Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,144 
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Post by Confessor on Aug 4, 2024 17:34:03 GMT -5
Who started the Devil in a Red Dress thread, with a now deleted profile? Think that was mrp, who is now back as MRPs_Missives. |
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Post by kirby101 on Aug 4, 2024 17:48:36 GMT -5
Who started the Devil in a Red Dress thread, with a now deleted profile? Think that was mrp, who is now back as MRPs_Missives . Thanks, I thought we lost someone. |
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Post by Rob Allen on Aug 4, 2024 18:55:20 GMT -5
I love fresh spinach. That canned stuff is just disgustink though. As do I, but I avoid it like the plague due to its extremely high oxalate content-- which the primary component of 90% of kidney stones.
I've had my share of stones over the years, and raw spinach is one of those items (along with black tea) that I simply do not partake on a regular basis for this reason. I guess my metabolism must handle oxalate well. I've been drinking black tea almost all day almost every day for almost fifty years, and I've never had a kidney stone. I would teach your body how to do that if I could, but I think I just have to hope it continues this way. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 4, 2024 19:36:25 GMT -5
Although there's oxalic acid in tea, the correlation between black tea and kidney stones doesn't seem to be that convincing... This study study finds no correlation, and this one even reports a negative one. Perusing the litterature, I find papers going one way or the other, and even some reporting different effects depending on the amount of tea consumed (with, bizarrely, a low level correlating with more kidney stones, and a high level with fewer). As is often the case with nutrition, I suspect that the final result depends a lot on one's individual biology and life habits. Which are scientific weasel words for "who knows?" My own dad suffered from kidney stones when he started following Linus Pauling's recommendations about massive doses of vitamin C. He consumed orange-flavoured chewable vitamin C tablets, which contain sodium ascorbate instead of free ascorbic acid. His tale of agony when the stone came out always stuck in my mind (he had to stop his car on the highway and writhe in pain fir a while) but at least he didn't need surgery. When he later switched to ascorbic acid, he never got any problem. (One conversation we never had is that vitamin C isn't a panacea, and doesn't really help against the common cold. As long as one eats enough fresh fruit and veggies, one should be fine. No supplement required). I wish to God black tea isn't counter-indicated, because I drink a lot of it!!!  |
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 4, 2024 20:12:38 GMT -5
I have been drinking black tea all my life, but have had a kidney stone once. My urologist seemed to believe it was more due to not hydrating myself enough on a daily basis and drinking tea and soda instead of water, with the caffeine and diuretics. No idea about studies; but, it got me to drink more water, daily, along with anything else and I haven't had a problem in the 20 years since.
Some of it is definitely biology, as I worked with a woman who was prone to them, frequently, but her parents met at a urologist's office, while receiving treatment for.....kidney stones.
I had trouble passing mine and ended up undergoing lithotripsy, to break it up. It was still later, after the stent was removed, that I finally passed what remained. Wasn't particularly large, though it was sort of crescent shaped, which the doctor found odd.
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Post by tartanphantom on Aug 4, 2024 20:25:42 GMT -5
Although there's oxalic acid in tea, the correlation between black tea and kidney stones doesn't seem to be that convincing... This study study finds no correlation, and this one even reports a negative one. Perusing the litterature, I find papers going one way or the other, and even some reporting different effects depending on the amount of tea consumed (with, bizarrely, a low level correlating with more kidney stones, and a high level with fewer). As is often the case with nutrition, I suspect that the final result depends a lot on one's individual biology and life habits. Which are scientific weasel words for "who knows?" My own dad suffered from kidney stones when he started following Linus Pauling's recommendations about massive doses of vitamin C. He consumed orange-flavoured chewable vitamin C tablets, which contain sodium ascorbate instead of free ascorbic acid. His tale of agony when the stone came out always stuck in my mind (he had to stop his car on the highway and writhe in pain fir a while) but at least he didn't need surgery. When he later switched to ascorbic acid, he never got any problem. (One conversation we never had is that vitamin C isn't a panacea, and doesn't really help against the common cold. As long as one eats enough fresh fruit and veggies, one should be fine. No supplement required). I wish to God black tea isn't counter-indicated, because I drink a lot of it!!!
Regarding black tea, it's not necessarily the oxalate level by itself, but the rather high level of purines, which accelerate the binding and crystallization of calcium oxalate due to increasing uric acid levels. Lager beer is also high in purines, but doesn't usually contain oxalic acid.
