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Post by tarkintino on Nov 9, 2018 3:08:29 GMT -5
Brave and the Bold #102 (July 1972) "The Commune of Defiance" Script: Bob Haney Pencils: Jim Aparo (pages 1-13); Neal Adams (pages 14-21); Dick Giordano (page 22) Inks: Jim Aparo (pages 1-13); Dick Giordano (pages 14-22) Colors: ? Letters: Jim Aparo; John Costanza My problem with the story is not just that Titans were there for the title format needing someone to team up with Batman, but Haney's idea on youth empowerment were so out of touch with the way so many activist teenagers had become by 1972. He has most of the characters behave in that mid 60s "We're gonna change things...YEAH!" manner out of touch adults scripted for TV series of that period. If Haney took a look at certain areas of Oakland, Detroit, Brooklyn or San Francisco of the early 70's he would see a far more radicalized teenager in behavior & philosophy, whether they lifted a finger take action or not. Heat--real heat was in the air, and influencing behavior, but its not to be found here. This seems more like a plot from Dragnet 1967 than anything feeling like the youth issues of 1972. Then again, strife on the streets of America was never going to be presented with any consistency across DC titles; if that happened, perhaps the far more realistic portrayal of urban corruption/struggle from Green Lantern (with Green Arrow) would have played like a continuing theme into this title, painting a world with problems that never go away in 30 pages.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 9, 2018 6:25:19 GMT -5
And in the real world, kids wouldn't have super powers, nor would they be led by someone whose only powers were acrobatic training and a good brain. DC Comics of the time period that weren't Green Lantern/Green Arrow were selling fantasies, and this was a beautiful one.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2018 8:55:19 GMT -5
I love Brave and Bold 102. I got it in a box of TT back issues for Christmas one year when I was probably 12 or 13. Totally agree about Batman strolling in broad daylight taking spring in. I guess even the Batman can appreciate a spring day, haha! Loved seeing Angel's transformation and of course, Batman calling in the Titans to empower the teens trying to save their neighborhood. Great art and story. Haney really got this one right. I would have liked to have seen Mal have a bigger role as he came from a similar background. Spectacular art as well from 3 legends. Looking forward to your review of B&B 149 down the road when the TT appear again with Batman.
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Post by MDG on Nov 9, 2018 9:21:57 GMT -5
Did Batman just say "Delicious"? You owe it to America to turn this into a meme.
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Post by tarkintino on Nov 9, 2018 15:37:59 GMT -5
And in the real world, kids wouldn't have super powers, nor would they be led by someone whose only powers were acrobatic training and a good brain. DC Comics of the time period that weren't Green Lantern/Green Arrow were selling fantasies, and this was a beautiful one. To each his own, but DC's hit and miss output was one of the reasons the publisher often ended up on the losing end of comparisons with Marvel at the time. While DC had made great progress with then-daring (killing off the Doom Patrol in their final issue) or innovative stories such as that seen in Batman, House of Secrets, Green Lantern and other titles, and the oft-noted maturing of teen characters like Speedy and Robin, they still published stories that some readers found silly or lacking compared to Marvel's usual suspect titles of the period. To me, that's where this BATB stories suffers, hence the Dragnet 1967 reference; by the early 70s, youth movements in North America had been serious for some time and dealt the kind of business that (for one example) had government watching/infiltrating/attempting to disrupt (in the worst possible way)--even if the aim of the group was--on paper--non-violent. The kids in BATB issue just seem like throwbacks to a period as defined by TV rather than the streets, and for the early 70s, that had to be glaring for readers (aside from myself) living in that world, or finding more of a mirror in stories coming from "across the street."
