|
Post by profh0011 on Nov 20, 2020 23:11:29 GMT -5
Reading the Hulk and got up to when Gil Kane became the artist and was inking himself which leads up to when everyone finds out for certain that the Hulk is Bruce Banner and The Abomination first shows up. It was in the 3 John Buscema episodes that Banner's identity became public knowledge. I've long felt that 3rd Buscema episode, which neatly WRAPPED up what I see as the original long, long storyline, that Jack Kirby began began in HULK #1, and continued when he came back to replace Steve Ditko, would have been a perfect place to END the series. Banner proved Hulk was a HERO, he single-handedly saved all of New York City, and Ross was ready to declare that he was not a menace.
Then Gil Kane turned up and sure enough, he unleashed HELL. Within 3 pages, Boomerang provoked Hulk to violence, and Ross tore up the Presidential "pardon".
When Marie Severin arrived 4 issues later, it began a seemingly-endless era of "Hulk vs. monster-of-the-month", where NOTHING ever changed or improved for Banner or Hulk.
The only thing I actually liked about Marie's HULK was, she returned Hulk to being "handsome"... as Kirby had intended way back in HULK #1. (The one time I met her at a NYC convention, I told her I thought she made Hulk look like Rock Hudson. She liked that...)
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2020 4:03:17 GMT -5
Revisited the Barry Smith era of Conan (#1-24*), While very near and dear to my heart, it is a very uneven run of books, due mostly to Smith's struggles with deadlines and the hoops Marvel had to jump through to put issues out on time (rotating inkers, multiple inkers on a single issue, producing half a book from the pencils only, using BWS layouts and having 4 other artists do full pencils & inks over them, etc.). There is some glorious stuff there, but part of me wonders/wishes what it could have been had the assembly line been dismantled and the bi-monthly/monthly schedule forgotten and BWS could have done full art on them (inks and colors included) instead of the mish-mash we got (as good as that mish-mash was). It's kind of ironic that Smith was improving in leaps and bounds over the course of the run and was very raw in the early issues when he had a bi-monthly schedule but was hampered by going monthly as he got better and was hitting his stride leading to all the hoops I mentioned preventing us from truly seeing his best work and what he could have produced had he not been rushed.
The stories are good despite it all. However, Roy Thomas' Conan still reads to me more akin to deCamp/Carter Conan than it does as Howard Conan, but that was the Conan zeitgeist of the time it was being produced and there were not many who had read Howard's Conan free of the editorial hand of deCamp/Carter at that time unless they had read the Conan stories as they appeared in Weird Tales and not in the various book collections from the Gnome editions forward. Now I like the deCamp/Carter stuff, it is the first Conan I read and how I discovered Howard in prose, but finally getting pure unadulterated Howard Conan in the early part of this century was an epiphany and has colored my perspective on all Conan before it. I got spoiled, I admit it, and it's hard to go back to seeing/reading Conan through the deCamp/Carter lens for me now and that includes at times the Marvel/Thomas' Conan. But Thomas was growing and improving and finally hitting his stride by the end of that run as well, so there's that.
I am hoping to continue through the entire CTB run (there are parts I haven't gotten to after finally completing the run a few years back), but I know I stalled in the 40s the last time I tried a read through simply because of time and schedule crush, not a lack of interest/enjoyment, so we will see what happens this time through. I've been averaging about 3 issues a day since I started a little more than a week ago, and that pace feels about right for right now, so we'll see if I can sustain it for as along as the Conan mood that struck me lasts.
