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Post by tingramretro on Nov 23, 2015 3:10:28 GMT -5
How are those future generations going to enjoy it? They won't be able to read the thing, either! That's a serious misconception. If they have to read it, they can simply crack open the slab, remove the book, open it and read it. The grade becomes nullified...but the price paid for being indifferent about the slab. Again, if I have a slabbed book and a normal bagged copy of the same book in perhaps a lower grade, why must I bust open the NM copy and get my cadbury stained fingers all over it? That's what the reading copy is for. You could try just washing your hands first and spend the cash you'd have wasted on a second copy on buying a different book... |
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Post by Confessor on Nov 23, 2015 11:45:01 GMT -5
Yeah, I think I must've had at least one copy of The Titans because I have a very hazy memory of one of my pocket books having an iron man story in it that featured the original "bathtub" armour suit. I definitely had a Fantastic Four one and I think I probably had at least one Spider-Man pocket book as well because I vaguely remember having the death of Gwen Stacy in that format...although that could just be my memory playing tricks on me. Perhaps, if you have time (and don't worry if it's a hassle), you could see which (if any) issues of The Titans and Spider-Man have stories featuring the original "bathtub" Iron Man armour and/or the death of Gwen Stacy (or maybe a flashback to that tragic event). I'd like to maybe pick up copies of those pocket books that I had as a little 'un. At least the first three issues of the Titans Pocket Book feature Iron Man in his original armour (afraid I don't have the next couple) although, rather confusingly, he's shown wearing his red and gold suit on the covers! The Spider-Man Pocket Book, though, only lasted 28 issues and never got anywhere near to ASM #121. Marvel UK did reprint that story at least twice, once in Spider-Man Comics Weekly and once in an early eighties Spider-Man Annual, but not in a Pocket Book. Thanks for the info, tingramretro. Hmmm...OK, what year did ASM #121 get reprinted in Spider-Man Comics Weekly? I'm pretty sure I didn't have in hardcover annual form, but maybe...  |
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Post by Confessor on Nov 23, 2015 11:50:59 GMT -5
How are those future generations going to enjoy it? They won't be able to read the thing, either! That's a serious misconception. If they have to read it, they can simply crack open the slab, remove the book, open it and read it. The grade becomes nullified...but the price paid for being indifferent about the slab. That's an argument based on a false premise though. Comic books are slabbed by CGC in order that the grade they assign the book cannot change. As you yourself say, once the slab is cracked open, it's grading is null and void. So, although there's nothing stopping you from slabbing a book and then opening it to read, clearly the core concept of sending a comic to CGC for slabbing is counter to being able to handle it and read it in the future. The fact that the plastic slabs themselves are not designed to be opened again and have to be broken, in order to get at the book inside, proves this. |
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Post by tingramretro on Nov 23, 2015 11:57:46 GMT -5
At least the first three issues of the Titans Pocket Book feature Iron Man in his original armour (afraid I don't have the next couple) although, rather confusingly, he's shown wearing his red and gold suit on the covers! The Spider-Man Pocket Book, though, only lasted 28 issues and never got anywhere near to ASM #121. Marvel UK did reprint that story at least twice, once in Spider-Man Comics Weekly and once in an early eighties Spider-Man Annual, but not in a Pocket Book. Thanks for the info, tingramretro. Hmmm...OK, what year did ASM #121 get reprinted in Spider-Man Comics Weekly? I'm pretty sure I didn't have in hardcover annual form, but maybe... Actually, having checked, it was in Super Spider-Man with the Super-Heroes #170-171, from May 1976, published in the landscape format. |
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Post by Confessor on Nov 23, 2015 12:15:22 GMT -5
Thanks for the info, tingramretro. Hmmm...OK, what year did ASM #121 get reprinted in Spider-Man Comics Weekly? I'm pretty sure I didn't have in hardcover annual form, but maybe... Actually, having checked, it was in Super Spider-Man with the Super-Heroes #170-171, from May 1976, published in the landscape format. Thanks for checking that for me. I don't think it was from those issues...I'd have been 3 years old. A little too young for comics. Oh well, I'm probably misremembering. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 12:21:45 GMT -5
That's an argument based on a false premise though. Comic books are slabbed by CGC in order that the grade they assign the book cannot change. Nope. In quite a number of instances, slabbed books are opened, professionally pressed or 'cleaned', re-submitted for grading and returned by CGC with a higher grade. This is especially so for books with flaws such as spine curl, small creases etc that can be fixed. Grades are 'not' final, they only hold while the graded book remains sealed. |
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Post by Confessor on Nov 23, 2015 12:33:48 GMT -5
That's an argument based on a false premise though. Comic books are slabbed by CGC in order that the grade they assign the book cannot change. Nope. In quite a number of instances, slabbed books are opened, professionally pressed or 'cleaned', re-submitted for grading and returned by CGC with a higher grade. This is especially so for books with flaws such as spine curl, small creases etc that can be fixed. Grades are 'not' final, they only hold while the graded book remains sealed. Sure, but ultimately they are meant to remain shut away forever (presumably). It's just that, in the example you give above, that this occurs after a few different attempts at getting the grade that the owner wants. So, this fairly rare practice doesn't really invalidate my original assertion that CGC slabs are ultimately intended to stay shut and the books beyond the touch of human beings. Yes, you can break them open if you want, but that's not what they are designed for or what CGC grading is supposed to be about. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 12:34:54 GMT -5
You could try just washing your hands first and spend the cash you'd have wasted on a second copy on buying a different book... Collectors sometimes own multiple copies of key books. I sometimes buy a third or fourth copy of a book when I come across a good deal, which is why I own 2-3 copies of quite a number of silver-age books. I don't consider that 'wasted' money when I can use said book for a future deal that works in my favour. |
