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Post by Reptisaurus! on Feb 11, 2016 16:11:52 GMT -5
I suspect the romance comics guys thought shame was the most useful teaching tool in molding their young readers into proper moral young ladies, whatever the hell that meant at any given time. It meant molding their ladies into good breeders, shit-takers, and man-pleasers. Seriously. It's in every story. Because every woman's goal in life should be to drop everything she might want to do with her own life, and fall in love with a man in three weeks, marry, and REPRODUCE. It obviously worked well at the time, but I'm kind of glad we have seemed to, mostly, move away from that "place" for women in society. Not that there is anything wrong with a woman who is a housewife, but I'm glad she has more of a choice now-a-days. Yeah - Some of the superhero and (especially) the war books seemed to, rarely, be kind of culturally subversive - You read the Golden Age Wonder Woman, right? Marston's philosophy was nutty, but at least it felt pro-woman-as-more-than-decoration. I'm not an expert on romance comics but I did just read a book about their history and it didn't say that there was much of anything empowering about romance comics at all.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 11, 2016 16:37:50 GMT -5
I have never read romance comics, but I read a LOT of pulps from the Teens through the 60s. I think part of what you're seeing also shows up in the pulps as the "love at first sight" thing. Edgar Rice Burroughs was really bad about this, but it cut across writers and across pulp genres. The protagonist and the female lead always fell instantly in love, if it wasn't apparent to the other, it was made readily apparent to the reader. I think there are a number of factors causing it. Partly it's lazy writing. Partly it's short-hand when you're dealing with a limited page count. Partly it's looking through the romanticized way the period viewed love and marriage. But it can be very jarring if you're not used to it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 17:07:09 GMT -5
Yeah - Some of the superhero and (especially) the war books seemed to, rarely, be kind of culturally subversive - You read the Golden Age Wonder Woman, right? Marston's philosophy was nutty, but at least it felt pro-woman-as-more-than-decoration. I'm not an expert on romance comics but I did just read a book about their history and it didn't say that there was much of anything empowering about romance comics at all. Yeah, I didn't expect there to be ANYTHING empowering about romance comics. I pretty much went into reading them for that very reason. I found their lack of female empowerment interesting and quite ridiculous. But I am aware that it was not like it is today. So, it's not like I started reading romance comics expecting women's roles to be what they often are today in society. I mean, women work in the stories, but they often quit their jobs as soon as they fall in love. I have never read romance comics, but I read a LOT of pulps from the Teens through the 60s. I think part of what you're seeing also shows up in the pulps as the "love at first sight" thing. Edgar Rice Burroughs was really bad about this, but it cut across writers and across pulp genres. The protagonist and the female lead always fell instantly in love, if it wasn't apparent to the other, it was made readily apparent to the reader. I think there are a number of factors causing it. Partly it's lazy writing. Partly it's short-hand when you're dealing with a limited page count. Partly it's looking through the romanticized way the period viewed love and marriage. But it can be very jarring if you're not used to it. Yessssss. And it's all very interesting to me. I only come off as complaining because, well, it IS absurd the way women were and were treated in the stories back then, but I also have a complete understanding that it was the times, and that it's not like it is now. And I do find most of the stories very funny because of these things.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 12, 2016 6:43:01 GMT -5
It would be interesting to see what type of romance comics would be written in 2016 as opposed to the 50's. Or can there even BE romance books in this oversexed age.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Feb 12, 2016 6:51:27 GMT -5
And, man, why does everyone want to marry three weeks into their relationships?! 'Cause they only have 10 pages! Or they're strict Christians, desperate to get it on without upsetting the man upstairs. Edit: I've seen this happen a few times with Christian friends of mine and, in fact, a Christian couple that I know have just this week announced their engagement after only two months together! That just seems crazy to me. I feel like saying to them, "I'm pretty sure that if your God loves you he would rather you just sneakily made the 'beast with two backs' once in a while, rather than ending up trapped in an awful, loveless marriage a few years down the line, just because you couldn't wait to get jiggy wit it."
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2016 6:59:43 GMT -5
It would be interesting to see what type of romance comics would be written in 2016 as opposed to the 50's. Or can there even BE romance books in this oversexed age. Was just thinking about this last night. Romance comics today would be a MESS. A great mess, but a mess.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Feb 12, 2016 7:01:30 GMT -5
It would be interesting to see what type of romance comics would be written in 2016 as opposed to the 50's. Or can there even BE romance books in this oversexed age. Was just thinking about this last night. Romance comics today would be a MESS. A great mess, but a mess. They'd probably just be countless repeating panels of smart phone screens and x-rated sexting.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2016 7:13:52 GMT -5
Was just thinking about this last night. Romance comics today would be a MESS. A great mess, but a mess. They'd probably just be countless repeating panels of smart phone screens and x-rated sexting. It would be soooo gross. So gross.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 12, 2016 7:28:51 GMT -5
This age doesn't lend itself to romance, just sex. Now, get off my lawn.