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 11, 2018 9:30:02 GMT -5
Teen Titans #40 (August 1972) "The Spawn of the Sinister Sea" Script: Bob Haney Pencils: Art Saaf Inks: Nick Cardy Colors: ? Letters: Ben Oda grade: A- It's the kind of horror story we've been waiting for Haney to tell again. Just as with Teen Titans #34, we begin in the middle of the story, with a moody locale and atmospheric narration: ( never mind the fact that they already met the real Loch Ness monster back in Teen Titans #17, also a Bob Haney story) and we go on to get images and ideas like these: Apparently, there's a Scottish folktale even more terrifying than the Loch Ness monster that Haney either found or invented -- in which an island of drowned Satan worshippers rises from the lake once every hundred years -- and Haney tells it well here. The action is also top-notch. Newcomer to the Titans, Art Saaf creates some truly visually intense moments in this issue, my favorite being Speedy's improvised trick for catching up with a boat they are pursuing that leaves it turning in a perpetual circle: Nice stuff, there! Important Details:- Aqualad reunites with the Titans, initially as their nemesis while enchanted. - Where's Lilith? She wasn't in last month's Brave and the Bold story either. It sure seemed like Haney was giving her extra attention in recent issues (especially with her own backup story), and now she's gone without even being mentioned? While inter-title continuity is nearly unheard of at this point, perhaps she is taking a leave of absence after the dramatic conclusion to her back-up story in Batman #241-242: But this is certainly never explained here. - While Mr. Jupiter manages to avoid being jerk in this issue (though, now that I think about it, the target of his bad behavior was always Lilith...), Haney manages once again to make him come off as a liked but bumbling father figure who pays the airfare and then get the hell out of the way, rather than any kind of contributing member to the team; certainly not someone who commands authority nor seems particularly formidable: Minor Details:- I'm starting to think that last issue was originally intended to be Teen Titans #34. So George Tusca leaves the title, and while Murray Boltinoff is scrambling to get a new artist on the title, they run this abandoned story that would have seen the title giving greater attention to Gnarrk instead of veering into the horror genre as a last ditch effort to boost sales. #34 truly feels like where Haney wanted to go with the series once he regained control of it -- continuing to explore his new character, utterly annihilating the likability of Mr. Jupiter, and generally keeping things Haney status quo -- instead of taking an abrupt turn into the zeitgeist horror genre that definitely feels more like something Infantino was pushing (especially with his cover designs, months before we even got an actual horror story in this title). - As noted previously, the Titans already met the true Loch Ness monster and yet spend the first page of this issue speculating on whether or not it actually exists. - Why would either the Titans or Mr. Jupiter feel that proving the Loch Ness monster's existence was a worthy use of their time/resources? That's not exactly what they do. Plot synopsis: The Titans are at Loch Ness, attempting to prove the existence of the Loch Ness monster (though it turns out to be a fake), but they run into a larger problem when they discover the truth of a legend in which an island of Satan worshippers rises from the loch once every hundred years to claim innocent teenagers as their new unnatural minions. Aqualad is thus ensnared, and the Titans scramble to rescue him and flee the island before it sinks again.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 10:30:57 GMT -5
Titans #40 is a very good story and I wished that Mr. Jupiter was written like this all the time; and the appearance of Nirka surprises me and made the story better and that's a good thing and Haney did it with good measures. Your Minor Details really nails the whole story and I totally understand your thinking and that's the beauty of Haney's script work. It's kind of bothers me why in the world they are trying to prove Loch Ness's existence and yet the Titans already seen the Loch Ness Monster in Titans #17 and that bothered me a great deal and lack of memory of the Titans team?
That alone baffled me when I read Titan #40 and I remembered this story vividly in my mind back in 1972 when I was borrowing my friend book for a change. My question to you Shax is why the Titans forget about their adventure in Titans #17? ... I'm quite curious of your response here.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 11, 2018 10:37:14 GMT -5
That alone baffled me when I read Titan #40 and I remembered this story vividly in my mind back in 1972 when I was borrowing my friend book for a change. My question to you Shax is why the Titans forget about their adventure in Titans #17? ... I'm quite curious of your response here. Carelessness. TT #17 was a story from four years earlier, and while I do think Haney cared about these characters more than most people give him credit for, I don't see a lot of evidence that he cared much about the individual stories. This quote from him doesn't help: "Of course, well, comics, they’re just the lowest form of popular culture. What the Germans called kitsch. Nowadays, of course, they’re art. And they are much better; they’re much more — great creativity and serious talent. But in those days, they were [...] kid’s junk. Kid’s poison. Adults have their junk. Whether it’s booze or sex or whatever. Kids needed junk. And the junk was comics for years. That’s why it sought the level that it did."* * Catron, Michael. "The Comics Journal." Bob Haney Interviewed by Michael Catron Part Four (of Five) «. The Comics Journal, 10 Jan. 2011. Web. 21 July 2016.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 10:51:03 GMT -5
Understood, Loud and Clear ... thanks for this post ^^^^ above Shax.
