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Post by The Captain on Jan 2, 2017 17:27:42 GMT -5
Thanks to all for the positive reception for the return of my review thread! I'm hoping I can live up to expectations and provide something at least halfway interesting for you to read. To keep the momentum going, I decided to post again this week, both because I have some time (it's my wife's turn to cook dinner) and because I need to deal with something a little lighter after watching a couple of episodes of Jessica Jones earlier this afternoon. Tales of Suspense #82 "The Maddening Mystery of the Inconceivable Adaptoid" Writer: Stan Lee Artist: Jack Kirby (pencils) and Frank Giacoia (inks) Cover Date: October 1966 SynopsisCap sits in Avengers Mansion, looking through a photo album and reminiscing about his time with Bucky, both in WWII and in its aftermath. Jarvis interrupts him with a tray of coffee and has a brief conversation before Steve heads off to check the premises; Steve notes that he thinks he's just bored, but that he has actually feels tired, a feeling unfamiliar to him. Entering a secret passage, he hears footsteps and goes to investigate, only to run into an intruder, the long-thought dead Agent Axis, one of his WWII enemies. He throws a punch, but Agent Axis disappears, causing Cap to question his health further; as he does, another of his enemies, Fang the Warlord, appears on the TV scanner. Cap is beset by all manner of physical and auditory hallucinations from his past, culminating in his finding himself back in the war, once again fighting alongside Bucky against the Nazis; this lasts for a few minutes, until Cap finds himself back in the real world. Making his way upstairs, Cap sees Sgt. Duffy, his old CO, marching troops through the hallway. Becoming dizzy and falling, Cap is caught by Quicksilver before he hits the floor, and both Pietro and Wanda tend to him; however, this is another hallucination, as he finds it was actually Jarvis who caught him just before he loses consciousness. In an interlude from the main story, a team of S.H.I.E.L.D. agents finds a destroyed A.I.M. installment where they find Count Bornag Royale (last seen in this series in issue #79, although he had appeared since then in a handful of issues of Strange Tales). injured and mumbling about something called "the adaptoid". Back at Avengers Mansion, Jarvis places Cap on a bed, then remarks that he is amazed at Cap's physical condition, as it took longer than anticipated for the hypno-sedative he put in Cap's coffee to work. Going to the closet, Jarvis opens the door to reveal another Jarvis unconscious on the floor. Bathed in shimmering energy, the standing Jarvis transforms into the creature that Count Regalo was speaking of, a "thinking pantograph, capable of making exact copies by literally tracing from the living original". Turning his eye beam onto the prone Cap, the Adaptoid copies the hero, then picks up Cap's shield and leaves to begin its mission... Continuity IssuesWhen the Adaptoid, disguised as Jarvis, delivers the drugged coffee to Cap, he remarks that Cap is "lost in his memories again". As it appears that is just arrived and took Jarvis' form, how would it know if this was something that happened regularly? My ThoughtsAfter seemingly escaping the SSAS (Silly Silver-Age Science) of the Cosmic Cube with the end of last issue, the evil beekeepers are up to it again, creating a being that can somehow transform itself by running its eye beam over a living person to make a copy. There's no explanation for how this works, so we're just supposed to accept that it does and move on. As I wrote with the Cosmic Cube, this type of thing might play in the DC Silver Age or even over in Fantastic Four, but it's painfully out of place here; Cap should be dealing with spies and saboteurs and Nazis, not with things that not even Stan and Jack can make sense of. As for the story, it's not terribly good, as Cap is essentially a victim the entire story. He's out of control due to the drugging by the Adaptoid, and while getting to see some of his memories is interesting, having the hero of the story be completely helpless and not actually accomplish anything is pretty depressing. My Grade: C- Not a good effort, particularly on the heels of last issue's climactic confrontation with the Red Skull. The villain is not what one would expect for a Captain America book, and Cap is just along for the ride. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 2, 2017 20:59:38 GMT -5
I remember being disappointed that Cap was drugged when the reveal happened.. him having PTSD would have been a much better story.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 2, 2017 21:29:10 GMT -5
I remember being disappointed that Cap was drugged when the reveal happened.. him having PTSD would have been a much better story. As a WWII vet Cap would have to have "battle fatigue". |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,201 
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Post by Confessor on Jan 3, 2017 6:36:30 GMT -5
