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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2015 14:52:51 GMT -5
Why do they keep starting this @#$% over and over?
Last series was like...18 issues.
I'm a bit out of the loop, I've got all the books but I haven't read past #13 yet of the previous series)....
Noticed another Spider-Gwen volume too...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2015 15:11:09 GMT -5
Why do they keep starting this @#$% over and over? Last series was like...18 issues. I'm a bit out of the loop, I've got all the books but I haven't read past #13 yet of the previous series).... Noticed another Spider-Gwen volume too... Marvel is rebooting the entire line and the number on the cover really has no bearing on content, so why does it matter anyways? Except people buy more when it'a #1 than they do otherwise and that's on the consumer, not the publisher. In all things like this, comic buyers have met the enemy and it is them. -M |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Oct 31, 2015 15:29:12 GMT -5
Is there really a need for any comic book?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2015 18:12:54 GMT -5
Is there really a need for any comic book? Then you'd be posting on a forum for Idaho potatoes. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Oct 31, 2015 19:07:07 GMT -5
Is there really a need for any comic book? Then you'd be posting on a forum for Idaho potatoes. There's the ol' Jezzy humour we've been missing for awhile Welcome back and hope all is well |
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Post by Randle-El on Oct 31, 2015 21:35:50 GMT -5
Why do they keep starting this @#$% over and over? Last series was like...18 issues. I'm a bit out of the loop, I've got all the books but I haven't read past #13 yet of the previous series).... Noticed another Spider-Gwen volume too... It's not going to get any better. Marvel editorial has indicated that they are embracing the "seasons" model for publishing. People need obvious jumping on points, they say, and what better jumping on point than a new #1? So pretty much every title is going to get relaunched every year or two. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,203 
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Post by Confessor on Nov 1, 2015 11:18:30 GMT -5
Why do they keep starting this @#$% over and over? Last series was like...18 issues. I'm a bit out of the loop, I've got all the books but I haven't read past #13 yet of the previous series).... Noticed another Spider-Gwen volume too... It's not going to get any better. Marvel editorial has indicated that they are embracing the "seasons" model for publishing. People need obvious jumping on points, they say, and what better jumping on point than a new #1? So pretty much every title is going to get relaunched every year or two. Yeah, that definitely seems to be the model that Marvel (and DC for that matter) are pursuing these days. I agree that it's a shame about the constant re-numbering. When I was a kid in the 1980s and collecting Amazing Spider-Man, I didn't give a hoot that I was buying issue #237 of an ongoing series. The longevity and past history of the series gave it gravitas in my view and I used to futilely dream that one day I might be able to track down every issue of the series and have a complete run. Unfortunately, society as a whole -- not just the niche comic book buying portions of society -- seems to be in the grip of a fevered type of neophilia, in which gimmicks and the apparent "newness" of a product is often given more importance than whether it's actually any good or not. Not that I'm dismissing the new ASM run as not good, I've yet to read it. But the issue #1 mania that the comic book industry seems dedicated to perpetuating for all its worth is a symptom of that, in my view. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2015 11:31:14 GMT -5
It's not going to get any better. Marvel editorial has indicated that they are embracing the "seasons" model for publishing. People need obvious jumping on points, they say, and what better jumping on point than a new #1? So pretty much every title is going to get relaunched every year or two. Yeah, that definitely seems to be the model that Marvel (and DC for that matter) are pursuing these days. I agree that it's a shame about the constant re-numbering. When I was a kid in the 1980s and collecting Amazing Spider-Man, I didn't give a hoot that I was buying issue #237 of an ongoing series. The longevity and past history of the series gave it gravitas in my view and I used to futilely dream that one day I might be able to track down every issue of the series and have a complete run. Unfortunately, society as a whole -- not just the niche comic book buying portions of society -- seems to be in the grip of a fevered type of neophilia, in which gimmicks and the apparent "newness" of a product is often given more importance than whether it's actually any good or not. Not that I'm dismissing the new ASM run as not good, I've yet to read it. But the issue #1 mania that the comic book industry seems dedicated to perpetuating for all its worth is a symptom of that, in my view. Except the obsession with #1 issues in collecting comics goes back to a time long before neophilia gripped society-look at the ads form 70s and 80s comics and several comic sellers are selling lots of #1s for various series and #1 issues always had the collectibility factor even if the series was crap... The only thing that kept a lot of publishers form putting out #1 (and the reason Capt. America started at #100, Doc Strange at 169 and Hulk at 102 when the split books were ended) was US postal regulations which required a certain number of issues be published before a periodical could qualify for less expensive postal rates (second class I think it was), so when the direct market took over you saw a lot more #1 issues (think DC rebooting Superman/Wonder Woman/Flash post-crisis, then Marvel in the 90s with a new Amazing Spider-Man #1, Heroes Reborn and Return #1s, the new Daredevil #1, etc.) and as the speculator market and sales patterns in the Diamond age of distribution rewarded #1 issues more and more with higher sales we get the de rigeur relaunch. It all started long before neophilia was the rage in mass culture, but now that this trend has taken hold, I doubt you will see the niche comic industry move away form it now-the neophilia simply reinforced what had already been happening in the collecting comics field for a long time and entrenched it there for the foreseeable future. If consumers didn't flock to #1s regularly and offer positive reinforcement to publishers who do it, we wouldn't have as many #1s. If #1 sold less than #237, we wouldn't have as many #1s. But people buy them, so publishers will put them out there. Sticking collector's item classic on a #1 issue is not a new thing, it's been there since at least the Bronze Age. Don't want to see as many #1 issues, don't buy #1 issues. Simple as that. -M |
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 1, 2015 11:34:44 GMT -5
I would love for the big two to start placing the year along with the number.