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Post by shaxper on Nov 12, 2018 5:20:24 GMT -5
Teen Titans #41 (October 1972) "What Lies in Litchburg Graveyard" Script: Bob Haney Pencils: Art Saaf Inks: Nick Cardy: Colors: ? Letters: Jean Izzo grade: A One of my favorite Titans covers and stories of all time, and yet I'm not fully buying the creator credits. That cover feels extremely Neal Adams, who so often has his covers slowly tell stories through three distinct areas of focus that your eyes naturally move to in a specific order: Primary focus: What's startled our heroes? Secondary focus: Who's that pursuing them? Tertiary focus: What in the world are they burying?? I've never seen Nick Cardy (the credited artist) attempt something like this before, even with two areas of focus. I'll concede the style of the figures looks Cardy-ish enough, but it might be that Adams was in that session with Infantino and Cardy when they hashed out this cover design. I bring this up because we've seen Adams step in to assist on the Titans a number of times already and, more importantly, because I can't accept the idea that Haney wrote the story within. For one thing, Mr. Jupiter's depiction is vastly different in this story. One typically thoughtless, tone-deaf comment aside: we learn that Jupiter is not exactly the white establishment he might appear to be, having been raised by an escaped slave. We also see him move through this issue with competence for once, as well as meaningfully contribute to the advancement of the plot: NONE of this is typical in a Haney script. Secondly, we have to talk about the very scope of this issue. When Bob Kanigher introduced Mal, his race was played up meaningfully. Successor Steve Skeates was likely fired from the Teen Titans for a script that took Mal's race to a whole other level. But (or perhaps because of this) Haney has avoided emphasizing Mal's race like the plague, often relegating Mal himself to the background of each story. So to be getting a story in which Mal is forced to relive the experiences of an escaped slave, in which race is emphasized on nearly every page with shocking bluntness that feels straight out of Green Lantern/Green Arrow, I get the feeling its Neal Adams ghost assisting. One might recall the last time Adams stepped in to handle a Titans story dealing with race. At the time, DC editorial wasn't ready for such a topic, but Adams has claimed a discussion started then between him and the powers that be which resulted, two years later, in the creation of John Stewart, DC's first black costumed superhero. Well that story was published nine months ago. The powers that be were now clearly more receptive to depicting race and race relations on the comic book page, at least when Adams was schmoozing them. Seems far more likely he's here, pushing the envelope again, than Haney (who has played it super safe with Mal all along) is suddenly trying to push the racial edge here. ANYWAY, it's a damn amazing story, full of the rich and moody tone that made classics out of "The Demon of Dog Island" (#34), and "The Spawn of the Sinister Sea" (just last issue), only now it's advancing a bold focus on race as well, making this story thoroughly unforgettable. Sure, there's a lot about this story that doesn't ultimately add up at all, as one might expect of most ghost stories (especially when the Titans are now experiencing them every two months!), but that doesn't take much away from the final impact of this amazing work. Important Details:- Okay, so this is now the third story without Lilith in it. What gives? And why is Kid Flash absent too? We'd speculated previously that Speedy's