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Post by berkley on Oct 7, 2021 22:54:35 GMT -5
I read Avengers #58 - "Even an Android Can Cry" I love this one!
Defintely would make my top-ten all-time great superhero comics. Also one of my favourite title or splash pages, with the Black Panther prowling above the title, which is incorporated into the scenery, in Eisner/Spirit-fashion.
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Post by tonebone on Oct 8, 2021 14:21:02 GMT -5
So, I've been reading the third volume of Superman Man of Steel, which covers the Superman titles from 87-89. There are a couple of things that stand out...
There's a plotline involving Maggie Sawyer's daughter. She (a Metropolis police detective) mentions that her 9 year old daughter has run away from home (in another city, with her dad) and is presumably on her way to Metropolis to her mother. At first mention, she's been missing for 5 days, and she's "worried", and seems to not know what to do about it. Things happen, including Superman's "death" and funeral, and then the entire Millennium crossover, and then THREE MONTHS LATER, Maggie is still "worried" and is encouraged to ask Superman for help. Remember, she's NINE YEARS OLD, and missing for 3 months. An interesting development in the story is that you learn, through innuendo and things "left unsaid" in a flashback that as Maggie's marriage falls apart, she resolves to stop pretending she's straight and acknowledges she's gay. In the present, she's living with a woman named Toby. This is handled in a very delicate way, and I'm sure they felt they had to be careful to skirt around Comics Code issues.
The second thing is that right after the Millennium hoo-ha, Lois tracks down Lana Lang (that tramp!) in Smallville, where Superman is with her!!! Then the Kents show up and try to explain why Clark's parents know Superman... So they explain that right after Clark was born, they found a baby in a crashed rocketship, and raised the two boys as brothers. Lois gets mad because Clark never told her he had an "in" with Superman, and therefore could scoop her on stories. Issues later, after they have returned to Metropolis, she's still mad at Superman and Clark. Does anyone know for how long this was canon? I have never heard this "explanation" of where Superman came from.
My third observation is that the whole middle half of this volume is Millennium tie-ins. They are boring, and terrible, and tedious to read. The whole thing comes across (in these tie-ins) as moronic and a waste of paper. I mean, part of the plot is that the ENTIRE town of Smallville is part of a mind-hive that alien Manhunters have subverted for years, and are awakened as sleeper agents (Lana included) to take over the Earth. All of it is tied to Superman's arrival, and even the blizzard that hid his "birth" to the Kents is created by the Manhunters... I think in retrospect, all of these crossovers are of the same ilk, and always serve to ruin the runs of my favorite comics, for sometimes several months. It takes a couple of issues after the crossover, before Byrne and company get back on their feet and back on their game.
Volume one and two are great, but this one is marred by that crossover and Byrne's seemingly compulsive retcon fever, even with his own (only two years old) history of Superman.
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Post by spoon on Oct 8, 2021 23:11:42 GMT -5
I read Uncanny X-Men #154-161 (all except #154 & #160 via Classic reprints). This is an interesting structure for the storytelling arc. There are four issues of the Brood storyline (#154-157), then basically a four issue interlude of other plots (with the Brood plot lurking in the background) (#158-161), before the Brood plotline comes to the forefront for another bunch of issues. Presumably this avoids the reader fatigue that would occur from 10 issues in a row of one arc. Also, two fill-in pencilers get one-off stories, and it helps set up some threads for the launch of New Mutants. #154 answers a couple lingering questions. Although Cyclops has rejoined the team, Storm remains the leader. And Kitty's parents allow her to stay at Xavier's school because Emma Frost rescinds her admission to the Massachusetts Academy. Most of the team is the sunken island raised to the surface in previous arc, while the mansion gets destroyed when Corsair is chased by Sidrian Hunters. Bringing back a dangling plotline, Cyclops learns Corsair is his father. Corsair reveals that Lilandra is kidnapped, putting the arc into