-M
*includes 2 issues by Gil Kane and one reprint due to BWS' pages getting lost in the mail)
|
|
|
Post by beccabear67 on Nov 21, 2020 13:31:32 GMT -5
Reading the Hulk and got up to when Gil Kane became the artist and was inking himself which leads up to when everyone finds out for certain that the Hulk is Bruce Banner and The Abomination first shows up. I always like Gil Kane's artwork as a kid in the 80s, but these Hulk issues are some of the most lush I have seen of his work. You really can see some textures and aspects of his artwork that kinda show up in some Walt Simonson, Mike Mignola and even Frank Miller. I always figured Byrne really liked Gil Kane, but I think it some of the details that the inking on these issues that make some elements pop in other ways for me. There is some really nice 'cinematography' in some of the panel layouts. It really jumped out to me. Gil Kane at Marvel in the '60s was pretty cool to see, I remember The Hulk and also Captain America by him from back then. One of the few Marvels I saw when I was little was his Gulliver Jones in Creatures On the Loose, but mostly just remembered the women being colored yellow. I really loved '60s Gil Kane DCs when I could find them... The Atom & Green Lantern, but I had some even earlier Westerns he'd done. I liked his own inking a lot, and he got more distinctive over time. I read an interview with him that made a lot of sense to me regarding artists seeing through things and understanding how they are constructed and interact with other 'objects'. I may not have failed the drafting class I tried had I read him earlier. It always felt like he could draw anything comfortably and without having to pull out loads of references. You could though learn how to borrow from other artists without copying, because you'd be able to deconstruct what they had done and rebuild something similar yourself. Kane was kind of the opposite of a Gene Colan or Mike Sekowsky who seemed to have no real construction underneath things, yet worked in their own fashion just fine. I'm pretty sure John Byrne's approach to constructing things is a lot like Kane's, but don't know if he learned that approach independently or sparked at all by seeing Kane comics. John Buscema in his classes and that How To Draw The Marvel Way book has a lot of that in there as well, and there were books before that by Andrew Loomis and Jack Hamm many comics people were directed toward. Where you have that truly solid drawing any kind of finish, even with Sharpie markers as Alex Toth showed, wouldn't diminish it's strength. It's the people who would loads masses of lines and detail on that are usually trying to cover up the weakness in that area. People who can really draw can make so much more money in storyboarding for film or animation though, so comics have mostly always been an option for those who can turn out volume and the rest have had bumpy rides and lower quality livings. Gil Kane like Jack Kirby, Joe Kubert, Steve Ditko and John Byrne, has always seemed like one of those people born to make comics!
|
|
|
Post by earl on Nov 22, 2020 20:32:00 GMT -5
Kane's artwork really popped on this reprint. There is some textural stuff to the inking though that are used as effects in some other artists stuff.
That said, the fight scenes are really kinetic and jump off the page. Another classic comic artist whose stuff in later reading jumped off the page was reading Ross Andru's Spider-man in an essential in black and white. Some pages and panels looked amazing in their layout. One of my favorite sequences is when Peter is dropping off MJ at the Airport, I remember there being some really lovely panels in a total not action setup.
|
|
|
Post by earl on Nov 22, 2020 20:34:26 GMT -5
One cool thing about Buscema and one of my favorite of his character poses is that slightly hunched like a wrestler with the character scowling back like lets get it going in the panel. He did that pose with the Hulk, Conan, Wolverine, Thor etc...
|
|
|
Post by Farrar on Nov 23, 2020 12:16:20 GMT -5
Can anyone pinpoint when The Puppet Master's daughter Alicia was referred to as Alicia Masters? I see her referred to that way in #65, but she appeared many times before then as did the Puppet Master (aka Philip Masters)... She was first referred to as "Alicia Masters" in-story in a caption in Fantastic Four #49, when the Surfer crashes through her skylight. What happened was that in FF #39's lettercol a fan asked what Alicia's last name was. Marvel admitted it had never got around to that giving her one, and asked for reader suggestions. A few issues later in #42's lettercol another reader came up with "Masters", which had a connection to Alicia's step-father the Puppet Master. (This reader also suggests a scenario regarding Alicia's background that Marvel would use later on, in part anyway, in Marvel Team-Up #6.) I'm a big Alicia fan, she was one of my favorite Silver Age Marvels characters--esp. loved her role in the Galactus and Him arcs. Much later on (decades later in fact) I read the epic FF #236; it was just so perfect for this celebrated tale that Byrne drew her as she appeared back when Ben first met her in #8.
