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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 28, 2018 7:15:57 GMT -5
You're assuming a level of cooperation and coordination between editorial fiefdoms that simply didn't exist at DC during this period. While the company's lines did feature more crossovers between characters handled by different editors by the early '70s, there was no overarching authority overseeing such matters or of keeping continuity consistent. E. Nelson Bridwell at least tried, but was usually told to sit down and shut up for his trouble. Context is everything when trying to infer the whys and wherefores behind any comic.
Cei-U! I summon the reality check!
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 28, 2018 9:02:03 GMT -5
You're assuming a level of cooperation and coordination between editorial fiefdoms that simply didn't exist at DC during this period. While the company's lines did feature more crossovers between characters handled by different editors by the early '70s, there was no overarching authority overseeing such matters or of keeping continuity consistent. E. Nelson Bridwell at least tried, but was usually told to sit down and shut up for his trouble. Context is everything when trying to infer the whys and wherefores behind any comic. Cei-U! I summon the reality check! I guess I just find the story's attempts to merge fluidly with the events of Teen Titans #28 as an open invitation to look for consistency. Should I expect more from DC at this point? Probably not. Am I fascinated by the inconsistencies anyway? Absolutely.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jul 28, 2018 11:44:41 GMT -5
You're assuming a level of cooperation and coordination between editorial fiefdoms that simply didn't exist at DC during this period. While the company's lines did feature more crossovers between characters handled by different editors by the early '70s, there was no overarching authority overseeing such matters or of keeping continuity consistent. E. Nelson Bridwell at least tried, but was usually told to sit down and shut up for his trouble. Context is everything when trying to infer the whys and wherefores behind any comic. Cei-U! I summon the reality check! I guess I just find the story's attempts to merge fluidly with the events of Teen Titans #28 as an open invitation to look for consistency. Should I expect more from DC at this point? Probably not. Am I fascinated by the inconsistencies anyway? Absolutely. A wild guess: Skeates and Friedrich were the writers on TT and at least that one Robin story. Both new breed-types who might have tried to make the continuity work on their own. No editor would probably have even noticed. And Giordano, editing TT at the time, would probably have liked it.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 28, 2018 11:52:36 GMT -5
I guess I just find the story's attempts to merge fluidly with the events of Teen Titans #28 as an open invitation to look for consistency. Should I expect more from DC at this point? Probably not. Am I fascinated by the inconsistencies anyway? Absolutely. A wild guess: Skeates and Friedrich were the writers on TT and at least that one Robin story. Both new breed-types who might have tried to make the continuity work on their own. No editor would probably have even noticed. And Giordano, editing TT at the time, would probably have liked it. That sounds extremely probable to me, kinda like how Friedrich and Roy Thomas timed the debuts of Avengers analogs The Heroes of Angkor in Justice League of America and JLA analogs The Squadron Sinister in The Avengers to coincide without their bosses' knowledge.
Cei-U! By Jove, I think he's got it!