motion. Over the next three issues, the Brood and Deathbird are brought into mix. This is Deathbird intro to X-Men, as she had previously shown up in Ms. Marvel and Avengers. The X-Men try to visit the Avengers, but only Tigra is home because Claremont probably just wanted to write a cat-woman in a bikini. Hilariously, this is just when Shooter is writing her out of the book, so an editor's note points out that Tigra's appearance predates her resignation. Kitty does a Phoneix impression in #157. Despite the perception the death of Phoenix had a lot of finality, I've noticed that there were so many callbacks to the character between the end of the Dark Phoenix Saga and the return of Jean Grey. But Corsair must've been really off the grid as a fugitive, because he doesn't even realize Phoenix has died. #157 ends with Professor X catatonic, which is the main Brood plot thread running through the "interlude" issues. There's some pretty heavy hints in retrospect about what's up with Xavier, although they may not have seemed so blatant to readers who had yet to learn the full story of the Brood. #158 introduces Rogue to Uncanny X-Men (after her first appearance in Avengers Annual #10) to set the wheels in motion to eventually have her reform and join the team. It also puts some focus on Carol Danvers, as she is to play a key role in the second half of the Brood arc. #159 is an interesting one-off with Dracula. It has nice Sienkiewicz/Wiacek, although Bill seems to determine to make everyone tall (including Wolverine). I wonder if there was a bit of a plot/art/script disconnect in the process, because the X-Men barge into Misty Knight's apartment in costume. Misty's roommate plays a surprisingly large guest-starring role. The annoying Claremontian tropes show up, as he makes another powerful evil guy (Dracula now, Dr. Doom a few issues back) fascinated with Storm, and she fascinated with them. For me, this backfires, because it feels like Claremont demanding that readers find Storm fascinated. It just makes me annoyed with her and wishing Piotr and Kurt got more attention. I remember that for a while #160 was the oldest issues of Uncanny X-Men I owened. It's the creepy Belasco/Illyana story that takes us from Magneto's island to Limbo. Brent Anderson and Bill Wiacek are well-suited to this disturbing story, although Anderson also seems to have decided every character is tall and lanky. Even before Illyana gets magically aged in Limbo, Anderson is drawing her to look years older than Cockrum depicted her (like 4 years old). This gives us a thread that'll play out in New Mutants. Finally, we get a flashback to Xavier and Magneto meeting for the first time in #161. It's hard for me to remember how much of the Magneto backstory was revealed in prior issues, but I'm pretty this is how we learn how he met Prof. X. We also get the first appearance of Gabrielle Haller, setting up yet another New Mutants plot thread. The framing sequence in the present has Xavier awakening from his coma, seemingly fine. But because he's still weak, he stays on Earth, while the X-Men participate in Lilandra's send-off. The issue ends with the X-Men captured by the Brood. With Xavier on Earth without his team, that's basically the start of the biggest thread leading to New Mutants. One thing I forgot to mention in early posts is how big a presence Kitty Pryde is in the issues immediately after the Dark Phoenix Saga. In terms of "screen time," she's the character who is most clearly a lead role. But over the course of these issue, we get more evenly distributed focus on the ensemble. With Carol Danvers, Corsair, Lilandra, and Illyana get much of the supporting cast focus, suddenly Lee Forrester and Stevie Hunter are nowhere to be found. Finally, in previous posts, badwolf and I were discussed whether or not Havok shows up anytime between the Doom/Arcade arc and rejoining the team. As it turns out, Havok and Lorna Dane actually do show up in #158-159 so Scott can introduce Corsair to them.
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Post by james on Oct 9, 2021 8:25:46 GMT -5
I’m reading what if volume 4. I loved this series when it came out. Only one complaint. They have included the original letters page. I understand they wanted to keep the integrity of the issue but I would have liked if they replaced the original letters page with the letter page that corresponded with the issue I’m reading. I started to read the letters page where they discussed issue 34 but it occurred to me issue 34 was not included in volume 4.
