shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 22, 2019 8:46:27 GMT -5
Teen Titans #51 (November 1977)  "Titans East! Titans West! and Never (?) the Teens Shall Meet!" Script: Bob Rozakis Pencils: Don Heck Inks: Frank Chiaramonte Colors: Jerry Serpe Letters: Ben Oda Grade: B+ LOVE that cover! A full issue after the cover to #50 promised it, the two Teen Titans teams finally meet...on the last page:  That, and numerous distracting lettering errors by Ben Oda aside, this was actually a very strong issue. We begin with the first real portrait of Rozakis' team, all together in one place (and I really like it!):  And yet, this line-up is very much in doubt. Last issue, Rozakis suggested in the letters page that he'd be assembling one team from the two Teen Titans groups and cutting the dead-weight, and we certainly see signs of that here, as Kid Flash, Wonder Girl, and Aqualad are kept entirely out of the main action of the story:  only to have Donna ready to move to the West Coast by the issue's close (and Kid Flash possibly about to follow her there?):  as well as Rozakis washing his hands of Aqualad and his mysterious illness in one fell swoop:  Sure seems like we're cutting the dead weight, here (though I personally never would have considered either Donna or Wally to be dead weight!). And yet I'm not entirely sure Rozakis is entirely sure that's where he's going. With a new editor managing this book, it sure feels like Rozakis is trying to sell Titans West as its own spin-off book. Truly, he makes us care more about this team in one issue than he ever made us care about the original Titans:  Whereas he has gone out of his way to present the original team as dysfunctional, Titans West jibes immediately. It's the team energy I've been missing ever since Rozakis grabbed the reigns of this property. That being said, I have extremely mixed feelings about the last minute addition of Gnaark. On the one hand, I didn't expect it and felt a wave of excited nostalgia with his re-introduction (even though I have NEVER liked the character). On the other, Rozakis seems to have completely missed the point of the character, a caveman who was more civilized than we are:  from Teen Titans #39Who is now actually behaving like a caveman, thanks to Rozakis:  I suppose there is power to be found in this. Sometimes, the sensitive guy you fall for ends up being a controlling brute. But we never see the transformation, so it's hard to buy into. Probably the most note-worthy aspect of this issue though (beyond the meeting of Titans East and Titans West) is the newfound expansion of Lilith's powers. Once a practicing witch who could also see the future, Mike Friedrich gave Lilith's powers a demonic dark side that could come out unexpectedly in Batman #241-242, and now Rozakis has her as a full-blown telekinetic with powers strong enough to lift entire buildings and aircraft carriers:  Coincidence that another red-headed telekinetic was first beginning to discover the true extent of her powers a few months earlier over at Marvel?  I truly didn't expect the Titans' franchise's aping of the X-Men to begin here and with Lilith, but it's the entire focus of this now three-part storyline. Important Details:- Titans East and Titans West meet (though Titans West has still never been formally named) - Lilith now has powerful telekinetic abilities - First time Beast Boy discusses the Teen Titans since his fate with them was left hanging at the close of issue #6 eleven years earlier:  Instead of breaking the fourth wall again in 1977 and rudely blaming the readers for not supporting his inclusion, he puts the ownership on his legal guardian:  Minor Details:- Last issue, Titans West noted that Green Lantern is also active in the area. This issue, Rozakis gives us a small reminder of this by choosing the Ferris Building as the one that rises out of the ground and needs saving. Truly, this was a really good issue. Too bad Rozakis is going to find a way to screw it up. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 22, 2019 9:52:31 GMT -5
Regarding the Golden Eagle character, who first appeared in JLA 116 in a Cary Bates story. Back during the last issues of the Silver Age Hawkman comic, a couple of letters called for the addition of a teenaged sidekick for Hawkman. (One, IIRC, suggested the name Kid Hawk.) In the final solo issue of Hawkman, there was actually quite an outcry about it, with fans lining up vociferously on both sides of the idea.
