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Post by spoon on Jan 9, 2016 16:05:55 GMT -5
Justice League #5 and #6 are a curious pair of issues.
JL #5 is a great build-up. When I just re-read it, I thought it was the best issue up to this point. I think this was actually the first issue of this Justice League issue I read back in the day. Unlike a lot of readers who seemed to know the days new comics came out and would keep up with things religiously, when I was a little kid, I always missed out on issues. My collection would be piecemeal.
The art is great. There are some really creative angles taking in various panels and cool ways to portray scenes. I guess the credit for that goes to Keith Giffen, since he did breakdowns. I'm also a sucker for zip-a-tone and the like used as shading. I love how it looks on Dr. Fate's mask.
The "one punch" fight is justly a famous moment. It's not just about Guy and Bats. Giffen and DeMatteis do a great job of bringing various others members into the scene, and using it a lens to see their personality. My favorite is Black Canary's disappointment at missing out on seeing the punch. It's starting to distill the essence of the Giffen/DeMatteis version of Canary. She's an action junkie. She also doesn't want to be seen as a delicate woman in man's world. She wants to be regarding as someone who can hold her own in a fight. We see that in #6, when she's frustrated at being rescued after being thrown in the air.
But #6 is a very strange denouement, as noted in shax's review. In #5, it looks like all the elements are being drawn together for purpose, but #6 leads one wondering what the point was. I think there was a bit of a point, although it's not made quite so explicit. It's when Dr. Fate tells the Gray Man he's been holding back in order to help the Gray Man. In a sense, the battle with the Justice League may have been intended as a test for the Gray Man. The battle gave the Gray Man a chance to see the errors of his ways. When Gray Man went as far as taking out the whole League, Dr. Fate realized that the Gray Man had squandered his last chance and decided to call an end to it.
I'm reading from a TPB which doesn't make clear when a new issue begins, so I think I accidentally read a few pages into #7. Although it's pretty vague, I think it's sort of consistent with that take. I do think the strange end to the story is somewhat consistent with the question of the new League's competence.]
The inclusion of the Creeper is another element introduced in #5 that doesn't seem to pay off in #6. Why was the Creeper interested in going to Vermont? How does this square with suspicious and distaste for the League as Jack Ryder. I haven't read many appearances of the Creeper. This story offers no explanation for the contrast between the wet blanket, law & order Ryder, and the anarchic, nuts Creeper.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2016 16:10:02 GMT -5
Morrison's JLA is my 2nd Favorite Incarnation(s) of the Justice League of America - The 1st is the Satellite Era featuring the 16 of the greatest Superheroes of all time.
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Post by spoon on Jan 9, 2016 16:21:02 GMT -5
Justice League #6 
[snip]Important Details:- Up until now, we knew there'd been a previous Justice League, but this is the first issue to suggest that the extent of the team's legacy is similar to what it was in the Pre-Crisis. Here's Hal Jordan speaking to Maxwell Lord about the team:  - At another point in the issue (though I forgot to photograph it), Batman acknowledges that Martian Manhunter has been a member of the League longer than he has. [snip]
The appearance of Hal Jordan was an interesting moment for me. When this issue came out, I was probably 8 years old and a big Green Lantern fan (particularly Hal). Like Hal, it drove me nuts that a jerk like Guy was in the League. I was glad to see Hal show up, but back then, I wished he would be in the League. I'm not sure Batman's remark was supposed to imply that Martian Manhunter was a member of the League for longer than Batman. He says J'Onn "has been at this game even longer than I have." That could just mean he's been a super-hero or an adventurer for a longer period of time. Also, #6 offers us one more moment for the scorecard of what has and hasn't been rebooted. When Canary notes that Batman last made a joke about 5 years ago, that implies that they both still have long past histories with the League in the post-Crisis world. |
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Post by Action Ace on Jan 9, 2016 21:36:15 GMT -5
Even when the overall quality goes down, there will still be parts that have to be visited., Kyle Baker's Ktrrogarrx! in issue #50 for instance. Most of Breakdowns will be a slog though. As for the rest of the post Giffen/ DeMatteis Justice League era... Justice League: America: Jurgens era is pretty good, but it just gets worse and worse going forward. They were just dragging anyone off the street to be in the team at this point Justice League: Europe: the entire Gerard Jones era is among the worst Justice League titles ever, changes it's title to Justice League International after issue #50, then the creative team moves over to kill JL:A after this title is cancelled Extreme Justice: that cast could have worked in the right hands, but those hands were no where to be found Justice League Task Force: lots of J'onn, some Gypsy, some Despero like you've never seen him before, this is the pick of this bunch Then they all get cancelled in June 1996, JLA: Midsummer's Nightmare comes out in July and the franchise is saved with the best era of JLA in two decades. That is highly debatable. I disagree with virtually everything you've said there (except possibly about the later issues of JLE), particularly in relation to the Morrison JLA, which I found tedious in the extreme and have never been able to summon up the enthusiasm to reread. I far preferred the Jurgens JLA. Aside from anything else, I've always found the second string characters much more interesting than the likes of Superman and Wonder Woman. Comprehensively disagreed. When I see JLA on the marquee, I expect a collection of the best DC has to offer. For me, the comic "JLA" belongs to Superman, Batman, Flash, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern just as much as the comic "Fantastic Four" belongs to Reed, Sue, Johnny and Ben. Second stringers are welcome as guests and teammates, but they can get their own team or join something like Power Company if they want more of the spotlight. Lack of character development in JLA, for me, is a feature not a problem. The track record of JLA stories featuring the DC stars is far superior to that featuring the second stringers. (the eras mentioned above, JLI and Detroit) You're mileage obviously varies, but I suspect we're not borrowing each others' cars any time soon.  (We'll always have Dan Jurgens!) As for Morrison, I had heard of him, but the only comic I'd read from him prior to JLA #1 was Aztek. I have consistently and greatly enjoyed his DC superhero work over the last two decades. |
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Post by Action Ace on Jan 9, 2016 21:44:08 GMT -5
What issue was Shaxper on? |
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Post by realjla on Jan 9, 2016 23:04:22 GMT -5
Shaxper was retconned out of existence in CRISIS OF MILLENNIUM LEGENDS INVASION OF 52 ZERO HOURS # 6 7/8ths.