Of course, the idiosyncrasies of individual body chemistry also come into play as well. What affects one individual may not affect others in the same manner-- even in the same hereditary line. Neither my father nor either of my two brothers have ever had them. All I can tell you is that, as a Southerner, I had drank iced tea my entire life. It's literally like water here in the south, and is a staple of just about any southern meal. I had my first stone around age 32. After my first stone analysis (my first one actually had to be extracted), the urologist asked my an extensive number of questions detailing my dietary intake profile. Based on the composition of my stones and my diet, he recommended knocking off the black tea completely, except for the rare glass here or there, as well as cutting out raw spinach altogether.
Regarding the citric/ascorbic acid, I am also a firm believer in it as a countermeasure to stone formation. I've been drinking a 2-3 of tablespoons of lime juice every day for around 20 years or so. In the first 10 years of kidney stone history prior to that, I would have one a year on average. After starting the lime juice regimen, I've averaged one stone every 5-7 years, and they are usually minimal in size, causing only minor temporary discomfort, somewhat akin to a lower back-ache. I also drink a lot of real lemonade-- no fake stuff, and lots of water as well, which both help tremendously.
One caution about citrus, though-- lime, lemon and orange juice are generally fine, but grapefruit juice is not, as it contains high levels of purines as well, and can actually promote stones. I don't see that as entirely unusual, though. Grapefruit is a weird citrus hybrid, and can cause adverse interactions and potential toxicity with several different medications. Apparently, it inherited these properties from its ancestor, the pomelo. I call it the "bastard citrus fruit".
I certainly hope you never have to deal with them as well.
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 4, 2024 21:28:57 GMT -5
I was also lucky that I didn't experience the levels of pain I heard from others. My first episode of pain felt like a muscle spasm in my back (which is what I thought was happening and standing under a hot shower for 30 minutes, massaging my back, coincided with the pain subsiding. I didn't give it another thought, until a day or two later I spent the whole night urinating every hour or less and never feeling like I was emptying my bladder. It continued into the day and I went to an urgent care, got checked for possible diabetes (negative) and then referred to a urologist. At first, I was diagnosed with an inflamed prostate and had to take big horse pills and stay out of the sun for a couple of weeks, while I took them. No kidney stones were diagnosed, at that time. After the regimen, I got hit with pain again, but it didn't subside and I drove myself to the emergency room, in the middle of the night. An MRI revealed a stone. I spent 6 months going to the urologist, for updates and still hadn't passed it and then the lithotripsy was ordered. Went through that, the 2-3 weeks with a stent, had it removed, then it was still a couple of months, give or take, before I finally passed the stone. I altered my diet and got more frequent exercise, shedding about 60 pounds in weight, as a result of the experience (that was before barb moved in with me, I got off my regimen, and put it all back on and then some, over the next 15 years). I haven't had any episodes since then and no one else in my immediate family has had them; so, we have ruled out genetics. In my case, it seemed to be dietary habits of the time, possibly coupled with the irritation of the prostate, which might have been a combo of not being hydrated enough and my liquids being tea and soda.
One of my colleagues had severe pain with them and I once collected him from a doctor's office and brought him back to the store, where he waited for his wife to pick him up. Another had a large stone that had to be broken up and the urologist kept for teaching purposes. The aforementioned female colleague got them routinely, though passed them quickly and it was hereditary, like I said, with her parents actually meeting at a urologist's office. A fine romantic tale for the ages. On the flip side, my brother has had to take medication for high blood pressure; but, I never have and despite periods of high carb diets, have never shown signs of diabetes or high cholesterol. I rarely get sick with colds and flu and have not contracted COVID in the last 4 years, despite Barb getting it and dying (though, I was masked and gowned, around her, in the hospital and was always masked when I visited her in the nursing home, where she contracted it, while recovering from a previous, unrelated hospital stay). As a kid, though, I had bronchitis at least 3 times and some breathing issues, as a small child. I had numerous colds and flus in childhood, but relatively little as an adult. Who knows why, beyond my body either adjusting or I am just anti-social enough and prefer distance enough that I don't come in contact with contagions.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Aug 5, 2024 2:31:08 GMT -5
(...) My own dad suffered from kidney stones when he started following Linus Pauling's recommendations about massive doses of vitamin C. He consumed orange-flavoured chewable vitamin C tablets, which contain sodium ascorbate instead of free ascorbic acid. His tale of agony when the stone came out always stuck in my mind (he had to stop his car on the highway and writhe in pain fir a while) but at least he didn't need surgery. When he later switched to ascorbic acid, he never got any problem. (One conversation we never had is that vitamin C isn't a panacea, and doesn't really help against the common cold. As long as one eats enough fresh fruit and veggies, one should be fine. No supplement required). I wish to God black tea isn't counter-indicated, because I drink a lot of it!!! Me, too - similarly to Rob Allen, I've been drinking it pretty much every day for the past roughly three decades with no apparent ill effects. And yeah, vitamin C is vital, but it's probably best to just get it from fresh produce. For example, my daily breakfast is usually just a plate of fresh fruit.