Ex:
Spider-man 2015 #1.
Spider-man 2016 #1.
I keep buying dupes of books because of variant covers etc.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Nov 1, 2015 14:05:23 GMT -5
I might be part of the problem, but I am a lot more likely to impulse by a # 1 issue than a # 74. (I bought all the DC 52 # 1s, but dropped all the titles within a year, ferinstance.)
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,203
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Post by Confessor on Nov 1, 2015 18:52:24 GMT -5
Yeah, that definitely seems to be the model that Marvel (and DC for that matter) are pursuing these days. I agree that it's a shame about the constant re-numbering. When I was a kid in the 1980s and collecting Amazing Spider-Man, I didn't give a hoot that I was buying issue #237 of an ongoing series. The longevity and past history of the series gave it gravitas in my view and I used to futilely dream that one day I might be able to track down every issue of the series and have a complete run. Unfortunately, society as a whole -- not just the niche comic book buying portions of society -- seems to be in the grip of a fevered type of neophilia, in which gimmicks and the apparent "newness" of a product is often given more importance than whether it's actually any good or not. Not that I'm dismissing the new ASM run as not good, I've yet to read it. But the issue #1 mania that the comic book industry seems dedicated to perpetuating for all its worth is a symptom of that, in my view. Except the obsession with #1 issues in collecting comics goes back to a time long before neophilia gripped society-look at the ads form 70s and 80s comics and several comic sellers are selling lots of #1s for various series and #1 issues always had the collectibility factor even if the series was crap... No, that's not the same thing. That's an entirely different phenomena to what I'm describing. The inaugural issues of anything from comics, to newspapers, to LP albums, to magazines or periodicals and even books (1st prints of the book, that is) have always been more collectible than subsequent issues because that is the beginning of a series or where a beloved character first appeared. Also, there are collectors who just buy issue #1s of things. So, therefore #1s or first editions have a collectibility factor far greater than the other numbers in a series. That's really not the same reason that Marvel and DC are putting out new #1s now...at least, not for the most part. There might be some people that are suckered into buying a new comic issue #1 for its supposed collectibility in later years, but the main thrust of the rational behind the constant reboots we get these days in comics is that they provide so-called "jumping on points". They are there to attract new readers to a series, not really to attract people who collect #1 issues and will then stop buying the subsequent issues that the company release. Thta's not what comic companies want. They want a sales spike that continues for an appreciable time as the series continues. Not just a one time flash in the pan spike. The only thing that kept a lot of publishers form putting out #1 (and the reason Capt. America started at #100, Doc Strange at 169 and Hulk at 102 when the split books were ended) was US postal regulations which required a certain number of issues be published before a periodical could qualify for less expensive postal rates (second class I think it was), so when the direct market took over you saw a lot more #1 issues (think DC rebooting Superman/Wonder Woman/Flash post-crisis, then Marvel in the 90s with a new Amazing Spider-Man #1, Heroes Reborn and Return #1s, the new Daredevil #1, etc.) and as the speculator market and sales patterns in the Diamond age of distribution rewarded #1 issues more and more with higher sales we get the de rigeur relaunch. It all started long before neophilia was the rage in mass culture, but now that this trend has taken hold, I doubt you will see the niche comic industry move away form it now-the neophilia simply reinforced what had already been happening in the collecting comics field for a long time and entrenched it there for the foreseeable future. The facts about the postal rate are correct and I was already aware of that, but again, I think you've missed the point of what I was saying. The modern reboots are not really aimed at collectors in the main, but at bringing new readers on board -- both in terms of providing a conveniant jumping on point and as a kind of "Hey! look at this, it's all shiny and new" to tap into modern society's appetite for the latest thing. The Comics industry has multiple variant covers to fleece the collectors instead.  Oh, and incidentally, Neophilia crazes are not neccessarily confined to modern times. The late 1950s and 1960s saw a similarly Neophilic craze for technology and supposedly space-aged gadgets, not to mention fashion. If consumers didn't flock to #1s regularly and offer positive reinforcement to publishers who do it, we wouldn't have as many #1s. If #1 sold less than #237, we wouldn't have as many #1s. But people buy them, so publishers will put them out there. Errr...that's what I'm saying. You're essentially repeating what I'm saying. We're just disagreeing on the publisher's hoped for goal. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2015 19:47:55 GMT -5
As expected there are well over 10 variant covers to #1...I got the Camuncoli, Campbell and Bagley variants (1:50, 1:50 and 1:25 I think) at no extra cost so I picked those and ordered the Midtown and (another) Campbell exclusive from his website. I only do this for #1s so yeah, I'm a sucker  ...besides, it's one of the few Marvel titles I faithfully stick with. Will catch up on reading the unread issues from Volume 3 this week. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2015 20:13:57 GMT -5