Just wondering if Bates, like Wein, was reaching back into his fannish days to bring that idea to life as Charlie Parker, aka Golden Eagle. (I also wonder if Bates was a jazz fan.)
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 22, 2019 11:20:45 GMT -5
(I also wonder if Bates was a jazz fan.) I was wondering that too! And "Kid Hawk" is a way cooler name than "Golden Eagle". Dude could have used a mask that actually covered his face too. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 22, 2019 11:45:34 GMT -5
(I also wonder if Bates was a jazz fan.) I was wondering that too! And "Kid Hawk" is a way cooler name than "Golden Eagle". Dude could have used a mask that actually covered his face too.YES! Hated that look! |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 22, 2019 12:26:29 GMT -5
That's what I meant about Golden Eagle; I wasn't a fan of how the costume looked on him (mainly the headpiece). The Perez redesign looked better and gave him more of his own identity.
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Post by beccabear67 on Jan 22, 2019 13:52:33 GMT -5
After all this time that lone #50 I had makes some kind of sense now. Thank you shaxper! Great review and info!  |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 22, 2019 15:21:55 GMT -5
Teen Titans #52 (December 1977)  "When Titans Clash!" Script: Bob Rozakis Pencils: Don Heck Inks: Bob Smith Colors: Jerry Serpe Letters: Milton Snapinn; Clem Robins (pages 2-8) Grade: A- Egads, it's the final regular issue of the original Teen Titans. I know it's taken two and a half years getting here, but somehow it snuck up on me all the same, and I'm a bit sad to see it go, especially as this is another surprisingly well done Rozakis story that offers us so much hope for the future of the franchise.  Whereas previous writers struggled with featuring more than five Titans in a single story, Rozakis manages to utilize fifteen here. Sure, some go significantly under-used, but none are neglected entirely. Generally speaking, it works, and it gives Rozakis so many more options to pull from for good action, inter-personal drama, and semi-witty one-liners. He truly convinces me that he could have sustained this in future issues, or even earned a spin-off title. Who knows? But the DC Implosion was about to put an end to any of those possibilities. Is it a great story, objectively? No, but it isn't bad either. And judging it as a Rozakis story, it's practically poetry. The end solution to who the villain was and how he did what he did was actually pretty clever, even if Rozakis never bothers to explain how this guy was tapping into Lilith's powers in the first place. Meanwhile, everyone who looked like they were being shown the door last issue got a chance to shine in this one, especially Aqualad, who manages to save Long Island almost single-handedly. It's a solid story, and a truly fitting testament to all that a continuing Rozakis franchise might have been. Granted, he probably would have screwed it all up in another issue, but it sure didn't feel that way here. Important Details:- No One ever ever uses the name "Titans West" anywhere in this franchise. The story treats them as more potential members of the Teen Titans, and not their own branch. - Final regular continuity issue of the original Teen Titans volume. Minor Details:- Jerry Serpe wasn't paying too careful attention in this issue when he gave Lilith green hair and made Mal white. Oops. - Lilith, Golden Eagle, Beast Boy, Batgirl (Betty Kane), and Gnaark all appear to join the Teen Titans, and Hawk and Dove appear to rejoin, though no official pronouncement is ever made. - While this and the last issue were both paced well in their own rights, you can see Rozakis' struggle with pacing the larger plot points when you consider that this passing comment Robin made three months ago in Batman Family #13:  appears to have been referencing this moment in this issue:  ...not two issues earlier, as the editorial box promised. -  Even more interesting than where this little conflict might have gone is the question of what DC was going to do with TWO different heroes both calling themselves Batgirl. Clearly, that wasn't going to last, so would Betty Kane have assumed a new identity at some point? Truly excellent end to this series. Frankly, I'm surprised. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 15:33:59 GMT -5
Teen Titans #52 ... is one of my favorite issues and I felt it was a smash; great splash pages, great action, and the story is above average if I recall here. I know that the editorial wanted to change Betty Kane codename at one point that you've mentioned in the bottom page. I think it is a bunch of nonsense and there is room for two Batgirls in DC Comics at that time. I don't mind at all to see both Betty Kane and Barbara Gordon being both Batgirl for the sake of it.
