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Post by String on Jul 10, 2016 19:21:46 GMT -5
Sorry, have to backtrack for a moment for I have to say that as a youngster, this issue was among one of my favorite Superman comics. The riff on the Fantastic Four is plainly obvious but I also saw them as compatriots of a favorite B-list villain team of mine - the U-Foes! The similarities (and differences) were fun and how Jurgens handled their fates was interesting. I'm just a sucker I guess for this type of comic riff. Anyway, loved the reviews for DKoM. Those covers are still great, certain to grab your attention on the racks as you mentioned, being part of the marketing ploy to bring Superman back into the limelight. I can't recall if I still have the individual issues though. It's great that DC has recently seen fit to reprint this arc in trade.
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Post by Action Ace on Jul 10, 2016 22:39:29 GMT -5
Sorry, have to backtrack for a moment for I have to say that as a youngster, this issue was among one of my favorite Superman comics. The riff on the Fantastic Four is plainly obvious but I also saw them as compatriots of a favorite B-list villain team of mine - the U-Foes! The similarities (and differences) were fun and how Jurgens handled their fates was interesting. I'm just a sucker I guess for this type of comic riff. Anyway, loved the reviews for DKoM. Those covers are still great, certain to grab your attention on the racks as you mentioned, being part of the marketing ploy to bring Superman back into the limelight. I can't recall if I still have the individual issues though. It's great that DC has recently seen fit to reprint this arc in trade. I liked the issue, and the Hank Henshaw saga, as well. I think DC put out the trade three years ago. Perhaps, they reprinted it again because of the movie. The trade includes Action Annual #1, the issue shown above, the Action Comics lead in issue and the three part crossover. Dan Jurgens, Superman and the real Fantastic Four would get together nine years later.
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Post by chadwilliam on Jul 11, 2016 0:33:06 GMT -5
Put me down as someone that did like Bob McLeod's art. Not as much as Perez, Jurgens, Ordway or Gammill, but certainly good enough for me to enjoy. Out of the Superman comics artists of the last thirty years, he'd easily be in the top half.
I'm tempted to post scans of McLeod's art as it would develop over the next year or so to contrast the end of his run with the start, but since Shaxper will be getting to it eventually there's really no need. I will however, point out that some nice examples of his work have been posted by dupersuper at the 'Post Your Classic Scans' thread. I can't really disagree with Shaxper's appraisal of McLeod's art as it pertains to Dark Knight Over Metropolis, but I'll really be surprised if he holds it in as low regard by the time of Action 660. So put mine name under Action Ace's.
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Post by dupersuper on Jul 12, 2016 21:34:21 GMT -5
Re: Dark Knight Over Metropolis
It's been a while since I've read this, but I do remember an exchange between the two heroes during which Batman suggested that Superman could simply kill Luthor. I remember feeling a bit unclear as to whether Batman was:
a) testing Superman to see if he would give the "right" answer of "That's not my style", or b) serious.
The latter would usually be the less likely option but I nevertheless thought it entered the realm of possibility when I read this. I think I've mentioned my suspicion that Batman's oath against killing wasn't necessarily set in stone following the Crisis over in the Batman 300 & up thread, but by 1989 it doesn't seem likely that it would remain a grey area even if this had been the case. And yet...
Is it possible that with Batman killing in the '89 film the SuperTeam might have been murky on this detail? Batman had both killed a Parademon the year before in Cosmic Odyssey and seemingly left the KGBeast to die in Gotham's sewers (this would be addressed in Batman: Year Three but that was... actually I don't know, in the near future at this point? The recent past?). He had also driven a car into a group of terrorists which set off a bomb to detonate and kill the group in Detective 590. So... hmm.
I never really bought into the idea that Superman and Batman didn't get along post-Crisis because of their differences seeing as how those differences were pretty trivial in comparison with their similarities. And what were those differences supposed to be anyway? Neither kill (or are supposed to) or torture bad guys, Batman bends the law more than he breaks it (otherwise would Gordon work with him?), neither are afraid to employ tricks such as dangling the bad guy off the roof for info bit though those instances where they do are occur within a context making it clear that both are bluffing.
Anyhow, I don't know. Batman and Superman are running down a corridor, probably in LexCorp and Batman either comes right out and points out that Superman could kill Luthor or is somewhat coy (ie. "There are other ways of dealing with Luthor, you know") about the matter. I'm sure it's in there somewhere. I remember Batman mentioning Superman had a motive for killing Amanda McCoy, and Supes being like "I'm not even going to dignify that.".