Why do they keep starting this @#$% over and over? Last series was like...18 issues. I'm a bit out of the loop, I've got all the books but I haven't read past #13 yet of the previous series).... Noticed another Spider-Gwen volume too... Don't forget Howard the Duck too. I'm actually okay with Marvel rebooting all of the stories. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2015 20:38:57 GMT -5
Except the obsession with #1 issues in collecting comics goes back to a time long before neophilia gripped society-look at the ads form 70s and 80s comics and several comic sellers are selling lots of #1s for various series and #1 issues always had the collectibility factor even if the series was crap... No, that's not the same thing. That's an entirely different phenomena to what I'm describing. The inaugural issues of anything from comics, to newspapers, to LP albums, to magazines or periodicals and even books (1st prints of the book, that is) have always been more collectible than subsequent issues because that is the beginning of a series or where a beloved character first appeared. Also, there are collectors who just buy issue #1s of things. So, therefore #1s or first editions have a collectibility factor far greater than the other numbers in a series. That's really not the same reason that Marvel and DC are putting out new #1s now...at least, not for the most part. There might be some people that are suckered into buying a new comic issue #1 for its supposed collectibility in later years, but the main thrust of the rational behind the constant reboots we get these days in comics is that they provide so-called "jumping on points". They are there to attract new readers to a series, not really to attract people who collect #1 issues and will then stop buying the subsequent issues that the company release. Thta's not what comic companies want. They want a sales spike that continues for an appreciable time as the series continues. Not just a one time flash in the pan spike. The only thing that kept a lot of publishers form putting out #1 (and the reason Capt. America started at #100, Doc Strange at 169 and Hulk at 102 when the split books were ended) was US postal regulations which required a certain number of issues be published before a periodical could qualify for less expensive postal rates (second class I think it was), so when the direct market took over you saw a lot more #1 issues (think DC rebooting Superman/Wonder Woman/Flash post-crisis, then Marvel in the 90s with a new Amazing Spider-Man #1, Heroes Reborn and Return #1s, the new Daredevil #1, etc.) and as the speculator market and sales patterns in the Diamond age of distribution rewarded #1 issues more and more with higher sales we get the de rigeur relaunch. It all started long before neophilia was the rage in mass culture, but now that this trend has taken hold, I doubt you will see the niche comic industry move away form it now-the neophilia simply reinforced what had already been happening in the collecting comics field for a long time and entrenched it there for the foreseeable future. The facts about the postal rate are correct and I was already aware of that, but again, I think you've missed the point of what I was saying. The modern reboots are not really aimed at collectors in the main, but at bringing new readers on board -- both in terms of providing a conveniant jumping on point and as a kind of "Hey! look at this, it's all shiny and new" to tap into modern society's appetite for the latest thing. The Comics industry has multiple variant covers to fleece the collectors instead. Oh, and incidentally, Neophilia crazes are not neccessarily confined to modern times. The late 1950s and 1960s saw a similarly Neophilic craze for technology and supposedly space-aged gadgets, not to mention fashion. If consumers didn't flock to #1s regularly and offer positive reinforcement to publishers who do it, we wouldn't have as many #1s. If #1 sold less than #237, we wouldn't have as many #1s. But people buy them, so publishers will put them out there. Errr...that's what I'm saying. You're essentially repeating what I'm saying. We're just disagreeing on the publisher's hoped for goal. Except, by now publishers realize the pie is not really getting any bigger and "new readers" i.e. people who weren't previously buying or reading comics, are a white whale. They don't exist. They have been offering jumping on points since 2000 when movies started appearing and the new to comics readers aren't coming. What they want, is to reslice the existing pie and the #1s get "new readers" in that existing readers of other books buy the #1s instead of the other books they have been buying. That is, get new readers to a title from the existing pool of readers that are already buying comics, just not the comic they are relaunching (i.e. let's get the guy to add Amazing Spider-Man to his pull when it relaunches and drop say Superman because it had a creative team change with issue #xx not get someone off the street to suddenly start buying Amazing Spider-an because it's #1 because that customer won't set foot in a comic shop to know ASM #1 is coming or available ad it will never be sold at places where that potential new reader might actually shop). Those folks know what #1s are and the jumping on point is really just a way to shift sales to the books you want, reshaping market share, but not really expanding it. New to comics readers don't go into comic shops and