long absence was due to his drug problem in the pages of Green Lantern / Green Arrow, but he's back now, and I'm starting to wonder if the issue is just that Haney (and maybe Adams here?) doesn't like having to write too many characters at one time. The Titans are now seven members (including Mr. Jupiter), whereas they used to be four. I suppose that's a lot of characters to keep track of in a script, so we seem to constantly have one to two members absent. And leaving Lilith out is a logical choice, as her precognitive powers could easily ruin a story if she knows the solution to a ghostly mystery right from the start. Plot synopsis: Mr. Jupiter brings the Titans to his childhood home in Litchburg to visit his dying Aunt Hattie, who turns out to be an escaped slave that raised him after his parents died. She gives Mal a voodoo doll just before she dies, warning that he will need it. The ghost of a slave owner and his dogs then begins showing up, pursuing Mal and believing it is Hattie's father. Initially not believing him, the Titans soon see the truth and assist, getting the voodoo doll in time for it to grow ten feet tall and take out the slave owner ghost once and for all."Her Brother's Keeper" Script: Bob Haney Pencils: Bob Brown Inks: Dave Cockrum Colors: ? Letters: Ray Holloway grade: C- Man, have I been waiting for another "Young Lilith" story, but this one really doesn't live up to its predecessors. Lilith meets a wandering, telepathic boy with amnesia who sure seems like he might be her brother, except that he isn't, and her means of unlocking the truth about his past is the most lazy mess of b.s. I think I've ever seen from Haney: THAT's the solution to this story? And Bob Brown's art really doesn't help. Compare young Lilith's face in the panel above to how Cardy was drawing her in previous installments: Brown only comes close to this kind of visual pathos once, in this single panel: It's a worthy attempt, but then Lilith looks like a baby-doll in every panel that follows. Plot synopsis: Lilith thinks she finds a long lost telepathic brother, but the telepathy was just caused by blunt trauma and is soon removed with another head injury. Lilith then probes his past by making him believe she has died, revealing that he is not her brother, but also showing her how to return him to his family, which is now understanding and ready to accept him.
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Post by Cei-U! on Nov 12, 2018 8:45:30 GMT -5
The only problem with your theory about Neal Adams' involvement in TT #41 is that Adams himself has never claimed an iota of credit for it in the intervening 46 years, and if you've read any of his interviews you know he doesn't hesitate to claim credit for even his smallest contributions. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I'm skeptical. As for the unevenness of Haney's work, I think it has everything to do with his freelance work outside DC: when he had no better-paying gig on tap, he took more time with plotting and structuring his comics work; when he did, he didn't.
Cei-U! I summon my two cents' worth!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 9:08:09 GMT -5
#41, was a little bit of a letdown with the backup story -- "Her Brother's Keeper" of which I had a hard time enjoying it; but the main story was extremely good and down in a way that you don't expect it; my memory of this story is not as vivid as #40 and this story is a step below and not as good. I only read this story back then and only twice and that's how bad it was as far as my memory concerns. I only can remember both Mr. Jupiter and Lilith only -- the rest of Titans hardly.