I used to try to limit my synopses to a single run-on sentence. That proved unworkable, so now I try to keep it down to one paragraph. I agree that it's the portion I'm always least interested in writing. I probably go overboard on the synopses on my Marvel reviews (on the odd occasion they show up). But I try to ramp up the humor. Successfully so, if I recall. Your Marvel reviews were always fun to read. You should get back onto that. |
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Post by The Captain on Jan 3, 2017 7:12:46 GMT -5
I remember being disappointed that Cap was drugged when the reveal happened.. him having PTSD would have been a much better story. The other big thing that bothers me about this issue is how the Adaptoid acts. It perfectly mimics Jarvis' behavior to the point that Cap can't tell anything is amiss (although he is distracted at first, then drugged later on). As well, at the end of the story, the Adaptoid has a human-like inner monologue about its activities that makes no sense for a synthetic being or whatever it is. I get what Stan was going for, but this is serious AI kind of stuff, beyond what Hank or Tony or even Reed were doing. It just comes off as a little odd that A.I.M. was able to pull this type of tech off long before anyone else had, even the supposed "big brains" of the MU. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,201
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Post by Confessor on Jan 3, 2017 9:36:51 GMT -5
I remember being disappointed that Cap was drugged when the reveal happened.. him having PTSD would have been a much better story. The other big thing that bothers me about this issue is how the Adaptoid acts. It perfectly mimics Jarvis' behavior to the point that Cap can't tell anything is amiss (although he is distracted at first, then drugged later on). As well, at the end of the story, the Adaptoid has a human-like inner monologue about its activities that makes no sense for a synthetic being or whatever it is. I get what Stan was going for, but this is serious AI kind of stuff, beyond what Hank or Tony or even Reed were doing. It just comes off as a little odd that A.I.M. was able to pull this type of tech off long before anyone else had, even the supposed "big brains" of the MU. S.H.E.I.L.D. were using Life Model Decoy's that could mimic a person as closely as the adaptoid does here at the same time that this issue came out. I guess those are essentially remote controlled androids, rather than the AI demonstrated here, but still, the adaptoid doesn't strike me as being incongruous with the tech available in the Marvel Universe at this point. I remember really enjoying this issue quite a bit when I last read it and would probably rate it a bit higher than you. I get that not very much really happens, but seeing Cap being visited by frightening visions of Bucky, Agent Axis and others from his past was entertaining, although I agree with you that it would've been more interesting to have had Cap suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. But still, the fact that Cap is victim throughout this issue is a nice change of pace, I think. |
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Post by The Captain on Jan 3, 2017 9:47:12 GMT -5
The other big thing that bothers me about this issue is how the Adaptoid acts. It perfectly mimics Jarvis' behavior to the point that Cap can't tell anything is amiss (although he is distracted at first, then drugged later on). As well, at the end of the story, the Adaptoid has a human-like inner monologue about its activities that makes no sense for a synthetic being or whatever it is. I get what Stan was going for, but this is serious AI kind of stuff, beyond what Hank or Tony or even Reed were doing. It just comes off as a little odd that A.I.M. was able to pull this type of tech off long before anyone else had, even the supposed "big brains" of the MU. S.H.E.I.L.D. were using Life Model Decoy's that could mimic a person as closely as the adaptoid does here at the same time that this issue came out. I guess those are essentially remote controlled androids, rather than the AI demonstrated here, but still, the adaptoid doesn't strike me as being incongruous with the tech available in the Marvel Universe at this point. I remember really enjoying this issue quite a bit when I last read it and would probably rate it a bit higher than you. I get that not very much really happens, but seeing Cap being visited by frightening visions of Bucky, Agent Axis and others from his past was entertaining, although I agree with you that it would've been more interesting to have had Cap suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. But still, the fact that Cap is victim throughout this issue is a nice change of pace, I think. Interesting. I have not read much Strange Tales from this era, so I didn't know exactly when the LMDs were put into full use. It makes more sense now. Thanks. |
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 3, 2017 10:55:07 GMT -5
