shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 31, 2019 14:31:05 GMT -5
Showcase #100 was never seriously intended to be in continuity, and is generally considered apocryphal, kinda like the Hembeck Fantastic Four Roast book (minus the awful puns). I personally find the story underwhelming and I've never liked Staton's art during this period. Cei-U! Think of it as a prehistoric Elseworlds! Yes, and I'm sure the reason Hawk and Dove were included a Titans was that they had premiered in Showcase and it was easier to shoehorn them into the Titans's scenes than have to create a separate "episode" for them. Damn good point!
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Post by beccabear67 on Jan 31, 2019 15:45:42 GMT -5
I thought Joe Staton fit the Teen Titans well, it might've been nice to have had a Staton Titans comic (although if there had been the New teen titans might never have happened). I did not care for his Plastic Man with Martin Pasko for some reason though you'd think he'd have fit it perfectly. The '70s E-Mans (all ten plus the Charlton Bullseye Magazine stories right after) are what I would call essential '70s comics to have. The later E-Man from First Comics I burned out on after three or four.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 31, 2019 18:24:14 GMT -5
I liked Staton, in this period. He brought a liveliness to DC that was sorely needed. Problem was, unless he was teamed up with someone like Paul levitz or Alan Brennert, then he was stuck trying to bring life to lesser scripts. Paul Kupperberg was, at best, an average writer, and his work in this area was pretty bland.
Levitz and Staton made a great pairing, as seen on the JSA (All-Star and Adventure Comics Dollar Comic run) and on the Huntress solo stories.
Like beccabear67 says, E-Man was pure classic ad I tend to agree about the First Comics run. Marty Pasko was a decent writer; but, he was rather heavy-handed with both Plastic Man and E-Man. He never quite grasped the light-hearted looniness that Ty Templeton and Cuti & staton lent to their work, which was more in keeping with Jack Cole.
Not much of a fan of Kupperberg's run on the revived Showcase, neither Power Girl nor New Doom Patrol. #100 was more of the same. As anniversary things go, it is okay; but, the story is too crowded to do much beyond make cameos.
Staton would have been a good fit for the Titans, provided he had better scripts than Rozakis had.
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 31, 2019 19:31:12 GMT -5
I thought Joe Staton fit the Teen Titans well, it might've been nice to have had a Staton Titans comic (although if there had been the New teen titans might never have happened). To each his/her own, but anything compared to what came before (Cardy) and what was to follow (Perez) and Staton's rough work was never going to give the Titans what was needed for a dynamic book about teen superheroes.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 1, 2019 7:09:47 GMT -5
As much as a "Flash Family' title sounds good in retrospect... if they wrote Wally like they did in the Flash back ups I read not that long ago, he probably never would have became a great character.. they're pretty vanilla.
Do they establish he's going to retire in that issue? Seems like that would be the time to mention it to his friends (The Titans)
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 1, 2019 8:40:18 GMT -5
As much as a "Flash Family' title sounds good in retrospect... if they wrote Wally like they did in the Flash back ups I read not that long ago, he probably never would have became a great character.. they're pretty vanilla. I haven't read those stories, but this one does a lot to humanize him. It's certainly more characterization and internal conflict than he earned in thirteen years with the Teen Titans up to this point. I did not get the impression he was planning on retiring at this point, especially as DC was testing the waters here for launching a series in which Kid Flash would have featured. In fact, he first reveals his dual identity to his parents in this issue, and they fully support him.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 8:57:59 GMT -5
I love Showcase #100--the splash page with all the characters. I remember wanting it when I was little because I spotted Hawk and Dove, Kid Flash, Robin, and Wonder Girl on the cover. I also remember being disappointed they didn't play a bigger role in the story but it was fun learning who all the other characters were. I remember reading and re-reading the pages with the Titans, ha!