|
|
|
Post by beccabear67 on Nov 23, 2020 12:57:18 GMT -5
One cool thing about Buscema and one of my favorite of his character poses is that slightly hunched like a wrestler with the character scowling back like lets get it going in the panel. He did that pose with the Hulk, Conan, Wolverine, Thor etc... I was just (re)reading Avengers #43 and thinking John Buscema showed Hercules in a stance like a Greco-Roman wrestler prepared to grapple. Herc was challenging Captain America with the 'gift of battle' to prove his leadership.
|
|
|
Post by beccabear67 on Nov 23, 2020 13:02:45 GMT -5
Can anyone pinpoint when The Puppet Master's daughter Alicia was referred to as Alicia Masters? I see her referred to that way in #65, but she appeared many times before then as did the Puppet Master (aka Philip Masters)... She was first referred to as "Alicia Masters" in-story in a caption in Fantastic Four #49, when the Surfer crashes through her skylight. What happened was that in FF #39's lettercol a fan asked what Alicia's last name was. Marvel admitted it had never got around to that giving her one, and asked for reader suggestions. A few issues later in #42's lettercol another reader came up with "Masters", which had a connection to Alicia's step-father the Puppet Master. (This reader also suggests a scenario regarding Alicia's background that Marvel would use later on, in part anyway, in Marvel Team-Up #6.) I'm a big Alicia fan, she was one of my favorite Silver Age Marvels characters--esp. loved her role in the Galactus and Him arcs. Much later on (decades later in fact) I read the epic FF #236; it was just so perfect for this celebrated tale that Byrne drew her as she appeared back when Ben first met her in #8. It's quite a story behind the name! Maybe we're lucky a reader didn't come up with The Puppet Master being The Yellow Kid from the really old newspaper comics grown up! I miss the autographed FF #236 I once had.
|
|
|
Post by spoon on Nov 23, 2020 18:19:24 GMT -5
I'm a couple issues into the Black Panther versus the Klan story from Jungle Action. I heard somewhere that while the launch of Kirby's Black Panther series interrupted the run of Jungle Action, McGregor wrapper up the Klan story somewhere else a while later. Is that correct? Does anyone know where that storyline was wrapped up?
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Nov 23, 2020 18:35:28 GMT -5
I'm a couple issues into the Black Panther versus the Klan story from Jungle Action. I heard somewhere that while the launch of Kirby's Black Panther series interrupted the run of Jungle Action, McGregor wrapper up the Klan story somewhere else a while later. Is that correct? Does anyone know where that storyline was wrapped up? I think it was revived in the last issue of Black Panther (#15) and then concluded in Marvel Premiere #52 and #53.
|
|
|
Post by EdoBosnar on Nov 24, 2020 5:35:13 GMT -5
I'm a couple issues into the Black Panther versus the Klan story from Jungle Action. I heard somewhere that while the launch of Kirby's Black Panther series interrupted the run of Jungle Action, McGregor wrapper up the Klan story somewhere else a while later. Is that correct? Does anyone know where that storyline was wrapped up? I think it was revived in the last issue of Black Panther (#15) and then concluded in Marvel Premiere #52 and #53. It was concluded in Marvel Premiere #51-53. You don't necessarily need to read BP #15. The story itself is pretty unsatisfying, though, as it wasn't written by Don McGregor. However, I can't diss those three issues of Marvel Premiere too much, because the little editor's notes referring to the original stories in Jungle Action actually prompted me to seek out those out back in the early 1980s, and thus I discovered McGregor's Black Panther run...
|
|
|
Post by beccabear67 on Nov 24, 2020 12:44:12 GMT -5
I had those three Marvel Premieres from when they came out. I really like Jerry Bingham's art on those! At the time I found the story a bit hard to get into though.