My ThoughtsAfter seemingly escaping the SSAS (Silly Silver-Age Science) of the Cosmic Cube with the end of last issue, the evil beekeepers are up to it again, creating a being that can somehow transform itself by running its eye beam over a living person to make a copy. There's no explanation for how this works, so we're just supposed to accept that it does and move on. As I wrote with the Cosmic Cube, this type of thing might play in the DC Silver Age or even over in Fantastic Four, but it's painfully out of place here; Cap should be dealing with spies and saboteurs and Nazis, not with things that not even Stan and Jack can make sense of. Curious...why? Cap was not limited to spies, Nazis and other WW2 type villains even in the Timely/Atlas years. Once he returned in the Silver Age, and became an Avenger, there's no reason he would not be fully engaged in conflicts with new villains/organizations that took full advantage of the Cold War technology boom (intensified through comic book fantasy) during the years he was in suspended animation. I've never viewed comics as being chained to scientific accuracy/plausibility (a problem the Star Trek franchise wrestles with to this day), for if that were the case, nearly every comic book hero and villain would cease to exist (think Flash, the Hulk, the Doom Patrol the F.F., Ant Man/Giant Man/Yellowjacket, most of anything used by A.I.M., S.H.I.E.L.D., et al) because there's no real world explanation for their powers and/or technological advantages. Cap--being as versatile as he's said to be--was able to successfully blend in with the sci-fi influenced, larger than life threats that defined most of the Silver Age at Marvel. |
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Post by The Captain on Jan 3, 2017 19:32:44 GMT -5
My ThoughtsAfter seemingly escaping the SSAS (Silly Silver-Age Science) of the Cosmic Cube with the end of last issue, the evil beekeepers are up to it again, creating a being that can somehow transform itself by running its eye beam over a living person to make a copy. There's no explanation for how this works, so we're just supposed to accept that it does and move on. As I wrote with the Cosmic Cube, this type of thing might play in the DC Silver Age or even over in Fantastic Four, but it's painfully out of place here; Cap should be dealing with spies and saboteurs and Nazis, not with things that not even Stan and Jack can make sense of. Curious...why? Cap was not limited to spies, Nazis and other WW2 type villains even in the Timely/Atlas years. Once he returned in the Silver Age, and became an Avenger, there's no reason he would not be fully engaged in conflicts with new villains/organizations that took full advantage of the Cold War technology boom (intensified through comic book fantasy) during the years he was in suspended animation. I've never viewed comics as being chained to scientific accuracy/plausibility (a problem the Star Trek franchise wrestles with to this day), for if that were the case, nearly every comic book hero and villain would cease to exist (think Flash, the Hulk, the Doom Patrol the F.F., Ant Man/Giant Man/Yellowjacket, most of anything used by A.I.M., S.H.I.E.L.D., et al) because there's no real world explanation for their powers and/or technological advantages. Cap--being as versatile as he's said to be--was able to successfully blend in with the sci-fi influenced, larger than life threats that defined most of the Silver Age at Marvel. That's a fair question. I've always felt that Cap is closer to a street-level hero, more akin to Daredevil, than he is to the big guns of the MU. He was fit into the Avengers because of his name and he could seem to hold his own due to his indomitable spirit and inspirational leadership, but he's painfully outclassed in terms of sheer power when compared next to Iron Man or Thor. When threats such as an Adaptoid or Ultron or some other technologically-spawned super-powered adversary rise up, while Cap can help rally the troops and lead them into the battle, he's just not in the same weight class. He brings no technological expertise to the table, nor does he really have the strength to contend with the threat in a physical manner, which is why I feel he is more effectively-written when he is facing foes that are closer in skill and strength, such as Batroc or the Red Skull. I think the bigger problem for me in regard to Cap tangling with A.I.M. and the like is not that they aren't spies, saboteurs or Nazis, but rather that the technology is too out there. I have no problem suspending my disbelief to an extent, but things like the Cosmic Cube are just fantastical that they really ruin my ability to immerse myself in the story. I feel this way about a lot of Silver Age works, which wanted to explore science and the future of technology, but they just made it up as they went along without any sort of grounding in reality. For my purposes, Stan Lee didn't have to describe in full detail how something worked, but it would have been nice if what he was creating had at least one foot in this world. Regardless, thanks for reading my reviews, and please keep participating in the thread as you feel led. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 3, 2017 22:22:43 GMT -5
The odds are quite good that both the Cosmic Cube and the Adaptoid were Kirby ideas that Lee had to make work. Jack never let technical credibility hinder his imagination (and Stan, as editor, would've been an idiot to try to hold him back).