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Post by chaykinstevens on Feb 1, 2019 16:47:51 GMT -5
So, are we then to assume the Titans didn't fully break-up? Speedy and some of the others quit, but Aqualad decided to come back, and Hawk and Dove have now joined too? Sure, I guess I can wrap my head around that. Except that it's all contradicted by the next two appearances the team makes. GCD says that a later letter column stated Showcase #100 was "just for fun", so non-canonical.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 1, 2019 23:35:56 GMT -5
Superman Family #190-194 (August 1978 thru April 1979) "The Quest for the Guardian" and other stories Script: Tom DeFalco Pencils: Kurt Schaffenberger, John Calnan Inks: Tex Blaisdell, Vince Colletta Colors: Mario Sen, Jerry Serpe Letters: Clem Robins, Jean Simek, Milt Snapinn Grade: n/a Another story that isn't primarily a Titans story (thus my not grading it), and yet it works hard to align itself with Rozakis' continuity. It begins with the Newsboy Legion showing up, looking for the Teen Titans in SF #190. And we learn in the next issue that DeFalco is quite logically connecting certain dots together: If Mal is now The Guardian, what happened to the previous Guardian? So he sees an opportunity both to bring the Newsboy Legion back to Jimmy Olsen and to resurrect the now discarded Teen Titans in the process, and man does he do his homework. We get to see Mal and Karen in the aftermath of the team disbanding: (and boy does DeFalco want us to care that the team has disbanded) but he also pays loving homage to the team that was, rekindling little details from the run: Incidentally, how cool to see two of DC's very first Bronze Age African American heroes standing in the same panel. It almost feels like DeFalco was trying to stir up fan demand for the series to be resumed, and yet he makes no daring effort to reunite the team by the close. The Legion meets Mal and Karen, followed by Speedy: and never gets further down the team roster than that. Robin is currently engaged in the events between Batman Family #19 and #20: Nice continuity, there!And Kid Flash, Wonder Girl, and Harlequin never even get mentioned. I guess this was just a testing of the waters before trying for some kind of grand reunion. Besides, Wonder Girl was about to appear in Adventure Comics, Harlequin was about to begin her own (soon aborted) solo feature, and DC may still have been holding out hope for Kid Flash to appear in a continuing Flash Family title. But it turns out that Roy Harper is the nephew of the original Guardian (both named Harper. Was this connection established prior to this storyline??), so the trail is able to end there. Important Details:- An editorial box in this stretch indicates that "Hornblower" was Mal's official codename while he had the Gabriel horn. This was never firmly established in the Rozakis run. It was mentioned once, and seemingly more as a nickname. - Speedy frees the previous Guardian, allowing him to return to active duty. So...what does that mean for Mal continuing with the Guardian identity? - Speedy indicates he is partially retired at this point. When he initiated the team's break-up in Teen Titans #53, it sounded more like he wanted to go solo than that he was planning to quit entirely: from Teen Titans #53In the end, while this is an important footnote in the story of Rozakis' Teen Titans, it isn't significant, in and of itself, beyond being proof that someone out there actually respected what Rozakis had done with the team and didn't want to see it end.
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Post by tarkintino on Feb 2, 2019 9:13:31 GMT -5
Superman Family #190-194 (August 1978 thru April 1979) "The Quest for the Guardian" and other stories Script: Tom DeFalco Pencils: Kurt Schaffenberger, John Calnan Inks: Tex Blaisdell, Vince Colletta Colors: Mario Sen, Jerry Serpe Letters: Clem Robins, Jean Simek, Milt Snapinn At DC in the Bronze Age, one should thank Len Wein for being the primary force in so thoroughly deep-diving into DC's past to create/join it with the current continuity--one that endless writers would emulate in the decades to come. In a hypothetical situation, if DeFalco ever brought it up with DC brass, the idea was likely shot down, as no one was going to revive a recently cancelled series next to no one was reading--at least not in the Rozakis model. Not a big deal at all, but I found it more interesting that the editor was up on his continuity in referencing Aqualad leaving the team, since that was--by the time of this issue's publication--so long in the concept's past that there was the expectation of readers to have stuck with the Teen Titans title all along. Yes, endless comics do that, but that expectation made more sense with popular titles such as Batman or The Amazing Spider-Man, not one which had struggled with readership through two incarnations like the Teen Titans. Kurt Schaffenberger's pencils were such an odd look for any of the Titans members. It just seemed...strange.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 2, 2019 9:35:30 GMT -5
but I found it more interesting that the editor was up on his continuity in referencing Aqualad leaving the team, since that was--by the time of this issue's publication--so long in the concept's past that there was the expectation of readers to have stuck with the Teen Titans title all along. That image was from Teen Titans #53. Aqualad had just quit again in the previous issue.