I'm haven't made any comments on this thread for awhile but this is a fun topic to discuss and to be enjoyed.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 23, 2019 1:15:43 GMT -5
I don't think anyone other than Rozakis had any thoughts about using Betty Kane. I wouldn't be surprised if he pitched the idea of Babs becoming Batwoman and Betty as Batgirl, with Kathy Kane completely retiring (and dying).
Someone alert the ref; Robin is dropkicking below the belt and Gnark is punching right at it. Some heroes!
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 23, 2019 2:13:15 GMT -5
Teen Titans #51 (November 1977) "Titans East! Titans West! and Never (?) the Teens Shall Meet!" Script: Bob Rozakis Pencils: Don Heck Inks: Frank Chiaramonte Colors: Jerry Serpe Letters: Ben Oda In TwoMorrows Publishing's Titans Companion, Rozakis touched on his plans for the group: Yeah, he had the idea first, but his plans were simplistic, and his occasional coastal team-up idea just sounded like a retread of the annual JLA/JSA gatherings. Unless he had tsome insight about what California life would be for teenage superheroes, I suspect the title would have just moved into typical California stereotypes. Lilith's type of witch was so much a product of the late 1960's brand of horror. By the 70s, her type of "drama queen", wistful character had to be "upgraded" to the kind of ultra-powerful female characters that were on the rise, so gone is the worried-with-hand-to-the-cheek type of female which was largely the standard of the previous decade. Teen Titans #52 (December 1977) "When Titans Clash!" Script: Bob Rozakis Pencils: Don Heck Inks: Bob Smith Colors: Jerry Serpe Letters: Milton Snapinn; Clem Robins (pages 2-8) More from Titans Companion--regarding the cancellation: About The New Teen Titans: So, the mismanaged revival of The Teen Titans came down to this. There's much one can take from Rozakis' statements, such as the idea that his Titans were to behave like teenagers as opposed to the Wolfman/Perez version. This is part of his wrongheaded treatment of the characters, and it seems he never truly understood the maturation of the characters that was in effect since the late 60s; from the major move of Dick Grayson going to college--and out from the shadow of being a "Boy Wonder" (12/1969) to Speedy being a drug addict (9/1971), there was an effort to have the various characters make the transition to full-on adulthood to (somewhat) mirror a time in American history where young adults were dealing with serious, and in some cases, deadly situations. Its as if Rozakis believed they should still be the wisecracking, not-too-serious characters of their early Silver Age roots. Considering the period of the revival, and all that had happened with many Titans characters, his view of the title was already coming off like a cultural dinosaur. He seems a bit bitter about The New Teen Titans, and I suppose that's easy to understand, as it was and possibly remains the most revolutionary/successful revival in the medium's history, or at least in second place after DC's Golden Age-characters-become-new-versions which launched the Silver Age. If one reads the comic book industry magazines of the period, people from Marvel and just about every other company were well aware of the revival and its steady rise, and that was the case in-house, so I find Rozakis' statements to be rather bitter, which makes one peel back the layers to conclude he did not like the fact the comic-buying public essentially rejected his flaccid revival, yet embraced the next, making TNTT one of the great comic book phenomenons of the previous century. Part of the reason TNTT succeeded while the Rozakis revival did not was--again--not allowing that natural maturation of the characters. The late 70s/early 1980s comic reader, nay in-universe tone could not--and would not tolerate young adult characters that did not seem fully developed and as responsible for themselves--and the world they served--as their older counterparts in the JLA. The original Teen Titans' best efforts were found in the last few years of the original run that ended in 1973, where the title--troubled as it was by "too many cooks", still seemed like it was trying to go somewhere beyond its grinning, catchphrase-battered origins. That's something Rozakis should have considered (as a point of self-analysis as a creator) as he witnessed the introduction & rise of The New Teen Titans. |