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Post by The Captain on Jan 8, 2017 14:31:28 GMT -5
Tales of Suspense #83 "Enter...The Tumbler" Writer: Stan Lee Artist: Jack Kirby and Dick Ayers Cover Date: November 1966 SynopsisAs the Adaptoid, now in the form of Captain America, goes to leave Avengers Mansion, the window in front of it shatters and a purple-clad intruder bursts through, announcing himself as The Tumbler. Intent on proving his skills against the famed Captain America, he attacks, unaware his true target is unconscious in the next room and he is battling the Adaptoid. They fight for a little while until Capdaptoid calls an end to their struggle so that it can continue on its still-unrevealed mission, but The Tumbler refuses to cede and presses the attack, eventually knocking Capdaptoid down and securing Cap's shield, thinking he has bested the real Captain America. This leads to monologuing by The Tumbler where he explains his background and his motivation. Finishing his tale, he whips the shield at Capdaptoid, who dodges it and then reveals it is not the real Captain America, leaving The Tumbler confused; their fight resumes, and The Tumbler again gains advantage, frustrating the Capdaptoid, who doesn't understand why it is unable to beat this foe. In the next room, Steve comes to, only to find himself bound hand and foot, but he quickly maneuvers himself free. Elsewhere, the battle between The Tumbler and Capdaptoid continues, with The Tumbler lifting his opponent above his head and throwing it through a nearby door (probably, although it might be a wall, as the art is not completely clear). Taking a moment to savor his apparent victory, The Tumbler is shocked when Cap bursts through the door, seemingly unfazed by the throw, which he is because this is the real thing. They fight, and The Tumbler throws the shield at Cap, who catches it mid-air and fires it back, which causes The Tumbler to attempt to flee; Cap catches up to him and they battle on, until Cap finally knocks him out and ties him up for the police. After the police leave, Cap and a now-conscious Jarvis carry the Capdaptoid to the lab analysis room, tying it up and leaving it unguarded on a table. As they leave, the Adaptoid changes back to its basic form and begins to formulate a new plan to kill Captain America. Continuity Issues: None. My ThoughtsAfter the relative lack of action last issue, this one was wall-to-wall, non-stop fighting. In anyone else's hands but Jack Kirby's, that could be a recipe for disaster, but his ability to craft a fight scene that conveys fluidity and movement is just so great as to make the intense action work for an entire story. The concept of The Tumbler being just a regular guy that trained himself to peak performance is interesting, as is his taking inspiration from Cap himself, holding Steve up as his "role model" as it were and then, after all of the training, seeking to test himself against Cap. I didn't like how easily The Tumbler was able to break into Avengers Mansion, although with both Cap and Jarvis incapacitated and no one on watch, I guess it makes sense. Additionally, he was a little too good at slinging the shield, but that's a minor quibble. As well, it was interesting to see the Adaptoid struggle against The Tumbler, but I had a problem with the idea that the Adaptoid was becoming frustrated by his inability to defeat a regular, albeit highly-trained, human. Additionally, the end of the issue left me a little flat, with the Adaptoid thinking about its growth in knowledge and skill and how it works on formulating a new plan to destroy Steve. As I remarked in my last review, I have an issue with the concept that the Adaptoid has the ability to think and plan on its own, separate from any programming; while S.H.I.E.L.D.'s LMDs may have been incredibly lifelike, they were not capable of true emotions (like frustration) or complex thought, and here we have something acting in very human ways that it should not have the ability to do so. My Grade: C+ I'm still having issues with the whole idea of the Adaptoid thinking and planning on its own, and even though the real Captain America spent 70% of this issues off-panel and tied up, Kirby's mastery of the fight scene raised this issue's grade above the previous installment.