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 31, 2018 16:21:47 GMT -5
Teen Titans #30 (December 1970) I've often been fascinated by the fact that, though I have read this entire run before, I have absolutely no memory of these Steve Skeates issues. I remember Bob Kanigher shaking up the premise in #25 thru #27, and I remember Haney's return to the title that culminated the series, but these few issues in between -- I remember nothing. And now I can see why. This issue is jam-packed full of nothing. An unheard of FOUR features in this single-length book, and not a single one of them does anything worth remembering. It was already obvious there was uncertainty over the future direction of the Teen Titans, but this issue is so all-over-the-place that it's almost funny. Worth Noting: In the letters page, it is suggested that Neal Adams either decides or consults on the overall direction of the title. And yet Dick Giordano is still credited as editor. "Greed... Kills!" Script: Steve Skeates Pencils: Nick Cardy Inks: Nick Cardy Colors: ? Letters: John Costanza grade: D+ If Teen Titans #28 was an abrupt about-face from the new direction in which Kanigher was taking the title, this story is an abrupt about-face from that first abrupt about-face, with the Titans back in their drab Secret Six outfits (never once appearing in costume), and actually taking on a second ever assignment from Mr. Jupiter. And yet, rather than give them some thrilling assignment that will spur immediate change in the world, or even set an example to others with such high profile heroes involved, their task is to ask for handouts for charity. Oh, it all ends up making sense. The guy is a never-been-caught crook who doesn't believe in helping ex-cons, but the really weird part is that the Titans never question their mission to "...not come back until we got a donation from Mr. Tout!" Mr. Jupiter is unspeakably wealthy, and this seems like a frivolous use of their talents. Heck, there's no big realization at the end that there was method to Mr. Jupiter's mission. The Titans never question and never think after. They simply obey, and justice is delivered through them unknowingly. In an age in which kids were questioning authority more than ever, this shadowy figure with no real background who throws money and teenagers at problems from a safe distance, brainwashes said teenagers with instructions and knowledge in their sleep, and then sends them on missions like this without ever being questioned...it's really disturbing, and not intentionally so. Why weren't Alan Moore and Grant Morrison deconstructing THIS comic book character in the '80s and '90s? Aside from the unintentional, the only two memorable aspects of this story were its progressive messages about African Americans and women Oh, and the Titans never did get that donation. Worth noting: In the previous issue, it was first indicated that Hawk and Dove were not staying on with the Titans permanently (even though they also took part in the big vow in issue #25). Now they have presumably gone back home, as they do not appear in this issue. "Whirlwind"(2 page text story) Script: Steve Skeates Pencils: ? Inks: Rich Buckler? Colors: ? Letters: typeset grade: F Skeates clearly spent two minutes on this filler content, and it shows. Who thought it was a good idea to reintroduce text stories to comic books in late 1970? "Some Call it Noise" Script: Steve Skeates Pencils: Carmine Infantino Inks: Nick Cardy Colors:? Letters: Ben Oda grade: D- The letter column prints a letter requesting solo Teen Titans adventures, and the go-to choice for this first outing is Aqualad? I can't decide whether they're still trying to push Aqualad on us, or if it's just because he's the only available costumed Titan at this point (Robin is off-limits while they're still pushing him as a solo feature in Detective Comics). Here's another instance in which a strong disparity exists between what the cover is selling and Skeates is delivering. This is no hunchback, and he never abducts anyone. It's a weird escaped mutant who does little more than run through a crowd and pick up one person before immediately being taken down by Aqualad. Instead, the drama of the story (if you can even call it that) is in Aqualad and Aquagirl struggling to get back to the water before their hour runs out. But it's reflective of the title once more being indecisively caught between trends. Are they going to market this book to older teens who want to read about real-world issues, or are they going to market it to older teens who love horror? Eventually, they'll move towards the latter (I LOVE those stories), but for now, we're caught between competing forces, and Skeates is just treading water, rolling with the editorial waves that keep rocking this book. Minor details: Aquagirl gets a name (Tula). Why doesn't Aqualad? "Animal Wonderland" (2 pages) Script: Martin Naydel Pencils: Martin Naydel Inks: Martin Naydel Colors: ? Letters: Ira Schnapp grade: F Seriously? Another severely outdated content piece that, according to the GCD, was originally printed in Rex the Wonder Dog in 1952, providing some incredibly juvenile facts, and accompanying simple drawings, pertaining to various animals ("Everything grows on an elephant except its EYES!"). It's not like this is even in any way relevant to any of the other content of this issue, and it really doesn't help DC's efforts in marketing this book to an older audience. Skeates couldn't just turn in another two pager, or maybe scrap both and have Aqualad actually struggle against that mutant for a few pages? This may well be the worst issue of Teen Titans ever printed. I sincerely hope the next outing is better.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jul 31, 2018 16:57:06 GMT -5