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Post by zaku on Jan 23, 2019 4:07:03 GMT -5
There's much one can take from Rozakis' statements, such as the idea that his Titans were to behave like teenagers as opposed to the Wolfman/Perez version. These people spent their teen years fighting criminals and murderers. And hardly any of them had a "normal" adolescence (I mean, a lot of the original Titans were orphan who had a very peculiar growing up, right?). How the heck could the behave like your typical "teenagers"? |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 23, 2019 5:23:05 GMT -5
In TwoMorrows Publishing's Titans Companion, Rozakis touched on his plans for the group: You steal my thunder, good sir. I have examined and taken detailed notes on multiple Rozakis interviews in regard to all of this that I was planning to get to after reviewing the next issue. That being said, I try not to take a careless writer's claims of what he was going to do 30 years after the fact as total gospel. Rozakis was almost certainly wavering on whether he was selling us two teams or just a new set of characters, and if sales were falling off as he said they were, I'm sure no one had greenlit a spin-off title yet. |
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Post by zaku on Jan 23, 2019 7:19:13 GMT -5
So, a quick recap of the original Teen Titans: - Robin: orphaned at young age, became the Batman's protégé in his fight against crime
- Aqualad: abandoned by his parents ad young age, became the Aquaman's protégé in his fight against crime
- Speedy: orphaned at young age, raised by Native Americans, became the Green Arrow's protégé in his fight against crime
- Kid Flash: virtually abandoned by his parents ad young age, became the Flash's protégé in his fight against crime
- Wonder Girl: orphaned at young age, raised by Amazon and, well, she didn't really fight crime with Wonder Woman..
so, my conclusions: 1) The Teen Titans isn't a superhero group, is a support group for traumatized orphaned/abandoned teens 2) Where the the heck are the social services in the Dc Universe..? |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 23, 2019 7:55:34 GMT -5
So, a quick recap of the original Teen Titans: - Robin: orphaned at young age, became the Batman's protégé in his fight against crime
- Aqualad: abandoned by his parents ad young age, became the Aquaman's protégé in his fight against crime
- Speedy: orphaned at young age, raised by Native Americans, became the Green Arrow's protégé in his fight against crime
- Kid Flash: virtually abandoned by his parents ad young age, became the Flash's protégé in his fight against crime
- Wonder Girl: orphaned at young age, raised by Amazon and, well, she didn't really fight crime with Wonder Woman..
so, my conclusions: 1) The Teen Titans isn't a superhero group, is a support group for traumatized orphaned/abandoned teens 2) Where the the heck are the social services in the Dc Universe..? Don't forget that Lilith is an orphan too. And what the heck ever happened to Mal's kid sister? |
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Post by zaku on Jan 23, 2019 8:05:07 GMT -5
So, a quick recap of the original Teen Titans: - Robin: orphaned at young age, became the Batman's protégé in his fight against crime
- Aqualad: abandoned by his parents ad young age, became the Aquaman's protégé in his fight against crime
- Speedy: orphaned at young age, raised by Native Americans, became the Green Arrow's protégé in his fight against crime
- Kid Flash: virtually abandoned by his parents ad young age, became the Flash's protégé in his fight against crime
- Wonder Girl: orphaned at young age, raised by Amazon and, well, she didn't really fight crime with Wonder Woman..
so, my conclusions: 1) The Teen Titans isn't a superhero group, is a support group for traumatized orphaned/abandoned teens 2) Where the the heck are the social services in the Dc Universe..? Don't forget that Lilith is an orphan too. You are right! Joking aside, the orphaned sidekick is a so common trope because no sane parent would let his/her kid do this life... |
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