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 16, 2017 21:44:35 GMT -5
Tales of Suspense #83 As I remarked in my last review, I have an issue with the concept that the Adaptoid has the ability to think and plan on its own, separate from any programming; while S.H.I.E.L.D.'s LMDs may have been incredibly lifelike, they were not capable of true emotions (like frustration) or complex thought, and here we have something acting in very human ways that it should not have the ability to do so. My Grade: C+ I'm still having issues with the whole idea of the Adaptoid thinking and planning on its own, and even though the real Captain America spent 70% of this issues off-panel and tied up, Kirby's mastery of the fight scene raised this issue's grade above the previous installment. I believe at this point in Marvel history, Lee was paying attention to (borrowing) filmed science fiction's then-oft used concept of androids / robots having programming advanced enough to begin to learn to either think independently as a matter or survival (as in Star Trek's "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" from October of 1966) or develop emotions such as love ( The Twilight Zone's "The Lonely"). It was an increasingly popular concept in filmed sci-fi, so like much of Silver Age Marvel science, I'm guessing this explains much of the Adaptoid's behavior. Still, Cap dealing with a science/terror organization and other espionage plots was right up his alley, as much as the larger superhero dramas played out in The Avengers. |
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Post by The Captain on Feb 19, 2017 16:55:25 GMT -5
Tales of Suspense #84 "The Super-Adaptoid" Writer: Stan Lee Art: Jack Kirby and Frank Giacoia Cover Date: December 1966 SynopsisFlanked by Hawkeye, Wasp, and Giant-Man, Cap leads the group to the lab analysis room to see the Adaptoid. Hawkeye wonders if it might be the Space Phantom, but Cap lets him know this is no alien but a man-made menace from Earth. They enter the lab to find the Adaptoid still bound on the table where Cap and Jarvis left it last issue, but all of them have other work to do before they can examine it, so Cap says he will stay and guard it until they return. Unbeknownst to the hereoes, the Adaptoid used his scanning ability to adapt their powers while they stood there talking. Outside on the terrace, Cap retreats into his memories, once again thinking about how he is a "man out of time", but he also realizes he has a purpose to serve in this era. Hearing something behind him, he turns just in time to deflect an arrow that had been fired not by Hawkeye but by a larger version of the Adaptoid he previously fought. It explains how it came to be, how it acquired the characteristics of his fellow Avengers, and how it has renamed itself the Super-Adaptoid. Cap presses the early attack, but he is swatted away easily into a nearby wall; the Super-Adaptoid grabs him and shoves Cap face-first into the brick wall, pressing him to surrender. Refusing to yield, Cap slips free and lands a couple of blows before once again being tossed aside to the floor. Grabbing Cap off the floor, the Super-Adaptoid flies skyward, carrying Cap with it, but in mid-flight, Cap manages to grab hold of its wings, causing them both to plummet earthward; they are spared from certain death, however, when the Super-Adaptoid grabs hold of a nearby bridge. Breaking free, Cap starts to climb the bridge, only to find himself hanging on for his life as the Super-Adaptoid begins to tear the bridge apart. Swinging the girder that Cap was hanging onto to, the Super-Adaptoid sends the hero soaring across the water in a frantic freefall. As he approaches the water, Cap tucks into a ball to cushion the impact just before he slams into the water. Believing Cap to be dead once and for all, the Super-Adaptoid climbs to the top of the bridge, awaiting direction from its AIM creators. When no orders are forthcoming, it decides it will set its own course in the world, so it flies off to find a safe place to hide in an effort to ensure its freedom, unaware that in the river below, Cap made his way to the surface, alive to fight another day. Continuity Issues: None identified. My ThoughtsAnother action-packed issue, this worked about as well as last issue. There was no character development outside of one panel of Cap lamenting his current situation in a time that was not his own. The action moves fluidly in the hands of Kirby and Giacoia, but that's all there is, which is sort of unsatisfying. As well, the Super-Adaptoid is confusing. It is a robot created by AIM, but it displays an amazing amount of self-awareness for a mechanical construct. In one panel, it is waiting atop the bridge for orders to come to it from its creators, but in the next, after it receives no such orders, it actually has the following internal monologue: "Have I now out-lived my value to them? Having done what I was created to do, can it be that they intend to destroy me? I have seen this happen to other artificial devices which succeeded in serving their purpose?" That is incredibly deep thinking about meaning and purpose for a robot, even one as advanced as the Super-Adaptoid is supposed to be? As I wrote with my review of last issue, it's bothersome to me, and while tarkentino makes good points about this type of concept being prevalent in science fiction at the time and the probable influence on Stan's writing, it still doesn't make a good story for me. My Grade: C Another fight-heavy, head-scratching science fiction laden issue, but with the ending, it looks like this might be the last we see of the Super-Adaptoid for a while, which is fine with me.