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Post by james on Oct 9, 2021 8:30:37 GMT -5
I read Avengers #58 - "Even an Android Can Cry" I love this one! I also read Avengers #59. This is a zany one as Jan decides to marry the apparent murderer of her fiancé! Could issue 59’s cover be the best use and most vibrant red ever?? Every time I look at this cover I am just struck by how the red just pops. This is the next cover I want blown up and framed for my comic room
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 9,571
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Post by Confessor on Oct 9, 2021 10:23:10 GMT -5
Prompted by a conversation on here with Josh a month or two back, I re-read the Dan Dare story arcs "Reign of the Robots" and "The Ship That Lived" (originally serialised in Eagle comic from Feb 1957 to April 1958). "Reign of the Robots" carries on from Dan's previous adventure "Rogue Planet", with he and his friends Digby, Lex and junior cadet 'Flamer' Spry returning to Earth only to find that the evil Venusian overlord the Mekon has invaded the planet with his army of "Elektobots" in their absence. I've spoken many times in the forum about my love of Dan Dare, and "Reign of the Robots" is a really strong entry in the series, as well as the last part of a loose trilogy that began with "The Man from Nowhere" and "Rogue Planet". The story is full of the usual British stiff-upper-lipped heroism from Dan and his Spacefleet pals, with moral lessons about protecting your friends and the value of honour and honesty a-plenty (as was usual for Eagle during this period). Frank Hampson's painted artwork is simply beautiful throughout and the storyline certainly gives him plenty of interesting inter-planetary locations to depict, from the dystopian, post-invasion Earth, to the exotic surface of Venus, and the "Sargasso Sea of space", which is full of derelict spaceships. "Reign of the Robots" is a top-drawer action adventure romp, with nary a dull moment. The Mekon and the evil Treens have never been more sinister and Dan and his friends never more resourceful. These are simply some hugely enjoyable '50s sci-fi comics.
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Post by badwolf on Oct 9, 2021 18:34:46 GMT -5
I finished the Man-Thing omnibus. As I've mentioned I have mixed feelings about the material. There's nothing really good after Gerber leaves the book (and his last batch of issues wasn't so hot.) Even Chris Claremont's portion is nothing to write home about. Why he decided to revisit the sky pirates I have no idea, as they weren't interesting the first time. Weirdly, he leaves the book on a metafictional note, as did Gerber.
So there's some scattered good stuff in the first half, a chunk of brilliant stories in the middle, and then nothing of note. Oh, the Doctor Strange issue is drawn by Gene Colan which is something. There is an amusing bit in that issue where a large chunk of exposition is presented simply as text; clearly Claremont's script exceeded what Gene could translate into images for a 16-page (or however long they were then) story.
Oddly there are a number of books missing from this collection. I've mentioned MTIO #1. Micronauts were omitted for reasons we know. Maybe MoKF had some licensed characters too. But other stuff is unexplainable. There was an issue of Savage She-Hulk which featured Richard Rory, my favorite MT supporting cast member. (He would join Jen's supporting cast, only to be unceremoniously forgotten at the end of that series. Poor Richard.) Did they have a page limit? I have larger omnibuses from Marvel.
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Post by berkley on Oct 9, 2021 18:41:04 GMT -5
Prompted by a conversation on here with Josh a month or two back, I re-read the Dan Dare story arcs "Reign of the Robots" and "The Ship That Lived" (originally serialised in Eagle comic from Feb 1957 to April 1958). "Reign of the Robots" carries on from Dan's previous adventure "Rogue Planet", with he and his friends Digby, Lex and junior cadet 'Flamer' Spry returning to Earth only to find that the evil Venusian overlord the Mekon has invaded the planet with his army of "Elektobots" in their absence. I've spoken many times in the forum about my love of Dan Dare, and "Reign of the Robots" is a really strong entry in the series, as well as the last part of a loose trilogy that began with "The Man from Nowhere" and "Rogue Planet". The story is full of the usual British stiff-upper-lipped heroism from Dan and his Spacefleet pals, with moral lessons about protecting your friends and the value of honour and honesty a-plenty (as was usual for Eagle during this period). Frank Hampson's painted artwork is simply beautiful throughout and the storyline certainly gives him plenty of interesting inter-planetary locations to depict, from the dystopian, post-invasion Earth, to the exotic surface of Venus, and the "Sargasso Sea of space", which is full of derelict spaceships. "Reign of the Robots" is a top-drawer action adventure romp, with nary a dull moment. The Mekon and the evil Treens have never been more sinister and Dan and his friends never more resourceful. These are simply some hugely enjoyable '50s sci-fi comics.
