shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,864
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Post by shaxper on Feb 4, 2016 22:10:41 GMT -5
With Read a Graphic Novel week quickly approaching, I'm sure we have some folks here who have no idea what they are planning on reading. With that in mind, what are your personal Top Three Graphic Novels EVERYONE Needs to Read Before They Die?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 23:05:53 GMT -5
I need some time to narrow down my list to 3 but if people are looking for suggestions a few possibl elists (and I've not read a lot on thse so I need to track some down... Here's GQ's list of 20 GN everyone should read... GQaside-who ever thought GQ would acknowledge comics let alone do an article on 20 GNs you need to read before you die-that would have been inconceivable when I first started seriously exploring comics outside super-heroes 30 years ago... and then Rolling Stone's list of the 50 best non-super-hero GN's Rolling Stonefor the more super-hero oriented among us, a blast form the past from Shax's old friend Wizard Magazine, their top 100 GN... Wizard top 100I'd also suggest checking out this year's 12 Days of Christmas for ideas, and finding a cartoonist and his works to read, there were so many great entries there this year. But I'll have to give more thought to the 3 I would pick to answer Shax's question. -M
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 23:25:34 GMT -5
If it counts as a GN, I would say Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud would top my list of 3 everyone needs to read. Comics and Sequential Art by Eisner could be an acceptable substitute, but McCloud's opus is a bit more reader friendly to a modern audience I think, not better but more accessible.
(Speaking of McCloud, I would definitely recommend The Sculptor to someone looking for something to read for the week. Not one of my three everyone should read before they die books, but something of interest to people who love comics who ma not have had a chance to read it yet.)
Second, I think I would put Fax from Sarajevo by Joe Kubert. Kubert is a master of the craft and Fax is a powerful story exploring the way comics can be used to tell stories about the human condition. A serious work on a serious matter-there are others of this ilk just as worthy-Maus, Persepolis, etc. but Kubert is such a master of the art and craft of visual storytelling it serves as a showcase of the possibilities of the artform as well as a damn good moving story in and of itself.
Going to need to ponder the third choice for a while though...
-M
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Post by coke & comics on Feb 5, 2016 3:52:51 GMT -5
Depends what you mean by graphic novel.
Within the "unambiguously a graphic novel" class, and within American comics (what I know best): I could get behind mrp's Understanding Comics.
Then I'd go with Blankets by Craig Thompson.
The third will take some reflection, but I lean toward Fun Home by Alison Beichdel.
Within the "someone might call it a graphic novel" class: I think V for Vendetta is a comic everyone should read. If someone were to read one comic, I think that's a good choice. And there's no excuse for any comics fan not having read it. It's on the short list of comics that should be part of the vocabulary of being a comics fan.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 6, 2016 8:32:47 GMT -5
Wow, that GQ list is trying way to hard... I've never heard of most of them, and those that I have are not anything I'd even THINK about putting on such a list... especially since quite a few of them are simply the first volumes of long running series. ROlling Stone's list is far better, but includes several things that are properties rather than graphics novels, so it's kinda odd. Wizard's is (Unsurprisingly) mostly superheroes, and has some really odd picks (Early Valiant Magnus? Hawkworld?), but is interesting for what it is If you're talking 'books I give people who don't like comics: 1) Fables -not really a graphic novel though... unless you want to call the first 75 issues one big novel 2) V for Vendetta -More's best work, IMO.. and very relatabele 3) Kingdom Come - for people who know a little about superheroes and like them, but have never actually read comics. Maybe they're great, but I really have zero interest in memoir style non-fiction... comics or otherwise. I just don't care about other people that much
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Post by coke & comics on Feb 6, 2016 14:38:31 GMT -5
The Wizard list clearly takes the "fits in a book" point of view in terms of definitions.
That's certainly the easiest one.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 14:40:50 GMT -5
The Wizard list is also several years older than the others as Wizard has been defunct for a while now, and nothing produced after it folded is included on the list.
-M
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 14:48:18 GMT -5
Wow, that GQ list is trying way to hard... I've never heard of most of them, and those that I have are not anything I'd even THINK about putting on such a list... especially since quite a few of them are simply the first volumes of long running series. Where you see them trying to hard, I see them trying to find stuff that will appeal to a mass audience, i.e. their audience and not to the hardcore niche of direct market comic book buyers many of whom support super-hero comics and nothing else. They are looking at stuff that might appeal to readers not brought up on comic books and not enculturated by mainstream super-hero comics. Sure there is some mainstream big 2 stuff on their list, but they range afield because the mass audience has a much broader spectrum of tastes than the direct market super-hero buying customer base. If you did a Venn diagram of GQ's readership base and readers who frequently purchase big2 comics from the direct market, I'd be curious to see how much overlap there is. GQ is going to try to produce an article that features a list that will resonate with their readership, not one that resonates with the veteran comic book fan whose tastes in comics are pretty much already established. Rolling Stone too is creating a list that would resonate with its readership, and Wizard definitely was as well. They just have different readership bases. All the lists are subjective, which one resonates with you is simply a matter of which one strikes closest to your personal bias where comics is concerned. Doesn't make the other lists less valid or relevant, just afield from where your tastes lie. -M
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Post by coke & comics on Feb 6, 2016 15:58:43 GMT -5
Now the "Rolling Stone" list is an example of abusing the term "Graphic Novel". Usagi Yojimbo? Hark a Vagrant? Saga? Sex Criminals? No definition gets them there. The article should have been titled "50 best non-superhero comics".