Otherwise, though: Linus Pauling - a brilliant scientist and activist (and fellow former Oregonian!) who deserved his Nobel prizes, but man, he really veered off in a real woo direction with his vitamin C advocacy.
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Post by driver1980 on Aug 5, 2024 7:06:23 GMT -5
Get rich quick schemes are still a thing, eh?
Years ago, I remember getting junk mail (from a PO Box number, naturally) telling me how I could earn £500 a week simply by working from home.
Well, I had some junk mail today. The usual ‘promises’ and sales words:
* Lucrative opportunity!
* Can be done from my kitchen, no special skills required
* Banks and governments don’t want you to know about this
* Can make cash for you 24/7
And so much more!
Naturally, there’s a significant price requested; if I pay by card or cheque, the secrets of this ‘lucrative opportunity’ will be made known to me. But hurry, it’s a time-limited offer only available to a certain number.
Do people fall for these?
I had a similar letter years ago, which sounded a lot like a pyramid scheme, which I thought was illegal.
If these ‘opportunities’ were legitimate, we could all do them. Why drive a cab or clean the streets when you can make tens of thousands a month from home?
I thought these kinds of mailings would have ceased in the digital age, but I suppose someone is still making money from these. Anyway, off to the recycling bin the letter goes…
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 5, 2024 8:58:29 GMT -5
(...) My own dad suffered from kidney stones when he started following Linus Pauling's recommendations about massive doses of vitamin C. He consumed orange-flavoured chewable vitamin C tablets, which contain sodium ascorbate instead of free ascorbic acid. His tale of agony when the stone came out always stuck in my mind (he had to stop his car on the highway and writhe in pain fir a while) but at least he didn't need surgery. When he later switched to ascorbic acid, he never got any problem. (One conversation we never had is that vitamin C isn't a panacea, and doesn't really help against the common cold. As long as one eats enough fresh fruit and veggies, one should be fine. No supplement required). I wish to God black tea isn't counter-indicated, because I drink a lot of it!!! Me, too - similarly to Rob Allen , I've been drinking it pretty much every day for the past roughly three decades with no apparent ill effects. And yeah, vitamin C is vital, but it's probably best to just get it from fresh produce. For example, my daily breakfast is usually just a plate of fresh fruit.
Otherwise, though: Linus Pauling - a brilliant scientist and activist (and fellow former Oregonian!) who deserved his Nobel prizes, but man, he really veered off in a real woo direction with his vitamin C advocacy.
Two Nobel prizes... That's a rare club he belongs to! I fully agree with you: a brilliant, brilliant man (who was still publishing into his '90s), Pauling seemed to wear blinders when it came to vitamin C. I don't know why. I mean, it is essential and relatively harmless even in large quantities, but Pauling really went overboard about it in his popular science books. Paul Montagnier (also a Nobel prize winner, for the discovery of the AIDS virus) is another brilliant man who went down a weird path (although in a much more severe way than Pauling, whose love for the Vitamin C as panacea model was pretty innocuous). Montagnier got swallowed by the memory of water nonsense, writing stuff about how infinitely diluted bacteria could send detectable and specific radio waves or about how DNA could be teleported by email. The gods of Olympus cried. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Aug 5, 2024 9:14:41 GMT -5
(...) My own dad suffered from kidney stones when he started following Linus Pauling's recommendations about massive doses of vitamin C. He consumed orange-flavoured chewable vitamin C tablets, which contain sodium ascorbate instead of free ascorbic acid. His tale of agony when the stone came out always stuck in my mind (he had to stop his car on the highway and writhe in pain fir a while) but at least he didn't need surgery. When he later switched to ascorbic acid, he never got any problem. (One conversation we never had is that vitamin C isn't a panacea, and doesn't really help against the common cold. As long as one eats enough fresh fruit and veggies, one should be fine. No supplement required). I wish to God black tea isn't counter-indicated, because I drink a lot of it!!! Me, too - similarly to Rob Allen , I've been drinking it pretty much every day for the past roughly three decades with no apparent ill effects. And yeah, vitamin C is vital, but it's probably best to just get it from fresh produce. For example, my daily breakfast is usually just a plate of fresh fruit.