I just started the first Dan Dare adventure, "Voyage to Venus", a few days ago, partly on your recommendation, and I'm enjoying it immensely. Can't think what kept me from trying this series or so long, especially since I've been looking for 1950s things to read the last couple of years. I can imagine how influential it must have been, starting right at the beginning of the decade - for example, would the Gerry Anderson Supermarionation shows have been the same without the Dan Dare comics?
Otherwise, reached what seems to be an imprending change of scene in Steve Canyon, with hints being thrown out that the action will switch from the domestic US to far eastern Asia. And still plugging along with Pogo.
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Post by Batflunkie on Oct 9, 2021 19:00:35 GMT -5
I finished the Man-Thing omnibus. As I've mentioned I have mixed feelings about the material. There's nothing really good after Gerber leaves the book (and his last batch of issues wasn't so hot.) Even Chris Claremont's portion is nothing to write home about. Why he decided to revisit the sky pirates I have no idea, as they weren't interesting the first time. Weirdly, he leaves the book on a metafictional note, as did Gerber. So there's some scattered good stuff in the first half, a chunk of brilliant stories in the middle, and then nothing of note. Oh, the Doctor Strange issue is drawn by Gene Colan which is something. There is an amusing bit in that issue where a large chunk of exposition is presented simply as text; clearly Claremont's script exceeded what Gene could translate into images for a 16-page (or however long they were then) story. Oddly there are a number of books missing from this collection. I've mentioned MTIO #1. Micronauts were omitted for reasons we know. Maybe MoKF had some licensed characters too. But other stuff is unexplainable. There was an issue of Savage She-Hulk which featured Richard Rory, my favorite MT supporting cast member. (He would join Jen's supporting cast, only to be unceremoniously forgotten at the end of that series. Poor Richard.) Did they have a page limit? I have larger omnibuses from Marvel. I don't think I've ever really cared for anything Claremont has written save for Excalibur. To me, both him and Neil Gaiman write with very flowery prose that's over encumbered with a sense of dramaticism. It is "art", I'll give it that much, but it's not for me
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 9,571
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Post by Confessor on Oct 9, 2021 20:07:10 GMT -5
Prompted by a conversation on here with Josh a month or two back, I re-read the Dan Dare story arcs "Reign of the Robots" and "The Ship That Lived" (originally serialised in Eagle comic from Feb 1957 to April 1958). "Reign of the Robots" carries on from Dan's previous adventure "Rogue Planet", with he and his friends Digby, Lex and junior cadet 'Flamer' Spry returning to Earth only to find that the evil Venusian overlord the Mekon has invaded the planet with his army of "Elektobots" in their absence. I've spoken many times in the forum about my love of Dan Dare, and "Reign of the Robots" is a really strong entry in the series, as well as the last part of a loose trilogy that began with "The Man from Nowhere" and "Rogue Planet". The story is full of the usual British stiff-upper-lipped heroism from Dan and his Spacefleet pals, with moral lessons about protecting your friends and the value of honour and honesty a-plenty (as was usual for Eagle during this period). Frank Hampson's painted artwork is simply beautiful throughout and the storyline certainly gives him plenty of interesting inter-planetary locations to depict, from the dystopian, post-invasion Earth, to the exotic surface of Venus, and the "Sargasso Sea of space", which is full of derelict spaceships. "Reign of the Robots" is a top-drawer action adventure romp, with nary a dull moment. The Mekon and the evil Treens have never been more sinister and Dan and his friends never more resourceful. These are simply some hugely enjoyable '50s sci-fi comics. I just started the first Dan Dare adventure, "Voyage to Venus", a few days ago, partly on your recommendation, and I'm enjoying it immensely. Can't think what kept me from trying this series or so long, especially since I've been looking for 1950s things to read the last couple of years. I can imagine how influential it must have been, starting right at the beginning of the decade - for example, would the Gerry Anderson Supermarionation shows have been the same without the Dan Dare comics?