Some call it noise? Others call it crap. (Despite some nice Nick Cardy art.) This is an issue I have absolutely zero memory of, apparently with good reason. Thanks for going where few fans have gone before. Oh, and next review, don't hold back, shax.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 31, 2018 17:55:32 GMT -5
Teen Titans #31 (February 1971) "To Order Is to Destroy" Script: Steve Skeates Pencils: George Tuska Inks: Nick Cardy Colors: ? Letters: John Costanza grade: C For anyone who has lost track, in Teen Titans #25, the Titans took a vow to abandon their costumes and powers and tackle real-world issues instead. Then, in #28, after tackling zero real-world issues beyond befriending a black guy, they decided to go back to being superheroes, and then changed their minds again in a last minute epilogue. By #30, they were fully back into the no-costumes/no-powers mode. And now, as of this issue, it all changes again. For, even though Giordano claims in the letters page of this issue that they won't go back to the way things were due to low sales, he also states So, once again, things are changing...but they aren't...but they are. And one clear reflection of this confusion is the continued presence of the classic costumed Titans on the cover, including Robin who (one appearance in #28 aside) has now been off the title for a full year. If the new direction is all about sales, then why continue to have covers making it look like nothing has changed within? So this weird little outing tries to find the best of both worlds between classic costumed Titans and new, uncostumed, socially relevant Titans. They now appear in costume SOMETIMES, and the plot is more classic superhero fare than the realism we'd been served as of late, albeit with an odd socially-conscious twist: it's a college that attempts to "cure" students of their rebelliousness via a surgery that turns them into unthinking zombies. It's a pretty far-fetched plot, but viewed within the context of trying to appease the two competing directions the title was trying to move in, it becomes a little easier to stomach. And I wonder if the original intent behind this issue had been to return the Titans to a more classic depiction. After all, this issue that has them getting back into costume and fighting bad guys again, has at its center this one college student in need of help: I have nothing to support this, but I sort of wonder if that was originally intended to be Dick Grayson, the college Hudson University, and this story the means of bringing Robin back into the fold now that his Detective Comics backup feature was cancelled for a second time. But, if that was the case, someone clearly stepped in and demanded a partial rewrite/redraw (he has a hulking physique and a mustache in some other scenes). Robin won't be back on the title until Haney returns in two more issues. Minor Details:- Yet another instance of the team being referred to as the "New Titans" or "New Teen Titans": - Was it EVER okay to joke like this? A solo (or duo) Hawk & Dove feature follows in this issue. Once again, I can't decide whether they are trying to sell us on ancillary Titans members or just using the only ones available to appear in costume right now. Either way, I have to admit to skipping the story. I just wasn't interested.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 31, 2018 20:16:39 GMT -5
It's hard to believe the same team of Skeates and Giordano could make Aquaman so good and Teen Titans so bad.
Cei-U! I summon the mixed signals!
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 31, 2018 20:54:24 GMT -5
I remember as a youngster picking up various TT issues excited to see Robin , Kid Flash and the others , only to see non costumed people walking around. No costumes = no sales.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 31, 2018 21:16:22 GMT -5
I’m pretty sure that Teen Titans 31 was the first TT story I ever read...reprinted in an issue of Super-Team Family.
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Post by shaxper on Aug 2, 2018 17:19:17 GMT -5
Brave and the Bold #94 (March 1971) "Rebels in the Streets" Script: Bob Haney Pencils: Nick Cardy Inks: Nick Cardy Colors: ? Letters: Ben Oda grade: C Yeah, none of that fascinating cover action comes even close to matching what happens within this issue. Honestly, I had high hopes, as the Titans' previous appearance in Brave and the Bold (also written by Haney) remains my favorite Titans story from this era. But, whereas that story felt unlike anything Haney had written for the Titans before, this outing feels a lot more familiar. It's actually a nod back to the first real Teen Titans story in Brave and the Bold #60, where Haney tried to sell us on a vision of teenagers as a disenfranchised minority that wanted nothing more than empowerment: (from Brave and the Bold #60) It was a silly, idealized, over-simplification of the generation