aren't looking for monthly books, they might buy trades or digital, but the goal of the #1 is not new readers it's to get favorable market share and a bigger slice of the existing pie, and comic purchasers oblige like lemmings because the shiny newness of the #1 has been ingrained into the collecting mentality/DNA. And if you want interesting discussions of neophilia vs. neo-phobes, check out some of Robert Anton Wilson's writings. Comic fans, as much as the #1 phenomenon makes it seem like they are neophiles, are really neophobes-you can't really change what they buy-make Sam Wilson Cap, they get scared and some stop buying, kill a character, they protest and threaten to stop buying, change a status quo and they want and they want to burn you at the stake for heresy, ignore a panel from a comic published in 1973 for the sake of a better story and the creator's Twitter accounts are flooded with death threats. But give them a shiny new #1 and they will bitch, but they will buy and buy and buy and buy... -M |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 1, 2015 21:01:19 GMT -5
No, that's not the same thing. That's an entirely different phenomena to what I'm describing. The inaugural issues of anything from comics, to newspapers, to LP albums, to magazines or periodicals and even books (1st prints of the book, that is) have always been more collectible than subsequent issues because that is the beginning of a series or where a beloved character first appeared. Also, there are collectors who just buy issue #1s of things. So, therefore #1s or first editions have a collectibility factor far greater than the other numbers in a series. That's really not the same reason that Marvel and DC are putting out new #1s now...at least, not for the most part. There might be some people that are suckered into buying a new comic issue #1 for its supposed collectibility in later years, but the main thrust of the rational behind the constant reboots we get these days in comics is that they provide so-called "jumping on points". They are there to attract new readers to a series, not really to attract people who collect #1 issues and will then stop buying the subsequent issues that the company release. Thta's not what comic companies want. They want a sales spike that continues for an appreciable time as the series continues. Not just a one time flash in the pan spike. The facts about the postal rate are correct and I was already aware of that, but again, I think you've missed the point of what I was saying. The modern reboots are not really aimed at collectors in the main, but at bringing new readers on board -- both in terms of providing a conveniant jumping on point and as a kind of "Hey! look at this, it's all shiny and new" to tap into modern society's appetite for the latest thing. The Comics industry has multiple variant covers to fleece the collectors instead. Oh, and incidentally, Neophilia crazes are not neccessarily confined to modern times. The late 1950s and 1960s saw a similarly Neophilic craze for technology and supposedly space-aged gadgets, not to mention fashion. Errr...that's what I'm saying. You're essentially repeating what I'm saying. We're just disagreeing on the publisher's hoped for goal. Except, by now publishers realize the pie is not really getting any bigger and "new readers" i.e. people who weren't previously buying or reading comics, are a white whale. They don't exist. They have been offering jumping on points since 2000 when movies started appearing and the new to comics readers aren't coming. What they want, is to reslice the existing pie and the #1s get "new readers" in that existing readers of other books buy the #1s instead of the other books they have been buying. That is, get new readers to a title from the existing pool of readers that are already buying comics, just not the comic they are relaunching (i.e. let's get the guy to add Amazing Spider-Man to his pull when it relaunches and drop say Superman because it had a creative team change with issue #xx not get someone off the street to suddenly start buying Amazing Spider-an because it's #1 because that customer won't set foot in a comic shop to know ASM #1 is coming or available ad it will never be sold at places where that potential new reader might actually shop). Those folks know what #1s are and the jumping on point is really just a way to shift sales to the books you want, reshaping market share, but not really expanding it. New to comics readers don't go into comic shops and aren't looking for monthly books, they might buy trades or digital, but the goal of the #1 is not new readers it's to get favorable market share and a bigger slice of the existing pie, and comic purchasers oblige like lemmings because the shiny newness of the #1 has been ingrained into the collecting mentality/DNA. And if you want interesting discussions of neophilia vs. neo-phobes, check out some of Robert Anton Wilson's writings. Comic fans, as much as the #1 phenomenon makes it seem like they are neophiles, are really neophobes-you can't really change what they buy-make Sam Wilson Cap, they get scared and some stop buying, kill a character, they protest and threaten to stop buying, change a status quo and they want and they want to burn you at the stake for heresy, ignore a panel from a comic published in 1973 for the sake of a better story and the creator's Twitter accounts are flooded with death threats. But give them a shiny new #1 and they will bitch, but they will buy and buy and buy and buy... -M That makes me sad. |
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...besides, it's one of the few Marvel titles I faithfully stick with. 