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Post by tingramretro on Nov 23, 2015 12:39:55 GMT -5
You could try just washing your hands first and spend the cash you'd have wasted on a second copy on buying a different book... Collectors sometimes own multiple copies of key books. I sometimes buy a third or fourth copy of a book when I come across a good deal, which is why I own 2-3 copies of quite a number of silver-age books. I don't consider that 'wasted' money when I can use said book for a future deal that works in my favour. I'm a collector. I'm just not that kind of a collector... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 12:40:46 GMT -5
You could try just washing your hands first and spend the cash you'd have wasted on a second copy on buying a different book... Collectors sometimes own multiple copies of key books. I sometimes buy a third or fourth copy of a book when I come across a good deal, which is why I own 2-3 copies of quite a number of silver-age books. I don't consider that 'wasted' money when I can use said book for a future deal that works in my favour. I have, like, no less than six copies of Rat Queens #3. It's not a collectible, but it's my favorite cover. Sorry. Carry on. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 12:41:46 GMT -5
Collectors sometimes own multiple copies of key books. I sometimes buy a third or fourth copy of a book when I come across a good deal, which is why I own 2-3 copies of quite a number of silver-age books. I don't consider that 'wasted' money when I can use said book for a future deal that works in my favour. I'm a collector. I'm just not that kind of a collector... Well, she is. And just because you are not doesn't mean that these things aren't true. And doesn't mean there is anything wrong with what she does... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 12:43:04 GMT -5
Sure, but ultimately they are meant to remain shut away forever (presumably). Nope. For example, there are members on this board who have purchased CGC books simply for the assurance that the book bought was the grade it was certified to be (eg a 9.2 Spidey). Sometimes, you can get a great deal on a graded book, without having to fork over a premium so it makes sense to buy a slabbed copy. Then they open it and assimilate it into the rest of their collections. Not all collectors keep their books slabbed. I would keep a CGC 9.8 variant (eg Ultimate Spider-Man #1 white cover signed by Stan Lee) slabbed because in every instance, I have a regular copy to read. |
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Post by Confessor on Nov 23, 2015 12:52:46 GMT -5
Sure, but ultimately they are meant to remain shut away forever (presumably). Nope. For example, there are members on this board who have purchased CGC books simply for the assurance that the book bought was the grade it was certified to be (eg a 9.2 Spidey). Sometimes, you can get a great deal on a graded book, without having to fork over a premium so it makes sense to buy a slabbed copy. Then they open it and assimilate it into the rest of their collections. Not all collectors keep their books slabbed. I would keep a CGC 9.8 variant (eg Ultimate Spider-Man #1 white cover signed by Stan Lee) slabbed because in every instance, I have a regular copy to read. I'm sure this is all true, but the fact remains that obviously CGC don't intend the books to be taken out of their slabs or they'd design their slabs to be opened. Perhaps with a paper seal, which once broken invalidates the grade. The fact that CGC continue to produce cases that aren't designed to ever be opened proves that a) this is not the intended course of action once the book is slabbed, and b) that the people you're talking about who do crack the cases open are a tiny minority. That's really the essence of what I'm saying: the argument that if you want to read a slabbed book then you can simply crack the slab open is based on a falsehood, which is that opening the slab up is supposed to be an option. The company who do the slabbing don't intend for the books to be removed from the slab again. That's intrinsic to the whole concept of the slabbing and grading operation. |
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Post by Trevor on Nov 23, 2015 14:22:50 GMT -5
I wonder why condition became such a 'thing'. I think I'd prefer a world where condition wasn't even a thought, outside of complete or incomplete. What was the first hobby where condition was important? Coins?
I'm not begrudging people who care about such things, but have just always been repulsed by the whole concept of grading and especially slabbing. Sure, some hobbies where things have mechanical parts and might have to 'work', condition matters. But for things like coins and comics and stamps the only thing that matters, to me, is wether you own it or not. As long as the item is readable, poor and pristine mint are equal in my eyes.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 14:56:19 GMT -5
I find it somewhat amusing when I look back at the ads for back issues in comics from the 70s and 80s (whether they are full page ads or classifieds), I always see things like books are guaranteed to be at least VG but the price listed is about what Overstreet at the time listed for NM, so you pay and aren't sure what condition you were actually going to get.
For someone like Trevor, that might have worked. For someone like Jez, it had to be a non-starter (and I realize neither were active back issue buyers in the 70s, just musing here).
I'm not into the CGC thing, I understand why it's there, but it doesn't serve what I want out of the hobby. But it's a big hobby, and there is room for different approaches. To each their own I guess and follow your bliss. If buying a slabbed 9.2 book of a key makes you happy, go for it, we need more happiness in the hobby and less negativity. If reading a digital edition or trade collection makes you happy, good on you. If owning the original and reading it with all the ads and editorial content intact is your bag, then good on you too. If you're building a retirement portfolio of key Gold and Silver books in a safe deposit box, well, I hope it makes you happy but I can think of lots of better investment fodder, but hey if that's how you want to spend your money, who am I to gainsay you.
I like seeing comics make people happy, however they accomplish that. I may not understand the manner someone goes about it, but as long as comics are making them happy (and it doesn't impinge on other's happiness in comics)-what does it matter?
-M
looking at the other side of a new leaf
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