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 27, 2016 22:51:55 GMT -5
Superman #45 "Native Sons" artist/writer: Jerry Ordway inks: Dennis Janke colors: Glenn Whitmore letters: John Costanza assoc. editor: Jon Peterson editor: Mike Carlin grade: B You've just launched an ambitious event to attract new readers to the three Superman titles. Now that you have their attention, what do you do next? ...a full month of filler stories and uninteresting covers, apparently. Don't get me wrong; there's a lot to love about this issue, but with all the exciting threads and developments weaving throughout the Superman franchise right now, stories about Native American social justice and (gasp!) Lana Lang's feelings probably aren't the best way to sell this franchise to new readers. Still, the one aspect of this issue that positively shines is the time Ordway gives to The Kents. The concept behind the Superman relaunch all along was supposed to be that Superman was an ordinary farm boy from Kansas, and that his inherent goodness came from the qualities instilled upon him there. Yet, outside of their origin in World of Smallville, the Kents never had a true presence in this franchise up to this point, serving as little more than uni-dimensional cheerleaders that worried appropriately when something was wrong with Clark. But, here, Ordway takes the time to give this family a SOUL, and Janke's inks are there right along with him, helping to paint some of the warmest, life-like images we've yet seen in these pages. These people end up feeling thoroughly real, and you can't help loving them as a result: There's some subtlety at play too. I like that Ordway gives Ma Kent a feminist slant that breaks from the default homemaker tradition: And there's even a playful (if not creepy) reminder that this Pa Kent hasn't died in the way that the Pre-Crisis and movie one did: Foreshadowing? However, though Ordway and Janke are positively on fire throughout most of this issue, they do have their misses. We get a couple of truly weird looking faces from time to time that really kill the momentum of an otherwise powerful story: As for the central conflict of this issue, it's impressive to see both Superman and this book concerned with the plight of Native Americans: and I give extra credit for the level of complexity Ordway gives to this piece. It's not a simple lecture about how the White man has wronged the Red man. Careful attention is given to portray multiple voices and interests within a Native American community, each with their own perspectives and concerns. Of course, Ordway just has to give us an actual fight and a super-powered stranger but if tribal elders could really project astral fire monsters, levitate on air, heal bullet wounds, and pass bullets through them, the Native Americans probably wouldn't have to worry about the white man to begin with. Superman always requires a certain level of disbelief, but somehow expecting us to believe that real-world Native Americans could possess the ability to do these things (and, therefore, simply allowed what occurred to their people, only now taking action over a much smaller matter for some reason) just maxed out that disbelief for me. Really though, the entire purpose of that altercation is to reintroduce us to Pete Ross who we have not seen since Adventures of Superman #436. His handling of the situation shows us that he is a Superman in his own rite, more successful here, in fact, than the super-powered original with his bravery, selflessness, and knack for diplomacy. There's a clear implication that Lana Lang will now be moving on to Pete Ross and will be happy with him. So maybe...just maybe we're done with sad-sack Lana Lang now? Important Details:- The 8 page insert (Jimmy Olsen's Diary) provides an actual date for Superman's first public appearance: June 15, 1985. I'll be updating The Post-Crisis Superman Timeline to reflect this. Minor Details:- Lois gets a page to randomly reflect on her progressing relationship with Clark. It seems included just to remind us this is still happening, but it doesn't go anywhere interesting. - Jimmy Olsen's mom has gone into shock as a result of her experiences with The Evil Factory and learning of her husband's death: - Any previous attempt to mature Jerry White and make him into a sympathetic character is now out the window as Ordway begins setting him up for his final fate: Plot synopsis: Clark returns home to the Kents, now fully free of self-doubt in the wake of The Eradicator storyline. Conveniently enough, a hostage situation breaks out in Smallville at exactly this time, desperate Native Americans feeling they have not been treated fairly by the mining company looking to acquire their land, and taking Pete Ross hostage as a result. A tribal elder shows up to try to save the day, as does Superman, but it soon becomes evident that different tribal members have very different views on this land purchase, most willing to sell in exchange for jobs and fair compensation. Meanwhile, Superman makes it clear to Lana that they will never be romantically involved.
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Post by dupersuper on Jul 28, 2016 15:14:28 GMT -5
Superman #45 "Native Sons" artist/writer: Jerry Ordway inks: Dennis Janke colors: Glenn Whitmore letters: John Costanza assoc. editor: Jon Peterson editor: Mike Carlin grade: B You've just launched an ambitious event to attract new readers to the three Superman titles. Now that you have their attention, what do you do next? ...a full month of filler stories and uninteresting covers, apparently. Aaaww, I really liked those painted covers as a kid.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 28, 2016 16:35:45 GMT -5
Superman #45 "Native Sons" artist/writer: Jerry Ordway inks: Dennis Janke colors: Glenn Whitmore letters: John Costanza assoc. editor: Jon Peterson editor: Mike Carlin grade: B You've just launched an ambitious event to attract new readers to the three Superman titles. Now that you have their attention, what do you do next? ...a full month of filler stories and uninteresting covers, apparently. Aaaww, I really liked those painted covers as a kid. They were always such a turn-off to me. They don't look like comics.
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Post by Action Ace on Jul 28, 2016 21:41:51 GMT -5
notes on Superman #45, AS IT HAPPENED! (at least as I can remember)
I liked the cover too.
I also liked the catch the next part down in the box where the barcode would take over.
40 pages and still 75 cents! Let's dig into this new age of Superman!