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Post by The Captain on Feb 21, 2017 17:46:59 GMT -5
Tales of Suspense #85
 "The Blitzkrieg of Batroc" Writer: Stan Lee Art: Jack Kirby and Frank Giacoia Cover Date: January 1967 SynopsisFollowing a message he received concerning the whereabouts of Agent 13, Cap makes his way into the convalescent home where she is staying, certain he is walking into a trap. He's right about that, as he is watched by two Hydra agents, although they do not attack, instead following orders and allowing Cap to proceed, orders given by the man who delivered Agent 13 to them, the man known as Batroc. A trap door opens under Cap and he falls, only to be immediately attacked by Batroc. They trade blows, lots of blows, as they are watched through a slot in the wall by the two Hydra agents. One of the agents wants to shoot Cap and be done with it, but his partner reminds him they have to follow orders. They go to check on Agent 13, who is distraught to learn that her imprisonment has led to Cap being put into danger; however, she is also intrigued that Cap has come to fight for and save her. The fight between Batroc and Cap rages on, and just as Cap presses Batroc to surrender, the Frenchman warns Cap of danger behind him in the form of the two Hydra agents; they shoot at Cap, but he blocks their bullets easily with his shield. Batroc, incensed they did not follow orders, attacks the Hydra agents, who are soon joined by three of their comrades. Cap catches them off-guard with a shield throw, and both he and Batroc flee, heading off to find Agent 13. Cap worries that she has been harmed, but Batroc assures him that if she has been, he will deal with the Hydra agents accordingly. Approaching the room where Agent 13 is being held, Batroc knocks on the door and tells the Hydra guards that Cap has escaped. When they open the door, Batroc and Cap each punch one guard, then enter the room where Cap frees Agent 13 as Batroc moves the unconscious agents. Batroc then declares this meeting over, promising they will battle again without interference; before leaping from the window, he assures Agent 13 that he meant her no harm. Cap and Agent 13 watch Batroc flee, and Agent 13 thinks to herself that she cannot hate Batroc, for he brought her and Cap together again. Continuity Issues: None My ThoughtsFollowing the last two issues with the Adaptoid/Super-Adaptoid, it was nice to get back to Cap fighting in his own weight class again. Under Kirby's pencils, the fight between Cap and Batroc flows so smoothly, including one nine-panel page that has no dialogue, just a small caption, at the top and the bottom, alerting the readers that Stan was going to shut up and let Jack do his thing. I find Batroc to be fascinating, as he's not some psychopath bent on world domination or the like. He just wants a rematch against Cap, so he kidnaps Agent 13 (who he knows Cap has some kind of feelings for after their previous encounter in ToS #75 and 76), to prove that he is a better fighter. His code of honor is refreshing too, as he wants it to be a fair fight, and when the Hydra agents interrupt, he dispatches them to ensure that he gets his clean fight. It's sad to see what a joke Batroc became later on, because here, as with his first two appearances, he's evenly matched with Cap and isn't a goofy caricature. My Grade: B: Although this is one extended fight scene for most of the issue, it works in the context of establishing Batroc's ongoing rivalry with Cap. As well, the little movement in the relationship between Steve and Agent 13, who recognizes him as a man who would risk his own life for her, is well done and provides more depth to Steve beyond him whining about being "a man out of time".
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Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 21, 2017 22:14:26 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree.. Batroc from the 60s is a pretty cool bad guy, even if he was a little silver agey. I think they just enjoyed making fun of the accent too much.
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