Otherwise, though: Linus Pauling - a brilliant scientist and activist (and fellow former Oregonian!) who deserved his Nobel prizes, but man, he really veered off in a real woo direction with his vitamin C advocacy.
Just on a personal note, Linus Pauling is the great-grandfather of my middle son's girlfriend. Her grandfather was Caltech geologist Barclay Kamb. |
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Post by Batflunkie on Aug 5, 2024 9:22:49 GMT -5
Get rich quick schemes are still a thing, eh? Years ago, I remember getting junk mail (from a PO Box number, naturally) telling me how I could earn £500 a week simply by working from home. Well, I had some junk mail today. The usual ‘promises’ and sales words: * Lucrative opportunity! * Can be done from my kitchen, no special skills required * Banks and governments don’t want you to know about this * Can make cash for you 24/7 And so much more! Naturally, there’s a significant price requested; if I pay by card or cheque, the secrets of this ‘lucrative opportunity’ will be made known to me. But hurry, it’s a time-limited offer only available to a certain number. Do people fall for these? I had a similar letter years ago, which sounded a lot like a pyramid scheme, which I thought was illegal. If these ‘opportunities’ were legitimate, we could all do them. Why drive a cab or clean the streets when you can make tens of thousands a month from home? I thought these kinds of mailings would have ceased in the digital age, but I suppose someone is still making money from these. Anyway, off to the recycling bin the letter goes… Kind of reminds me when Bitcoin first came out. There were literal droves of people doing it, hoping to hit it big like some kind of modern day "gold rush" in the Yukon (and like gold mining, it's incredibly time consuming). Because so much processing power is required to even do it, a lot of gaming PC cards shot up in price. These days, I'd call it a stretch to say that people even do it much anymore. If they do, it's very limited and you don't hear much about it. Kind of like Pokemon Go |
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Post by tartanphantom on Aug 5, 2024 9:46:07 GMT -5
Get rich quick schemes are still a thing, eh? Years ago, I remember getting junk mail (from a PO Box number, naturally) telling me how I could earn £500 a week simply by working from home. Well, I had some junk mail today. The usual ‘promises’ and sales words: * Lucrative opportunity! * Can be done from my kitchen, no special skills required * Banks and governments don’t want you to know about this * Can make cash for you 24/7 And so much more! Naturally, there’s a significant price requested; if I pay by card or cheque, the secrets of this ‘lucrative opportunity’ will be made known to me. But hurry, it’s a time-limited offer only available to a certain number. Do people fall for these? I had a similar letter years ago, which sounded a lot like a pyramid scheme, which I thought was illegal. If these ‘opportunities’ were legitimate, we could all do them. Why drive a cab or clean the streets when you can make tens of thousands a month from home? I thought these kinds of mailings would have ceased in the digital age, but I suppose someone is still making money from these. Anyway, off to the recycling bin the letter goes… Kind of reminds me when Bitcoin first came out. There were literal droves of people doing it, hoping to hit it big like some kind of modern day "gold rush" in the Yukon (and like gold mining, it's incredibly time consuming). Because so much processing power is required to even do it, a lot of gaming PC cards shot up in price. These days, I'd call it a stretch to say that people even do it much anymore. If they do, it's very limited and you don't hear much about it. Kind of like Pokemon Go
I'll beg to disagree. The 2024 International Bitcoin Conference was just held in Nashville a week ago, with well over 20,000 in attendance.
While the focus specifically on the mining process has lessened and focus has shifted to establishing virtual currency as a true universal medium of exchange, the community itself is very much alive and well.
Not a miner myself, just sayin'. You just don't really hear about it in the news because it isn't "a new thing" any longer.
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 5, 2024 11:30:30 GMT -5
I have all of my money tied up in tulip bulb futures.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 5, 2024 11:40:01 GMT -5
I have all of my money tied up in tulip bulb futures. Hah!!! I put it all into NFTs! |
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