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Post by The Captain on Feb 12, 2016 8:02:37 GMT -5
'Cause they only have 10 pages! Or they're strict Christians, desperate to get it on without upsetting the man upstairs. Edit: I've seen this happen a few times with Christian friends of mine and, in fact, a Christian couple that I know have just this week announced their engagement after only two months together! That just seems crazy to me. I feel like saying to them, "I'm pretty sure that if your God loves you he would rather you just sneakily made the 'beast with two backs' once in a while, rather than ending up trapped in an awful, loveless marriage a few years down the line, just because you couldn't wait to get jiggy wit it." Let me play devil's advocate here. Those Christians may feel that their finding that person and any immediate connection they feel with said person is divinely directed, and they do not want to thwart what they believe to be God's will and His plan for their life. It doesn't necessarily make sense to non-believers (or even to other believers), but it is a real consideration in the minds of some Christians. For myself, I knew I had a real connection with my wife within the first couple of months of our dating, and I was starting to plan my proposal within six months. We got engaged 11 months into our relationship and were married just over two years after our first date. At the time, my faith was immature (I'd been away from the church for over a decade and had just started attending worship regularly again), so I wasn't looking for or seeing God's hand in what was happening, but as I look back now, I see all of things that had to fall into place just right for the relationship to even come to be and I now recognize it as what His plan was for me. Again, I know that this type of thing may not make any sense to folks who aren't believers. However, it is what I believe happened in my life, and I would bet it is how many others view it in their lives.
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Post by MDG on Feb 12, 2016 9:10:36 GMT -5
This age doesn't lend itself to romance, just sex. Now, get off my lawn. Depends what you mean by Romance comics. Certainly some things Los Bros Hernandez fit the category, or at least get awfully close. There are probably other things that do as well. But, in general, there aren't many genre comics without continuing characters out there--at least from the big two.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Feb 12, 2016 10:21:07 GMT -5
Or they're strict Christians, desperate to get it on without upsetting the man upstairs. Edit: I've seen this happen a few times with Christian friends of mine and, in fact, a Christian couple that I know have just this week announced their engagement after only two months together! That just seems crazy to me. I feel like saying to them, "I'm pretty sure that if your God loves you he would rather you just sneakily made the 'beast with two backs' once in a while, rather than ending up trapped in an awful, loveless marriage a few years down the line, just because you couldn't wait to get jiggy wit it." Let me play devil's advocate here. Those Christians may feel that their finding that person and any immediate connection they feel with said person is divinely directed, and they do not want to thwart what they believe to be God's will and His plan for their life. It doesn't necessarily make sense to non-believers (or even to other believers), but it is a real consideration in the minds of some Christians. For myself, I knew I had a real connection with my wife within the first couple of months of our dating, and I was starting to plan my proposal within six months. We got engaged 11 months into our relationship and were married just over two years after our first date. At the time, my faith was immature (I'd been away from the church for over a decade and had just started attending worship regularly again), so I wasn't looking for or seeing God's hand in what was happening, but as I look back now, I see all of things that had to fall into place just right for the relationship to even come to be and I now recognize it as what His plan was for me. Again, I know that this type of thing may not make any sense to folks who aren't believers. However, it is what I believe happened in my life, and I would bet it is how many others view it in their lives. Oh yeah, I totally get that some believers might see their meeting and falling in love as divinely guided or ordained. And I also totally understand and greatly respect a Christian couple's desire to abstain from sexual intercourse in order to follow the word of God (although I do have a problem with those that seem happy to do EVERYTHING in the bedroom except full penetrative sex as some kind of "dodge" or workaround of what is written in the Bible, but that's a topic for anther discussion). But I guess to a non-believer like me, it just seems unnecessarily risky. Lust and/or love is easy, but relationships can be hard. I think it's important to be certain about who you're marrying before you commit. Plus, for all the Christians like yourself who genuinely feel that your marriage partner was chosen for you by God, there are, I believe, a fair number of Christians who simply get married so that they can get their leg over, while still following the Bible's teachings, rather than because they feel it's God's will for them to be joined in holy matrimony. Maybe I'm just cynical though.
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 12, 2016 10:44:18 GMT -5
'Cause they only have 10 pages! Or they're strict Christians, desperate to get it on without upsetting the man upstairs. Edit: I've seen this happen a few times with Christian friends of mine and, in fact, a Christian couple that I know have just this week announced their engagement after only two months together! That just seems crazy to me. I feel like saying to them, "I'm pretty sure that if your God loves you he would rather you just sneakily made the 'beast with two backs' once in a while, rather than ending up trapped in an awful, loveless marriage a few years down the line, just because you couldn't wait to get jiggy wit it." I caught that excellent Othello reference, Confessor. Well played! And, I have to say that you're so on with many young Christian couples. Married very young, large families very quickly. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I wonder what it bodes.
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Post by Rob Allen on Feb 12, 2016 11:56:57 GMT -5
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Post by MDG on Feb 12, 2016 12:49:34 GMT -5
A lot of these seem less "romance comics" than "comics with a romance subplot." But then, I don't know that the term's been defined.
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