|
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 9,597
Member is Online
|
Post by Confessor on Nov 25, 2020 1:55:27 GMT -5
Continuing with my re-read of Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale's colour-themed Marvel books, I finished Hulk: Gray last night... This book covers the period in which Dr. Bruce Banner was caught in a Gamma Radiation accident and first became the Hulk – so, basically the day or two depicted in The Incredible Hulk #1 (when, as the title suggests, the Hulk was grey-skinned, rather than green). In all honesty, I've never really been that much of a Hulk fan – give me the Thing any old day when it comes to Marvel's strongmen – but I certainly understand the appeal of this tragic, ferocious monster. The book is, like its predecessors, told in flashback form: in this instance, as a psychiatric therapy session between Banner and "Doc" Samson. Writer Jeph Loeb is primarily concerned with the tragedy of the Hulk's origin story and how it effects and impacts Hulk/Banner, his girlfriend Betty Ross, and her father General "Thunderbolt" Ross. In particular, the narrative dwells on what might have happened had "Thunderbolt" Ross not relentlessly pursued the Hulk. With the attendant suggestion being that it is Ross himself who is the real monster here, not Banner. Like the other colour-themed books in this series, the "Gray" mentioned in the title has a double meaning, referring to both the Hulk's skin colour, but also the character's moral ambiguity. Personally, I've always felt that this was the weakest of the colour-themed books and that was definitely my impression again on this re-read. It just doesn't resonate with me in the same, heavily emotional way as Daredevil: Yellow or Spider-Man: Blue. That might partly be because I don't have the same familiarity with the Hulk, not having read anywhere near the amount of Hulk comics as I have with Daredevil and Spider-Man. Tim Sale's artwork is predictably gorgeous throughout and I particularly like that this book sees the return of the gorgeous shadows and washes that he employed so well in Yellow, but which were sadly missing from Blue to a large extent. The Hulk himself is drawn very bestially – and I mean, even more than usual. The inspiration for this hunched, gormless depiction of the creature was apparently inspired by the Inedible Bulk from Marvel's old Silver Age humour comic Not Brand Echh. I think Sale's depiction works well enough within the context of Loeb's script, but it's very different to how the Hulk was depicted by Jack Kirby in The Incredible Hulk #1. Overall, this a good, entertaining read and, as with the other books in the series, there's a strong, wistfully nostalgic yen for the Silver Age of comics. It's a quicker read than the other books though, mostly due to the lack of dialogue from the Hulk himself: there are just less words in this book than in the previous two, pure and simple. But it doesn't ever grip me and, more importantly, move me. Banner comes across as rather self-pitying and if, like me, you've read very little in the way of Hulk comics, Loeb doesn't provide enough character development and narrative meat to make you really care about Banner and Betty Ross.
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Nov 26, 2020 13:04:29 GMT -5
I read this today, It's the 2nd part of a 3 part prestige format comic book from DC released in 2001 Green Lantern Dragon Lord By Doug Moench, Paul Gulacy and Joe Rubinstein. Although it reads like a MOKF Shang Chi adventure, I enjoyed it. Essentially it's a revenge tale where his monastery is decimated and he is given the Ring and Lantern from an alien. He refuses to use the ring until he is worthy , and he goes after a woman who is held captive who he owes some type of debt to ( I missed part one). All in all , this elseworlds book is a good read.
|
|
|
Post by dbutler69 on Nov 26, 2020 16:29:20 GMT -5
I read this today, It's the 2nd part of a 3 part prestige format comic book from DC released in 2001 Green Lantern Dragon Lord By Doug Moench, Paul Gulacy and Joe Rubinstein. Although it reads like a MOKF Shang Chi adventure, I enjoyed it. Essentially it's a revenge tale where his monastery is decimated and he is given the Ring and Lantern from an alien. He refuses to use the ring until he is worthy , and he goes after a woman who is held captive who he owes some type of debt to ( I missed part one). All in all , this elseworlds book is a good read. Never heard of it, but it sounds really good! I'll have to check it out. Always good to see Moench and Gulacy together.
|
|