Mr. Jupiter is okay in this story and invited the Titans to his childhood home in Litchburg as you stated and the voodoo and other weird things are happening that I just find it kinda odd for this book.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 14, 2018 19:50:06 GMT -5
Teen Titans #42 (December 1972) "Slaves of the Emperor Bug" Script: Bob Haney Pencils: Art Saaf Inks: Nick Cardy Colors: ? Letters: Milton Snapinn grade: C+ Two historically important details about this cover: 1. It is Mal's first cover appearance in the title (and his second cover appearance anywhere). Note that his skin color is obscured by the angle and inking. 2. This was my first ever introduction to the Teen Titans, discovering it in the back issue bins of my LCS at the age of nine. I was thrilled, but then quickly lost interest when trying to read the outdated content within. And, speaking of the outdated content within, this is the absolute most Haneyish issue we've seen since his original run on the title, ending with issue #17. Not only is the plot so nonsensical that Haney literally skips over the end of the story, telling us "How the Titans found their way back out of the great swamp and the amazing adventures they had doing so we shall skip here! That's another story," but the old "hip" slang Haney used to be known for is suddenly saturating the Titans' dialogue again. Even Lilith is talking like a mod now: Seemingly to compliment this throwback aim at a younger demographic, Saaf's art and Cardy's inks really tone down the darkness and horror aspects of this outing. The elements are still there in the plot, but never on the page. This is the most menacing the visuals ever get in this issue: It's like they're trying NOT to be scary, especially with all the gorgeous atmospheric gothy moodiness the two have cultivated in previous issues. Another huge change this issue is characterization. Whereas personality has never been a strong point of this title, suddenly interpersonal relationships are taking the center stage. First off, there appears to be a renewed romantic tension between Wonder Girl and Speedy for the first time in four years: But the majority of the character-building taking place in this issue seems to come from conflict. Just look at how the team is treating Wonder Girl and Lilith at the beginning of this story: Where the hell did that come from? But Robin takes it five steps further when he lays into Donna, late in the mission: Note that none of this hostility ever gets resolved by the close, either. Haney just sort of...forgets about it. Is Haney trying to make us dislike Robin? Back during his original run, we saw evidence for a while that Haney was trying to get rid of Robin, even asking the readers their opinions on the letters page. Now he's asking again, exactly when Robin starts exhibiting this behavior that seems to come from nowhere. Come to think of it, isn't this EXACTLY what Haney was doing with Mr. Jupiter by having him repeatedly lash out at Lilith? I've already laid out my argument for why Haney would want Mr. Jupiter gone. And speaking of Mr. Jupiter, Haney appears to have finally gotten his way with that. Mr. Jupiter is completely absent from this issue, mentioned and utilized merely as a resource for the Titans that allows them to continue their wild, globe-trotting adventures: I don't recall him being in the next/final issue, either. Though, admittedly, it's been a while since I read it. Anyway, with neither Saaf/Cardy's moody visuals nor a coherent plot that provides us with an earned climax and resolution, this is a pretty weak outing, even with the supernatural elements in place. I do respect Haney's attempts to lend greater characterization and conflict to the team though, even if I don't buy Robin's savageness. Minor Details:- The letter column has two fans calling for Beast Boy to finally join the team after having last appeared in issue #6. How the heck were fans even reading a back issue from six years earlier? Was Haney submitting these letters himself?? Maybe one of those letter writers was Marv Wolfman, who will be adding Beast Boy to the line-up when he finally resumes control of the team a decade from now. Plot synopsis: Donna receives a gold beetle necklace from a kindly old man after failing to win it at an auction. The beetle comes to life and tells her she must help it break the curse that turned it from a brave warrior into a necklace. The team is very hostile about going but ultimately agrees when the beetle speaks to them. After a hard trip on a jungle river, in which Kid Flash gets his leg injured and Wonder Girl gets poisoned by a snake, they arrive at the secret cave of the warrior/necklace. It turns out that it really was a giant beetle before being cursed and that the kindly old man from the beginning of the story is its servant, and it intends to marry Donna. A non-sensical struggle ensues in which the beetle's nemesis somehow returns from the dead and blows them both up, the Titans arriving safely home somehow. Really...you aren't missing much.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 10:06:00 GMT -5
The cover for #42 is one of my all time favorites. Also liked how WG had a major role in the story. Also as the series progresses, I notice how her costume has some subtle changes. For the most part, the necklace and bracelets are gone. The star pattern has changed from black and white to all white. I thought her costume was prettiest like this, with the white stars that wrap around. Perez's version of the costume was just kind of blah to me...not his fault as in the the late 70s, the artists pretty much seemed to draw the stars with no consistency at all and would just place a random star here and there.
I took Robin's anger as he and the other boys didn't believe WG's and Lilith's story to begin with and now that Kid Flash was hurt, he'd had enough? Also like how WG and Speedy seem to be back on.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 10:16:31 GMT -5
I agree with @mrjupiter ... on two points here, the Cover and his thoughts on Wonder Girl new Costume ... It's more Modern at the time, and it's made her more unique from Wonder Woman, and sad to say this ... I haven't read Teen Titans #42 yet. Shocking, but true.
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