Ah, great stuff. Glad you're enjoying it. The Voyage to Venus strip is a classic.
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Post by badwolf on Oct 9, 2021 20:13:23 GMT -5
I finished the Man-Thing omnibus. As I've mentioned I have mixed feelings about the material. There's nothing really good after Gerber leaves the book (and his last batch of issues wasn't so hot.) Even Chris Claremont's portion is nothing to write home about. Why he decided to revisit the sky pirates I have no idea, as they weren't interesting the first time. Weirdly, he leaves the book on a metafictional note, as did Gerber. So there's some scattered good stuff in the first half, a chunk of brilliant stories in the middle, and then nothing of note. Oh, the Doctor Strange issue is drawn by Gene Colan which is something. There is an amusing bit in that issue where a large chunk of exposition is presented simply as text; clearly Claremont's script exceeded what Gene could translate into images for a 16-page (or however long they were then) story. Oddly there are a number of books missing from this collection. I've mentioned MTIO #1. Micronauts were omitted for reasons we know. Maybe MoKF had some licensed characters too. But other stuff is unexplainable. There was an issue of Savage She-Hulk which featured Richard Rory, my favorite MT supporting cast member. (He would join Jen's supporting cast, only to be unceremoniously forgotten at the end of that series. Poor Richard.) Did they have a page limit? I have larger omnibuses from Marvel. I don't think I've ever really cared for anything Claremont has written save for Excalibur. To me, both him and Neil Gaiman write with very flowery prose that's over encumbered with a sense of dramaticism. It is "art", I'll give it that much, but it's not for me I may be less enamoured of Claremont's scripting than I used to be, but I always thought he wrote interesting stories. The ones here just weren't.
Admittedly, Man-Thing must be a difficult character to keep a series going around. He is mindless and reactive, so there's not much to go on there. It's surprising that they gave him his own series... twice.
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Post by commond on Oct 10, 2021 1:51:02 GMT -5
Big day for me as I finished up Jonah Hex, Sandman Mystery Theatre, and Roy Thomas' original run on Conan the Barbarian.
Jonah Hex remained a high quality book until the end, though it takes a dip toward the end when the book goes bi-monthly and Fleisher is busy at work on the Hex series. The last three issues are drawn and colored by the Gray Morrow. The artwork is gorgeous and the people are beautiful, but Morrow's style doesn't fit the gritty image of the series. The Crisis tie-in is awful, and yet it isn't the most frustrating part of the conclusion. Throughout the series, one of the most important aspects of the story was the women in Jonah's life, and yet we never find out what happens to Adrian or Emmylou, and even Mei Ling is treated shabbily. I suspect Fleisher felt that he could always return Jonah to the West and continue telling these stories, and indeed a few years later, Fleisher wrote one last Jonah story in Secret Origins which confirms that Jonah made it back to the West. It also sets up some lore about some tragedy befalling Jonah's son. I don't know if another writer followed up on that. I'm currently weighing up whether to read any of the later Jonah runs. Fleisher ended up penning over 100 Jonah stories. It was a brilliant run. Aside from the unresolved plot points, the only part I didn't like was when Jonah was abducted and taken to China, and even then I liked the story on the boat ride back. I'm gonna miss that ugly mug.
Sandman Mystery Theatre ended strongly. I was pleased that Seagle resolved the things that had been nagging at me about Wesley & Dian's relationship. The final issue is really beautiful. It's almost as perfect as the ending to Casablanca. It's amazing how Seagle was able to wrap up so many plot points within a single issue. There were more stories the creators could have told, but they were fighting an uphill battle with sales. Having Wesley pull the plug on his own comic was brilliant. Personally, I thought the middle of the series was when the book was firing on all cylinders, but the book maintained its integrity until the end, which is rare with comic book runs.
