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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 23, 2016 13:37:56 GMT -5
Regarding strips, I read a superb collection of Dick Tracy strips that I couldn't put down. I have to say that each story was different enough that they did not become repetitious. I think what helped was that outside of Tracy, you really could not take the survival of any other character for granted, especially the villains, but also quite a few innocents caught in the line of fire, so to speak.
In addition, the criminals themselves varied in personality. Not every single one had been drinking at the Sociopathica Bar and Grille. They had plans and schemes that did not involve world domination. Madness and the threatened extinction of the world can become shortcuts for writers. Gould was always rooted in the real world of police work, which provided a nice balance to the fatalism and film noir aspects of his work.
Ironic, isn't it, that in today's hyper-real comics, villains have become so immune to capture, injury, punishment and death that they are beyond the abilities of one's disbelief to be suspended. The knock on the Joker and Luthor in the old days was how frequently they got out of jail. Compared to today, they might as well have been in the Super-Max back then.
Fully agree on all the Showcase-type collections. I love Enemy Ace, but even he simply never changed as a character. Sgt. Rock, the Challengers, the list goes on. But we all get it about comics from those days. We've gone from essentially continuity-free, static characters to continuity-entwined characters and realities that lurch from bizarre change to bizarre change.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Feb 23, 2016 18:44:05 GMT -5
I actually feel that way about most of the Silver Age stuff I've read (especially DC)... they can be weirdly wonderful, or something brilliant, but you can't read too many without losing the charm, IMO. Yeah, especially the Julie Schwartz books. They're some of the most (*the* most?) intricately plotted superhero comics of all time, so you really do have to stop every now and then and take stock of what's going on. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Feb 23, 2016 20:36:32 GMT -5
I'm currently reading the Flash Gordon Sundays for the first time. All my life I've heard how wonderful they are, and as individual strips they do not disappoint! The art is wonderful and the ideas are magical. Plenty happens in one page, and I can imagine what it was like to wait a week between each instalment. Superb. Except... After reading the first year's strips, at 2 or 3 per night before going to bed, I think it suffers. You start to see the repetition, the plot holes, and frankly I am starting to sympathise with the bad guys. Well maybe not with Ming, but sometimes I like the hawk men better than Flash. I now wish I had the patience to wait a week between pages. I found Alex Raymond's Flash Gordon pretty much unreadable in a hardcover collection format. Wonderful artwork...gorgeous, even, but man, those strips are hard going if you read 'em all together. Regarding strips, I read a superb collection of Dick Tracy strips that I couldn't put down. I have to say that each story was different enough that they did not become repetitious. I think what helped was that outside of Tracy, you really could not take the survival of any other character for granted, especially the villains, but also quite a few innocents caught in the line of fire, so to speak. Agreed. Dick Tracy is a perfect example of an older strip that you can read in bulk and it not get tiresome (well, at least until you get to the '60s and that Moon Maid nonsense). I also can read stuff like Eisner's Hawks of the Seas, Archie Goodwin and Al Williamson's Star Wars strip, and Rip Kirby in bulk without wanting to kill myself. So, I don't think it's necessaruily something that is intrinsic to newspaper adventure strips as a whole. As for the larger question about which stories are better in small doses, I find an awful lot of Silver Age Marvel to be like that (whereas Silver Age DC is basically unreadable to me). Exceptions to that rule would be Amazing Spider-Man, Dr. Strange and Daredevil (as long as it's not from the Mike Murdoch period <<shudder>>). I find that the '50s EC crime and horror books are also best sampled one at a time, rather than bulk reading them. They get kinda samey very quick. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 23, 2016 22:05:36 GMT -5
I know exactly what you mean about the ECs, Confessor: exquisite in small doses, but, man, sometimes it is a slog to get through the overwritten narration. And I thik the samenss of the layouts works against them, too.
As for the Marvel stuff, it depends on the particular time period, becaus even the best tend to repeat themselves. For instance, the same old-same old of the Spider-Man saop opera pushed the bounds of believability once you got into the Romita years. And a series like daredevil, which seemed to change style and focus regularly in an attempt to find its footing, must seem like a disjointed reaad at best.
The early Thor stories were like Spider-Man merged with Batman or Superman: soap opers circling around romance and secret identity issues and a dopey villain every month. Thank Odin for the return to Asgard!
The DC stories that I find I can read in larger numbers are from Strange Adventures (I have Volume 1) in its anthology days. Some samness, sure, but the plots are clever, so much so that you wish some could ahve beeen retold as longer stories. Another fun series that always was fresh was Doom Patrol. I have most of them in their original form, so didn't get the Showcases, but I bet they'd be enjoyable. This may sound like heresy, but you can make a case that there's more of the excitement and unlimited creativity of the early FF in that series than there are similarities to the X-Men.