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 16:18:04 GMT -5
Now the "Rolling Stone" list is an example of abusing the term "Graphic Novel". Usagi Yojimbo? Hark a Vagrant? Saga? Sex Criminals? No definition gets them there. The article should have been titled "50 best non-superhero comics". Yet if you walk into a brick and mortar bookstore (not a comic shop) and ask for Saga, the clerk will take you to the Graphic Novel section, not the comic book section and not to the sci-fi/fantasy section which is how the trade dress categorizes it, so abuse or not, the Rolling Stone list reflects how these products are being sold in the marketplace. If you look at Amazon's list of top-selling graphic novels, you will see lots of Vol. 1 of ongoing series collected in trade-and well when Saga is complete and it's told it's entire story, if it's collected into one giant omnibus or say a trilogy of omnibus (to parallel LOTR) that tell a complete long form fictional story-would that then be a novel? If we are going to allow for individual comics collected into a another format to be considered a novel despite original format, shouldn't we allow for a series of trades that form a complete story to be considered a novel if the final completed opus meets the requirements of a novel? Saga is an incomplete story because it is still in the process of being told, much like David Copperfield was when only some of the installments had been published as a serial in the newspapers. In one sense I think the market has defined what a graphic novel is for the mass audience already (and it's not the definition we are bandying about here), and I am pretty sure that ship has sailed and won't be coming back, so the way the Rolling Stone list uses graphic novel is correct in its own way considering that. I don't like that definition, and even though I am happy to discuss what the definition should be, I cannot deny what the definition means in the marketplace right now and know that whatever consensus we may come to here, it is not how the term is being used in the marketplace, and that definition will be the dominant one. -M
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Feb 6, 2016 18:02:53 GMT -5
Wow, that GQ list is trying way to hard... I've never heard of most of them, and those that I have are not anything I'd even THINK about putting on such a list... especially since quite a few of them are simply the first volumes of long running series. Where you see them trying to hard, I see them trying to find stuff that will appeal to a mass audience, i.e. their audience and not to the hardcore niche of direct market comic book buyers many of whom support super-hero comics and nothing else. They are looking at stuff that might appeal to readers not brought up on comic books and not enculturated by mainstream super-hero comics. Sure there is some mainstream big 2 stuff on their list, but they range afield because the mass audience has a much broader spectrum of tastes than the direct market super-hero buying customer base. If you did a Venn diagram of GQ's readership base and readers who frequently purchase big2 comics from the direct market, I'd be curious to see how much overlap there is. GQ is going to try to produce an article that features a list that will resonate with their readership, not one that resonates with the veteran comic book fan whose tastes in comics are pretty much already established. There's nothing I strenuously object too, but it's clear that whoever did the GQ list was a weekly comic shop kind of guy - I count what? four entries on the list that were not serialized elsewhere*. And 15 are post 2000 with the other 5 being post 1990*, with exactly one Japanese comics and.... one originally-published-in-Europe book. Either leave 'em off or expand your selection. Tokenism is bad. Also two Grant Morrison books, NOBODY ELSE IN THE WORLD will think that Fell is the best of Warren Ellis, I can't imagine starting Concrete with the Odds and Sods collection... and I don't trust any list where I have read all the entries. C +. * Give or take one. I'm not 100% sure what was serialized where and when stuff was released, and I'm damn sure not doing any research.
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Post by Rob Allen on Feb 10, 2016 18:44:07 GMT -5
This site might be useful for this event, and after: rustystaples.com/"Welcome to the Slings and Arrows Graphic Novel review site. This is the largest site dedicated solely to graphic novel reviews to be found online. In time we aim to cover every graphic novel ever published in the English language, but our launch selection already encompasses over 2500 titles, and is increasing every day. Content is searchable by creator, title, publisher or category."
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Feb 18, 2016 13:53:24 GMT -5
Wow, that GQ list is trying way to hard... I've never heard of most of them, and those that I have are not anything I'd even THINK about putting on such a list... especially since quite a few of them are simply the first volumes of long running series. Where you see them trying to hard, I see them trying to find stuff that will appeal to a mass audience, i.e. their audience and not to the hardcore niche of direct market comic book buyers many of whom support super-hero comics and nothing else. They are looking at stuff that might appeal to readers not brought up on comic books and not enculturated by mainstream super-hero comics. Sure there is some mainstream big 2 stuff on their list, but they range afield because the mass audience has a much broader spectrum of tastes than the direct market super-hero buying customer base. If you did a Venn diagram of GQ's readership base and readers who frequently purchase big2 comics from the direct market, I'd be curious to see how much overlap there is. GQ is going to try to produce an article that features a list that will resonate with their readership, not one that resonates with the veteran comic book fan whose tastes in comics are pretty much already established. -M I've never ever read GQ magazine but I own every single one of the 20 mentioned comics but that last one, Tekken... Did'nt find it that obscure as all those comics have either gooten wide mainstream recognition or awards.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Mar 3, 2016 11:43:13 GMT -5
Fax from Sarajevo by Kubert is a must, and I'd probably say Contract with God(and its sequels) would get the number two spot...but I'm torn on the third. I'd say either Enemy Ace: War Idyll by George Pratt, Tintin: The Crab with the Golden Claws by Herge, The Last Temptation by Gaiman and Alice Cooper and The Midnight Circus by Mike Mignola are all tied for that last spot.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,864
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Post by shaxper on Mar 3, 2016 12:24:43 GMT -5
Fax from Sarajevo by Kubert is a must, and I'd probably say Contract with God(and its sequels) would get the number two spot...but I'm torn on the third. I'd say either Enemy Ace: War Idyll by George Pratt, Tintin: The Crab with the Golden Claws by Herge, The Last Temptation by Gaiman and Alice Cooper and The Midnight Circus by Mike Mignola are all tied for that last spot. Wow. I've read exactly one of these.
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