isn't actually all that noisy or raucous. So, "Helter Skelter" was his attempt to write a song that really was the noisiest, dirtiest, most raucous thing that had been recorded up to that point. He pretty much succeeded too (with an honourable mention to the Blue Cheer's Vincebus Eruptum album, of course).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 13:22:37 GMT -5
Confessor Funny side note, if I recall the story right, as much as fans of heavier and noisier music cite Helter Skelter as being influential, my understanding is McCartney was basically trying to be over the top on purpose so it was kind of a joke. Funny what people latch onto. So that's why it's my favorite Beatles song! (well, maybe tied with Back In The USSR. I can't believe I like any song that apes the Beach Boys)
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Post by impulse on Jul 30, 2020 14:31:16 GMT -5
ConfessorFunny side note, if I recall the story right, as much as fans of heavier and noisier music cite Helter Skelter as being influential, my understanding is McCartney was basically trying to be over the top on purpose so it was kind of a joke. Funny what people latch onto. I don't think it was a meant to be a joke, per se. McCartney says that he read in the music press that the Who had just recorded the loudest, dirtiest, most raucous rock 'n' roll track ever. He felt a pang of jealousy that the Beatles hadn't recorded such a track. When the track was eventually released it was "I Can See For Miles", which, while it's a great song, isn't actually all that noisy or raucous. So, "Helter Skelter" was his attempt to write a song that really was the noisiest, dirtiest, most raucous thing that had been recorded up to that point. He pretty much succeeded too (with an honourable mention to the Blue Cheer's Vincebus Eruptum album, of course). Yes, that's the more complete idea. Joke may have been the wrong word, but point being he was deliberately trying to be over the top and excessive, and quite agreed he succeeded. I read another interview where Lennon was asked about it and, to paraphrase basically said nah bro, that was ALL Paul. Which is funny because of the two, Paul is typically credited with the more saccharine and ballady stuff, but he went and did the dirtiest thing they ever did.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 14:37:30 GMT -5
I’ve found the Beatles talk by Impulse and Confessor to be fascinating. I am a fan. Well, here are some words (writer not known) from the 65th issue of ELECTRONIC SOUND, which was published about two months ago (I’ve only got around to reading it earlier today):
Good point!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 14:48:03 GMT -5
Were there ever any music magazines devoted specifically to heavy metal? I'm sure there must be a few now, in the age of genre compartmentalisation, but when did they first appear and what were the first ones? METAL HAMMER, published here in the UK, has been in print since 1986.
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Post by impulse on Jul 30, 2020 15:16:13 GMT -5
I’ve found the Beatles talk by Impulse and Confessor to be fascinating. I am a fan. Well, here are some words (writer not known) from the 65th issue of ELECTRONIC SOUND, which was published about two months ago (I’ve only got around to reading it earlier today): Good point! Interesting. I would be curious to know more about the idea that they laid groundwork for electronic music. I suppose that has to do with their complex overdub techniques in the studios that allowed them to create and record combinations of sounds that had not been heard before. Then again, Sgt. Pepper's Reprise always sounded like an analog techno remix to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 15:59:15 GMT -5
Well, hopefully it doesn’t mean the whole George Harrison/Bernie Krause “Electronic Sound” thing. ;-)
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Post by beccabear67 on Jul 30, 2020 16:50:50 GMT -5
Wasn't Kerrang! a metal music zine? McCartney and the Pink Floyd guys were very into stuff like the Radiophonics Workshop and Karlheinz Stockhausen, George Martin had worked with some of the Radiophonics people and even had a single on Parlophone out with Maddalena Fagandini under the pseudonym 'Ray Cathode' Waltz In Orbit/Time Beat. Parlophonme was mostly a novelty and comedy label before The Beatles. Parlophone 4949 Love Me Do was the first Beatles release. Pink Floyd outside the Maida Vale studios. Here's an article about McCartney's interest in the work of Delia Derbyshire of the Radiophonics Workshop who was famous for the original Doctor Who theme... www.theguardian.com/music/2013/mar/22/paul-mccartney-dr-who-yesterday
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Post by beccabear67 on Jul 30, 2020 16:58:41 GMT -5
A Beatles song that was meant as a joke was Yer Blues. John Lennon performed it once under the fictional group name Dirty Mac because it was a sort of piss-take of what Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac was doing at the time (Mick Fleetwood was George Harrison's Brother-In-Law). Oddly there are some Beatles fans who analyze it as a serious cry for help!
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 30, 2020 17:58:01 GMT -5
A Beatles song that was meant as a joke was Yer Blues. John Lennon performed it once under the fictional group name Dirty Mac because it was a sort of piss-take of what Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac was doing at the time (Mick Fleetwood was George Harrison's Brother-In-Law). Oddly there are some Beatles fans who analyze it as a serious cry for help! I think it's both a joke and somewhat serious. The song as written while the Beatles were in India on an acoustic guitar, and initially was an attempt by Lennon to emulate old bluesmen like Sleep John Estes or Jesse Fuller. If you listen to Lennon's May 1968 solo acoustic demo of the song, it really does sound like an old country blues song. Also, we should bear in mind that the song may not have had its mocking "Yer Blues" title at this point. In its stripped back demo version, Lennon plays the song totally straight and there's no clowning around; it's given a very heartfelt rendition. Once the Beatles were in the studio, there's no doubt that it was recorded as something of a piss take of Eric Clapton, Fleetwood Mac, John Mayall's Blues Breakers, and the whole British Blues Boom scene -- complete with jokey title "Yer Blues", humorous nod to Bob Dylan's "Ballad of a Thin Man" in the lyrics, and the clearly tongue-in-cheek line "...even hate my rock 'n' roll", right before the band shifts into a Fats Domino-esque boogie shuffle. However, even then, there's far too much passion and venom in Lennon's vocal for it to be a complete piss take, I feel. In later years, Lennon tended to dismiss the song as nothing more than a parody, but I think that was just Lennon being flippant during his bitter, anti-Beatles period in the early '70s (like he was about many Beatles songs). I think that there is enough genuine angst in both the lyrics and Lennon's vocals to make it quite obvious to anyone with ears to hear that it wasn't just a parody. The fact that Lennon later chose the song as the one and only Beatles song he would perform with the Dirty Mac supergroup at the Stones Rock 'n' Roll Circus, and again during the Toronto Rock and Roll Revival festival (both times with Clapton in the band), shows that he thought a lot of the song. This wasn't just him being Machiavellian or two-faced to Clapton, behind his back, or just wanting to take the piss out of Fleetwood Mac. He clearly genuinely rated "Yer Blues" as a good song in its own right. I find it hard to believe that Lennon would've placed such importance on a song that was just parody and parody only.
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Post by beccabear67 on Jul 30, 2020 19:35:45 GMT -5
I haven't heard that demo. I think a lot of the time John and Paul would get going by saying 'let's do a Fats Domino song', or 'let's do an Everly Brothers song', and of course it would come out as their own thing just the same, so I can see John saying to himself I wonder if I could write a Delta Blues song. It strikes me as overly-earnest in a funny way, I guess that's a value judgement. He had some genuine reasons to sing the blues though what with his Mother and Uncle (married to the famous Aunt Mimi) dying when he was young, plus Stu Sutcliffe... so maybe it could also be a real howl from inside. Help was as much a cry for help type of statement, but he just didn't make fun of it later on ever that I know of. The Rutles did though with Ouch.
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