Roy Thomas was also able to exit Conan on a high, penning the 10th anniversary issue where Conan finally deals with his grief over Belit's death. Conan had spent a couple of years wandering about having adventures in the wake of her death. Occasionally, there would be references to her, but we never saw Conan grieve over her. This actually bugged me a bit as I wanted to see how a barbarian would react to these types of circumstances. I didn't expect him to have an arguments with God like Jonah did, but I wanted to see how his brooding would play out. Thankfully, Roy handled it beautifully and signed off with one of his best stories. Not sure where I'll go next with Conan. There is so much content I haven't read yet.
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Post by commond on Oct 10, 2021 1:53:54 GMT -5
I don't think I've ever really cared for anything Claremont has written save for Excalibur. To me, both him and Neil Gaiman write with very flowery prose that's over encumbered with a sense of dramaticism. It is "art", I'll give it that much, but it's not for me I may be less enamoured of Claremont's scripting than I used to be, but I always thought he wrote interesting stories. The ones here just weren't.
Admittedly, Man-Thing must be a difficult character to keep a series going around. He is mindless and reactive, so there's not much to go on there. It's surprising that they gave him his own series... twice.
My favorite Man-Thing story is the Gray Morrow story from Savage Tales. I would have preferred Man-Thing to be more a horror story.
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Post by berkley on Oct 10, 2021 3:01:12 GMT -5
I liked Claremont as a superhero writer on things like X-Men and Marvel Team-up, but always thought he was the wrong kind of writer for Man-Thing and therefore avoided the revived series that came out in the late 70s or early 80s. I think they should have given him and Byrne the Avengers at some point, but I suppose that partnership had already broken up anyway. Basically, I think he was really good at his own particular variation of the traditional Marvel-style superhero soap-opera originated by Stan Lee and carried on by people like Roy Thomas, and that's what he should have stuck with - but perhaps would have been better served by moving on to other characters instead of staying with the X-Men so long.
But besides all that, for me Gerber, even though he wasn't the original creator, had made Man-Thing his own book to such a degree that I wasn't much interested in seeing someone else's take on it. Maybe if it had been a different writer - e.g. Englehart or Wolfman or Moench or McGregor - I would have taken a chance on it, as I did Wolfman and later Starlin on Doctor Strange after Englehart left, but certainly not Claremont who, though I liked, I thought completely unsuited to the series.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 9,571
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Post by Confessor on Oct 10, 2021 3:48:25 GMT -5
Jonah Hex remained a high quality book until the end, though it takes a dip toward the end when the book goes bi-monthly and Fleisher is busy at work on the Hex series. The last three issues are drawn and colored by the Gray Marrow. The artwork is gorgeous and the people are beautiful, but Marrow's style doesn't fit the gritty image of the series. The Crisis tie-in is awful, and yet it isn't the most frustrating part of the conclusion. Throughout the series, one of the most important aspects of the story was the women in Jonah's life, and yet we never find out what happens to Adrian or Emmylou, and even Mei Ling is treated shabbily. I suspect Fleisher felt that he could always return Jonah to the West and continue telling these stories, and indeed a few years later, Fleisher wrote one last Jonah story in Secret Origins which confirms that Jonah made it back to the West. It also sets up some lore about some tragedy befalling Jonah's son. I don't know if another writer followed up on that. I'm currently weighing up whether to read any of the later Jonah runs. Fleisher ended up penning over 100 Jonah stories. It was a brilliant run. Aside from the unresolved plot points, the only part I didn't like was when Jonah was abducted and taken to China, and even then I liked the story on the boat ride back. I'm gonna miss that ugly mug. The three Tim Truman/Joe R. Lansdale mini-series are well worth your time -- they take the subtle "weird West" vibe of some the earliest Jonah Hex comics and turn it up to 10. Also, the later, 2000s ongoing series by Jimmy Palmiotti and Justin Grey is really good too. There were around 70 odd issues of that series. Be warned though, it all turned to s**t when the series was renamed All-Star Western and renumbered with a new issue #1 in 2011. The powers that he decided to turn Jonah into an ancillary character for the Batman books and had him travel to modern day New York with Booster Gold. Awful, awful comics.
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