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Post by tolworthy on Feb 24, 2016 3:23:09 GMT -5
I found Alex Raymond's Flash Gordon pretty much unreadable in a hardcover collection format. Wonderful artwork...gorgeous, even, but man, those strips are hard going if you read 'em all together. And not just because of the plots. Reading that book caused me to buy my first ever pair of glasses. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Feb 24, 2016 7:54:47 GMT -5
As for the Marvel stuff, it depends on the particular time period, becaus even the best tend to repeat themselves. For instance, the same old-same old of the Spider-Man saop opera pushed the bounds of believability once you got into the Romita years. And a series like daredevil, which seemed to change style and focus regularly in an attempt to find its footing, must seem like a disjointed reaad at best. The soap opera elements of Romita era Spider-Man might be my favourite thing about those comics. I really can't say I've ever found those issues wearing when they are read all together. If anything it's the constant superhero fights that get repetitive, rather than the soap opera bits. However, you must understand that I find it very hard to be unbiased and objective when talking about Silver Age Amazing Spider-Man because I love those books so much. You're spot on about Silver Age Daredevil though, when read in bulk. It is disjointed tonally and you also find that you get good and bad issues clumped together. So you'll be reading a really good issue or three, and then suddenly it'll go off into some kind of goofy direction and become a real bore. But then, three or four issues later, the book hits its stride again and you get some solid gold stuff. So yeah, uneven and disjointed is right, but at least that prevents it from getting samey. The early Thor stories were like Spider-Man merged with Batman or Superman: soap opers circling around romance and secret identity issues and a dopey villain every month. Thank Odin for the return to Asgard! I've read precious little Silver Age Thor, I'm afraid. I'm familiar with some of the earliest Journey into Mystery appearances from reprints of those issues in Marvel Tales, but I understand that the real meat of the matter, as far as Lee and Kirby's Thor goes, came a bit later on in the decade. I probably should read more of the thunder god's stuff -- not just the classic Silver Age stuff, but also Simonson's run from the '80s. Another fun series that always was fresh was Doom Patrol. I have most of them in their original form, so didn't get the Showcases, but I bet they'd be enjoyable. This may sound like heresy, but you can make a case that there's more of the excitement and unlimited creativity of the early FF in that series than there are similarities to the X-Men. Yeah, I think I'd agree with your FF parallel. I read roughly the first 10 issues or so of Doom Patrol via, **a-hem** "electronic means", and I was entertained and infuriated by them in equal measure. I didn't hate it though. I think I was sampling the series based on stuff that fans like yourself had said about it on the old CBR forum, but ultimately I decided not to purchase any of those issues because, while it was reasonably entertaining, it didn't set me on fire. Another Silver Age DC title that I really wanted to like was Sea Devils. Again, I sampled the first few issues via the magic of the internet (say no more!), but I was quite disappointed. It seemed quite generic, in terms of the characters and the plots. Great interior artwork though, and oh, those gorgeous covers! But there just didn't seem to be much meat in those stories. For me, being very much a "Marvel guy", I only become interested in a few DC titles once the '70s roll round. Stuff like Jonah Hex, Neal Adams era Batman and Bronze Age Superman and, at a push, a bit of Justice League of America. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 24, 2016 9:31:22 GMT -5
Every Showcase or Archive edition I ever bought  |
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Post by lobsterjohnson on Feb 24, 2016 10:20:01 GMT -5
Every Showcase or Archive edition I ever bought Heh. That's true for me, too. I enjoyed the old Moon Knight stories quite a bit when I read them, but it took me a few months to get through the whole book. Similarly, I have a big hardcover of the old Charlton Action Heroes Steve Ditko stuff. I've always liked the Question, so I've read all of those stories, but there are still large portions of that book that I haven't read after several years. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 24, 2016 11:10:24 GMT -5
DP may be an acquired taste, especially if you were more of a Marvel than a DC fan. I think the reall kookiness taht set it apart form so much of what was going on at DC at the time set in after the issues you're talking about, though.
I know just what you mean about Sea Devils. The same kind of "meh" that afflicted Rip Hunter. I think the former suffered because the settings are so much more restrictive. Tough to show much emotion on faces obscured by masks. And dialogue's even tougher. The covers were among the best at DC, so the letdown was palpable.
I have a soft spot in my heart for Rip Hunter, but the artwork was bland and the time travel angle just became an excuse for historical adventures. Time paradoxes, the effects of the past on the future and other basics of time travel stories were were left mostly unexplored.
And in both cases, personalities were dull at best. At least the Challengers tried a little bit to instigate some conflict and createe personality. Of course, as with the more complicated personalities in Doom Patrol, Arnold Drake was the writer.
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