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Post by dbutler69 on Feb 2, 2019 10:41:01 GMT -5
Hey Shaxper, are you going to review The Brave and the Bold #149?
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 2, 2019 21:10:23 GMT -5
Hey Shaxper, are you going to review The Brave and the Bold #149? Yessir.
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Post by Chris on Feb 2, 2019 22:43:22 GMT -5
Ok, first off, sorry if the following comes off somewhat disjointed. It's been a very long weekend at work, and I'm having trouble pulling my thoughts together to combine a number of disparate elements into a single idea. Ok, more trouble than usual. Shut up in the back row there. So a couple pages back I said I was pondering a couple of things but wasn't going to mention them yet because I was waiting to see what "other appearances" by the Titans you would cover... Superman Family #190-194 (August 1978 thru April 1979) This was most definitely one of them. Not so much for the story itself, which was rather underwhelming (although seeing Kurt Schaffenberger drawing Jack Kirby stuff was kinda strange, in a fun way). But before I get into that, let me address a couple of points that were raised. It begins with the Newsboy Legion showing up, looking for the Teen Titans in SF #190. And we learn in the next issue that DeFalco is quite logically connecting certain dots together: If Mal is now The Guardian, what happened to the previous Guardian? So he sees an opportunity both to bring the Newsboy Legion back to Jimmy Olsen and to resurrect the now discarded Teen Titans in the process, and man does he do his homework.I found it more interesting that the editor was up on his continuityI don't know enough about DeFalco's work to know how continuity-minded or detail-oriented he was. And I can't say that the plot bringing back the Kirby characters wasn't his. But at least a fair amount of this seems like it was being managed by Superman Family editor E. Nelson Bridwell. Bridwell had been managing continuity between the features in Superman Family for some time, and immediately prior to these issues, he had put together a story that filled up an entire issue, crossing through all the features.* Would not be at all unlike him to want to tie up some loose ends, and be very meticulous about the details. Basically, no one was more up on his continuity than Bridwell. Dude was Encyclopedia Bridwellica. This right here, though... ...strikes me as a very Bridwellian type of thing. ENB was practically the Philip Jose Farmer of DC Comics. Seriously, read a couple of his text pieces in the early issues of Super Friends to see for yourself. And there was a reference to events in Batman Family... ... which also seems to me like a Bridwell thing. So what I'm pondering - and keep in mind this is all pure speculation - is that Teen Titans was written by Bob Rozakis, who often did work for the office of Julius Schwartz, including lettercolumns and some stories. And who was also writing the above-mentioned Robin feature in Batman Family. Also in that same office was Schwartz's assistant, E. Nelson Bridwell. Could ENB have been doing a favor for a co-worker, or maybe trying to give a proper wrap-up to a series he liked? Also, after the DC Implosion, it seems like many DC titles suddenly got very conservative in their storytelling. It might be that there were plans for continuing with some or all of these plot points, but management got nervous after the big crunch. Note that right after this issue, ENB was no longer Superman Family editor, and it was handed over to Julius Schwartz, who took a fairly standard approach to the book after that. Did he make changes due to concerns about sales? Or was it like, maybe, nuking a storyline that he had already zapped once before? Rozakis never indicates which identity Mal would return to, but his interviews explicitly state that the only reason he abandoned the Guardian persona was because of Julie Schwartz, and the fan letters clearly preferred the Guardian identity too. Then again, for all I know, DeFalco and ENB told their story and were finished with it on their own. No idea if I'm right or not. It's just that this entire thing seems kinda circular on the "real world" level. Hey Shaxper, are you going to review The Brave and the Bold #149? Aaaannnndddd that's the other thing I was pondering but wasn't gonna mention. * "The Museum of Eternity," Superman Family #190. It was a pretty cool concept. I also noticed on the title page to #190, the story was jointly credited to an idea by DeFalco and Bridwell. So maybe the Kirby stuff in SF was DeFalco's idea all along.
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Post by Chris on Feb 2, 2019 22:46:11 GMT -5
DC Special Series #11 (May 1978) I had no idea you would mention this book. It's awesome that you did. I would love to see you do a standalone review of it.
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