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Post by tingramretro on Jan 10, 2016 2:01:58 GMT -5
That is highly debatable. I disagree with virtually everything you've said there (except possibly about the later issues of JLE), particularly in relation to the Morrison JLA, which I found tedious in the extreme and have never been able to summon up the enthusiasm to reread. I far preferred the Jurgens JLA. Aside from anything else, I've always found the second string characters much more interesting than the likes of Superman and Wonder Woman. Comprehensively disagreed. When I see JLA on the marquee, I expect a collection of the best DC has to offer. For me, the comic "JLA" belongs to Superman, Batman, Flash, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern just as much as the comic "Fantastic Four" belongs to Reed, Sue, Johnny and Ben. Second stringers are welcome as guests and teammates, but they can get their own team or join something like Power Company if they want more of the spotlight. Lack of character development in JLA, for me, is a feature not a problem. The track record of JLA stories featuring the DC stars is far superior to that featuring the second stringers. (the eras mentioned above, JLI and Detroit) You're mileage obviously varies, but I suspect we're not borrowing each others' cars any time soon. (We'll always have Dan Jurgens!) Good stories are about characters and how they develop. If you have no possibility for character development, all you have are cardboard cut-outs going through the motions. You're right about us not borrowing each others cars, though: I don't drive. |
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Post by tingramretro on Jan 10, 2016 2:51:38 GMT -5
Morrison's JLA is my 2nd Favorite Incarnation(s) of the Justice League of America - The 1st is the Satellite Era featuring the 16 of the greatest Superheroes of all time. 17, surely? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 6:50:56 GMT -5
Morrison's JLA is my 2nd Favorite Incarnation(s) of the Justice League of America - The 1st is the Satellite Era featuring the 16 of the greatest Superheroes of all time. 17, surely? Aquaman Atom Batman Black Canary Elongated Man Firestorm Flash Green Arrow Green Lantern Hawkgirl Hawkman Martian Manhunter - I prefer Jonn Jonzz over that name alone. Red Tornado Superman Wonder Woman Zatanna I recognized these 16 as the true members of the Satellite Era of the Justice League of America. You said 17 and I respectfully disagree with you. Phantom Stranger turned down a Membership and I consider Snapper Carr an honorary, but disgraced member of the JLA. I consider these 16 Members as the true members of the Satellite Era of the JLA.
Morrison Era may have 17 ... and I don't pay attention to the actual (count-wise) membership of that era; but I consider that era is the 2nd Best because of the ranks that he puts together. |
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Post by tingramretro on Jan 10, 2016 8:53:38 GMT -5
Satellite Era:- 16 MembersAquaman Atom Batman Black Canary Elongated Man Firestorm Flash Green Arrow Green Lantern Hawkgirl Hawkman Martian Manhunter - I prefer Jonn Jonzz over that name alone. Red Tornado Superman Wonder Woman Zatanna I recognized these 16 as the true members of the Satellite Era of the Justice League of America. You said 17 and I respectfully disagree with you. Phantom Stranger turned down a Membership and I consider Snapper Carr an honorary, but disgraced member of the JLA. I consider these 16 Members as the true members of the Satellite Era of the JLA.
Au contraire. The Phantom Stranger did not turn down membership-he was voted in in JLA #103, and while he didn't actually hang around long enough to formally accept membership at that time, he subsequently confirmed himself as a member when he next aided them. DC even listed him as a member in the JLA's entry in Who's Who in the DC Universe in 1985. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,871
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Post by shaxper on Jan 10, 2016 16:21:57 GMT -5
What issue was Shaxper on? I was thinking of doing a new review tonight, but I don't want to take the thread off-topic  |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,871
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Post by shaxper on Jan 10, 2016 21:03:57 GMT -5
I'll be passing on the review tonight, as I ended up spending this evening reading the thirteen part X-Cutioner's Song storyline and reviewed that instead. I'm beat, but I hope to get back to Justice League tomorrow. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 21:07:46 GMT -5
I'll be passing on the review tonight, as I ended up spending this evening reading the thirteen part X-Cutioner's Song storyline and reviewed that instead. I'm beat, but I hope to get back to Justice League tomorrow. Slacker  -M |
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Post by Action Ace on Jan 10, 2016 22:10:49 GMT -5
I'll be passing on the review tonight, as I ended up spending this evening reading the thirteen part X-Cutioner's Song storyline and reviewed that instead. I'm beat, but I hope to get back to Justice League tomorrow. BAH! |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 11, 2016 15:17:36 GMT -5
Just in case you're not aware Shax, JLI #13 directly crossover over with Suicide Squad #13... there are definitely JLI bits in the Suicide Squad issue you might want to have in the thread (just read it in the newly release Suicde Squad TPB).
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(We'll always have Dan Jurgens!)