gap, but it was something worth believing in too. Now, half a decade later, and addressing an older audience, Haney presents a darker take on that original vision, in which teens (and maybe twenty-somethings) that are tired of being ignored have taken over a section of Gotham, managed to build an atom bomb, and have a list of demands for their political leaders. The whole thing is (once again) over-simplified and a little ridiculous in execution, but Haney's idealized vision of these misunderstood, unheard masses remains the same in spirit. Their demands, for example, are awfully reasonable (if impractical), and it's the adult leaders who come off as the irrational ones in reply: Haney even presents a vision of police brutality...with Commissioner Gordon as part of the problem. In fact, his tension with Batman in this story is pretty impressive, even if they're still pals by the close. It's a ridiculous story in many respects, but it's a maturing of Haney's original vision that strikes a little closer to reality this time around. And, of course, Nick Cardy makes the whole thing look good, so that's a plus. Still, it's regrettable that the Titans are only in this story to infiltrate the young rebels and for Lilith to use her psychic powers to neatly resolve the conflict by the close. This story is in no way theirs. Of course, judging this story from the perspective of the Post-Haney Teen Titans, one has to comment on the fact that Robin has been off the Teen Titans for a full year now, and yet Haney has him leading the group. I understand editors' offices were islands back in the day, and I know Cei-U! wants me to curb my expectations here, but this seems a little more ridiculous than getting the events of a single issue wrong. Perhaps my theory that Robin was originally slated to rejoin the Titans with issue #31 was correct after all. Or maybe Haney just wanted to write HIS Titans (plus Lilith) and wasn't overly concerned with what was happening in a title no one was buying anyway. Important Details:- Haney has Robin still leading the Titans - Let's be clear that Haney only omits two members from this mission: the guy he managed to keep off the team for several years even though fan letters kept demanding his inclusion, and the black guy.
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Post by Farrar on Aug 2, 2018 21:33:40 GMT -5
I remember as a youngster picking up various TT issues excited to see Robin , Kid Flash and the others , only to see non costumed people walking around. No costumes = no sales. I had some of these issues at the time they were on sale. Great covers and art, the best DC art I saw at the time. I enjoyed many of the stories. The notion of non-costumed team really appealed to me, it made me think that one day when I became a teenager I too could join a group like the Titans! (I did think it was silly that Wally and Donna wouldn't use their powers at times; I mean, c'mon, if you can run fast or have super strength it's kind of hard to hold that in check, isn't it?). Also this TT phase, or mostly the uniforms I guess, reminded me of the Secret Six, a favorite series of mine that had been canceled abruptly a couple of years earlier.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Aug 2, 2018 22:15:56 GMT -5
I'm pretty happy to see these reviews, as I've often thought I should get these, and they're not particularly cheap, so Shax is saving me alot of trouble I don't know anything about the behind the scenes stuff, but could it be that Skeates just wanted a vechile to tell an Aqualad side story attached to his Aquaman run, and took the Titans gig for that? Or was given it for work well done since it wasn't selling well anyway?
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Post by Farrar on Aug 2, 2018 22:18:54 GMT -5
Teen Titans #30 (December 1970) "Some Call it Noise" Script: Steve Skeates Pencils: Carmine Infantino Inks: Nick Cardy Colors:? Letters: Ben Oda Minor details: Aquagirl gets a name (Tula). Why doesn't Aqualad? Guess Aqualad fell through the cracks regarding a civilian name***, but here is some background on Aquagirl: Tula's debut was a few years earlier in Aquaman #33. Evidently she was a childhood friend of Aqualad's whom he hadn't seen in a while; and once she donned some "snazzy threads", Aqualad's eyes bugged out of his head and that's when he christened her Aquachick (formal code name Aquagirl). Her debut was a hit with readers and so she subsequently appeared on a semi-regular basis as a supporting cast member in the Aquaman book. And despite having no discernible super powers (much like Aqualad back then), there were often letters in the Aquaman and Titans lettercols suggesting that she join the Titans. ***From what I have read, Aqualad wouldn't get a civilian name until Tales of the Teen Titans #45...in 1985!
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Aug 3, 2018 4:14:15 GMT -5
And despite having no discernible super powers (much like Aqualad back then), there were often letters in the Aquaman and Titans lettercols suggesting that she join the Titans. I can't speak for Tula, but Aqualad has super strength in the pages of The Teen Titans. It is weird that, if he was named during the Wolfman era, they went with the name "Garth," as The Titans of that era already had a "Gar".
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