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Post by tartanphantom on Jun 3, 2024 13:22:53 GMT -5
The dramatic painted covers of Dell/Western's Turok series are among the most beautiful and striking covers of the entire Silver Age. Well done, Morris Gollub and (later) George Wilson. Gollub in particular had a spectacular eye for perspective.
What 10-yr. old atomic-age kid could possibly resist the lure of these beaming from the drugstore comics rack?
There, I said it.
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Post by Batflunkie on Jun 3, 2024 14:09:38 GMT -5
Original Turok is a damn good read even today. Love the melding of native Americans and dinosaurs
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Post by tarkintino on Jun 3, 2024 15:08:32 GMT -5
The dramatic painted covers of Dell/Western's Turok series are among the most beautiful and striking covers of the entire Silver Age. Well done, Morris Gollub and (later) George Wilson. Gollub in particular had a spectacular eye for perspective. Agreed! I would extend the power of their covers to all-time status; they were master artists who a bottomless well of inventive, dramatic concepts and were more than capable of handling any genre. Few comic book artists can make that claim, including some of the go-to "greatest" superhero comic artists. |
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Post by Rob Allen on Jun 3, 2024 18:30:08 GMT -5
Yes, those covers look great, but as a kid starting to read comics in 1963, I always went for the line-drawn Marvel and DC covers. Dell and Gold Key comics felt foreign somehow.
I've never owned an issue of Turok. Was "Stone" really his father's name?
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Post by berkley on Jun 3, 2024 18:30:32 GMT -5
Seems to me the Avengers proves my point. 6 issues with 4 different writers, and mediocre stories. And Shooter wants to blame the artists? Sounds more like lipstick on a pig. Meanwhile the better work mentioned above shows the problem wasn't Colan. Cap #256
Who were these writers? Did any of them come close, even at some later stage of their respective careers, to attaining the kind of stature as a comics writer that Colan had as an artist? Somehow, I doubt it. It seems to me that when they came to him with complaints, Shooter should have said to them, "It's Gene Colan, you're a new guy. You adapt to him, he doesn't adapt to you." But then he wouldn't have been Shooter.
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Post by kirby101 on Jun 3, 2024 19:40:08 GMT -5
Seems to me the Avengers proves my point. 6 issues with 4 different writers, and mediocre stories. And Shooter wants to blame the artists? Sounds more like lipstick on a pig. Meanwhile the better work mentioned above shows the problem wasn't Colan. Cap #256
Who were these writers? Did any of them come close, even at some later stage of their respective careers, to attaining the kind of stature as a comics writer that Colan had as an artist? Somehow, I doubt it. It seems to me that when they came to him with complaints, Shooter should have said to them, "It's Gene Colan, you're a new guy. You adapt to him, he doesn't adapt to you." But then he wouldn't have been Shooter.
Fingeroth, Budansky, Mantlo and Shooter. The Mount Rushmore. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 3, 2024 20:07:18 GMT -5
Yes, those covers look great, but as a kid starting to read comics in 1963, I always went for the line-drawn Marvel and DC covers. Dell and Gold Key comics felt foreign somehow. I've never owned an issue of Turok. Was "Stone" really his father's name? It was Sandstone, but it was Americanized it when the family came over from Asia, way back a few generations |
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Post by MWGallaher on Jun 4, 2024 8:32:33 GMT -5
Seems to me the Avengers proves my point. 6 issues with 4 different writers, and mediocre stories. And Shooter wants to blame the artists? Sounds more like lipstick on a pig. Meanwhile the better work mentioned above shows the problem wasn't Colan. It seems to me the most crucial missing bits of (recent) comics history are the actual typed-out plots "Marvel Method" artists were working from; not just the more controversial Stan Lee plots, few if any reliable examples of which exist (and which may not have ever been committed to paper in the first place), but also what Marvel artists like Colan worked from in the 70's and 80's, from writers like Mantlo and Budiansky. We devoted readers have been left (or lead) to imagine and presume that these plots spelled out the general order of events, the key plot points, the special moments that had to happen, and those things may or may not have actually been provided. In the Colan final page I showed earlier, there's a lot of exposition in the final panels, and it may have been that the plot indeed placed those events as revelations which would close the story, but that Colan saw them as being so uninteresting visually that he chose not to devote as many pages to them as the plotter envisioned. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 4, 2024 9:00:08 GMT -5
That is a great point. I think it's hard to argue the artist should get at least co-writing credit if the summary is: Have Spidey fight Vulture and have the supporting cast in the way. As opposed to a page long story. I think with Lee/Kirby it was the former in alot of cases, just based on some of the inconsistencies we've all pointed out between art and dialogue in various spots.
The process at its best should be collaborative... I feel like the truly great runs are.
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Post by kirby101 on Jun 5, 2024 9:02:19 GMT -5
I had a thought from the Thor review. Icctrombone mistakenly commented about Marvel overtaking DC in the Silver Age. As I said there, Marvel total sales overtook DC in the mid-70s and even then, outside of Spider-Man, DC had more top books. They did it with reprints mainly.
Now this is not about who had better books. I would completely agree with Icct, that Marvel was superior.
And Icct is far from alone in thinking Marvel outsold DC. So why they mistaken perception.
I think Marvel attracted more avid readers and fans who stuck with the books longer, well into their teens and beyond. While DC was getting more the kids who had spare change to buy the comics that looked cool or had a character they liked. So while DC was outselling Marvel, Marvel had the more decoted fan base.
Flash forward to the late 70s and 80s and the older readers are the ones who remember the Silver Age as the time with those great Marvel books. And their memory is they and their friends buying more Marvel.
Sweeping generalization? Yes. But I think it is part of what lead to this misconception.
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Post by Batflunkie on Jun 5, 2024 9:14:20 GMT -5
I had a thought from the Thor review. Icctrombone mistakenly commented about Marvel overtaking DC in the Silver Age. As I said there, Marvel total sales overtook DC in the mid-70s and even then, outside of Spider-Man, DC had more top books. They did it with reprints mainly. Now this is not about who had better books. I would completely agree with Icct, that Marvel was superior. And Icct is far from alone in thinking Marvel outsold DC. So why they mistaken perception. I think Marvel attracted more avid readers and fans who stuck with the books longer, well into their teens and beyond. While DC was getting more the kids who had spare change to buy the comics that looked cool or had a character they liked. So while DC was outselling Marvel, Marvel had the more decoted fan base. Flash forward to the late 70s and 80s and the older readers are the ones who remember the Silver Age as the time with those great Marvel books. And their memory is they and their friends buying more Marvel. Sweeping generalization? Yes. But I think it is part of what lead to this misconception. There are very few DC books from the Silver Age that I'd willingly read outside of Flash and Metal Men, flash forward to the later half of the 60 and into the 70's and that changes. DC was taking a hard look at their books and altering them for the better, they still were cheerful and approachable (excluding Batman of course knatch), but felt much more grounded while still being fantastical, much like Marvel (who'd have thunk it?) |
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Post by kirby101 on Jun 5, 2024 9:27:36 GMT -5
There are very few DC books from the Silver Age that I'd willingly read outside of Flash and Metal Men, flash forward to the later half of the 60 and into the 70's and that changes. DC was taking a hard look at their books and altering them for the better, they still were cheerful and approachable (excluding Batman of course knatch), but felt much more grounded while still being fantastical, much like Marvel (who'd have thunk it?) I think part of why that happened is new writers, who were comics fans, like Denny O'Neil, started to write.
By 1970, you felt the idea that every issue was somebody's first and that there was a 3 to 5 year period when kids read comics was no longer the guiding principles. Writers started writing for their fellow fans. This resulted in the great comics of the Bronze Age and the 80s. I think this also resulted in the mess superhero comics are in now. 10 or 15 years of continuity (or pretending there is continuity) was fun. 50 years plus of continuity is a burdensome weight that ruins reading enjoyment.
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Post by Batflunkie on Jun 8, 2024 21:30:31 GMT -5
Re-reading Silver Age Flash from the beginning and I got up to the introduction of Lenard Snart (still think it's a pretty terrible name. Even the Grant Gustin Flash show thought so). In his flashback, this happens. Really, of all the names he could have picked, he went with the one that sounds like he champions the cause of influenza  Mr. Artic sounds infinity better than Captain Cold, there I said it |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 8, 2024 23:22:53 GMT -5
Re-reading Silver Age Flash from the beginning and I got up to the introduction of Lenard Snart (still think it's a pretty terrible name. Even the Grant Gustin Flash show thought so). In his flashback, this happens. Really, of all the names he could have picked, he went with the one that sounds like he champions the cause of influenza Mr. Artic sounds infinity better than Captain Cold, there I said it Mr Arctic sounds like an ice cream brand. |
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Post by tarkintino on Jun 9, 2024 11:52:25 GMT -5
There are very few DC books from the Silver Age that I'd willingly read outside of Flash and Metal Men, flash forward to the later half of the 60 and into the 70's and that changes. DC was taking a hard look at their books and altering them for the better, they still were cheerful and approachable (excluding Batman of course knatch), but felt much more grounded while still being fantastical, much like Marvel (who'd have thunk it?) Silver Age DC at its best (in the 60s), were titles such as the innovative Doom Patrol, and mid-run Aquaman, with some strong, efforts in their anthology titles. From the mid to late 60s, Strange Adventures (by '67 with the introduction of Deadman), the revolutionary reemergence of Batman as the serious character of his origins, more politically themed Teen Titans storylines, and DC answering the call for gothic horror with the complete conversion of House of Secrets, Unexpected & House of Mystery (horror often moving toward the level of Warren, rather than Marvel's contemporaneous, empty retreads of 50s monster / spook stories with predictable O. Henry-esque endings), DC developed a voice of its own, and a creative leaning arguably more adult than some of Marvel's top selling titles of the period. With the dawn of the 70s, the aforementioned late 60s titles moved from strength to strength (although some titles, such as Teen Titans would be cancelled), with even greater heights for: -the Batman titles (an era often cited as one of the medium's finest) -the groundbreaking Green Lantern / Green Arrow run (and its Grell/O'Neil resurrection period), -Kanigher &Kubert's continued, maturing run on Our Army at War-The Spectre's return in Adventure- The Shadow-the Bates/Cockrum/Grell/Shooter run on Superboy starring The Legion of Super-Heroes-the inherited Tarzan...and more solid, excellent DC titles which were just as compelling as anything--with few exceptions--published by Bronze Age Marvel. Personally, I never found myself dealing in the publisher loyalty / attractiveness mentality, because the Bronze Age was the period of a industry highs of endless genres and publishers, to the point where stretching the comic book budget was the biggest problem. |
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