Hurray! We're off to Smallville! I always liked his adventures as Superboy. (I did not know, at this point, that Superboy no longer existed)
The Kents are still alive? That's nice for him.
Pete Ross! Does he still know Clark's secret identity?
Lois, your hair is fine.
Lana Lang! The gang's all here. Where's Chief Parker?
Why are there skyscrapers in Smallville? (bottom of page 9)
There's Jimmy and that's the first time I've seen his mother.
Jerry's last name didn't register for me when I first read this issue.
The band is named "Hosts of Hoggoth"? Are they hairy?
Wait, Lana knows his secret identity? And if she does, why is she stupid enough to slap him?
Editor Michael Eury laments in the letter column about how people pass over high quality tiles (like the Super titles!) to buy multiple copies speculating on hits. He still says Superman sales are "healthy."
Jimmy fill me in on what's been happening with him in this new era. I'm saddened to learn he and Superman aren't getting along these days. Superman was in space? The Guardian is still around?!? Where?
Superman's going to Hell? It looks like someone isn't making it out!
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Post by shaxper on Jul 28, 2016 21:47:46 GMT -5
Editor Michael Eury laments in the letter column about how people pass over high quality tiles (like the Super titles!) to buy multiple copies speculating on hits. He still says Superman sales are "healthy." More than "healthy", actually. According to the most recent Statement of Ownership, the Superman titles (or at least Action Comics -- I haven't seen a statement in Superman or Adventures for quite a while now) were outperforming the height of Byrne's run: Action Comics #649's statement of ownership:Average no. copies each issue during the preceding 12 months: 79,215 (note: this includes Action Comics Weekly; thus the low number) Actual no. copies of single issue published nearest to filing date: 216,875 Action Comics #587's statement of ownership (height of Byrne's run):Average no. copies each issue during the preceding 12 months: 187,509 Actual no. copies of single issue published nearest to filing date: 99,554 So Action Comics #649 outsold an issue from the prime of Byrne's run by more than 200%. And early Byrne's run was the most successful the Superman office had been in at least two decades, if I'm not mistaken. But they clearly wanted more -- they wanted to make Superman #1 again. Of course, Superman's sales won't stay high. The very trend Eury is lamenting is going to grow further and further out of control with the release of X-Force #1 and X-Men #1, as well as all that followed. I charted comic sales during this era in my Guide to Wizard: The Guide to Comics review thread, and its staggering how dramatically DC's sales plummeted as Marvel kept experimenting with how to profit from hype. In another year, Batman will pretty much be their only profitable property, and a year after that, they'll be desperate enough to kill off Superman...
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Post by Action Ace on Jul 28, 2016 22:07:26 GMT -5
I returned to DC in May 1990.
I didn't return to Marvel until April 1992.
When I made my first pull list in 1991, Comic Book Guy said, "you forgot to check off your Marvels." When I told him I didn't want any yet, he told me I was the first person in the history of his shop that had a Marvel free pull list.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 28, 2016 22:10:34 GMT -5
I returned to DC in May 1990. I didn't return to Marvel until April 1992. When I made my first pull list in 1991, Comic Book Guy said, "you forgot to check off your Marvels." When I told him I didn't want any yet, he told me I was the first person in the history of his shop that had a Marvel free pull list. I definitely got caught up in the Marvel madness and, in fact, dropped Superman in mid 1991 because I was dumb enough to believe it just wasn't as exciting as yet another X crossover. To be fair, I was 11, and I had zero sensible comic book mentors in my life. Everyone around me was just as stupid as I was.
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Post by Action Ace on Jul 28, 2016 22:16:14 GMT -5
I returned to DC in May 1990. I didn't return to Marvel until April 1992. When I made my first pull list in 1991, Comic Book Guy said, "you forgot to check off your Marvels." When I told him I didn't want any yet, he told me I was the first person in the history of his shop that had a Marvel free pull list. I definitely got caught up in the Marvel madness and, in fact, dropped Superman in mid 1991 because I was dumb enough to believe it just wasn't as exciting as yet another X crossover. To be fair, I was 11, and I had zero sensible comic book mentors in my life. Everyone around me was just as stupid as I was. NO X-MEN COMICS!!! EVER!!!!!
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Post by shaxper on Jul 28, 2016 22:17:31 GMT -5
I definitely got caught up in the Marvel madness and, in fact, dropped Superman in mid 1991 because I was dumb enough to believe it just wasn't as exciting as yet another X crossover. To be fair, I was 11, and I had zero sensible comic book mentors in my life. Everyone around me was just as stupid as I was. NO X-MEN COMICS EVER!!!!! One of these days, I'm going to go back and re-read the six hundred X-Men and X-men related comics in my collection that I generally haven't touched since I was 22. I'm very much afraid I won't enjoy them as much as I did back when I knew less.
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Jul 29, 2016 1:18:51 GMT -5
One of these days, I'm going to go back and re-read the six hundred X-Men and X-men related comics in my collection that I generally haven't touched since I was 22. I'm very much afraid I won't enjoy them as much as I did back when I knew less. I'm sure Maggot and Marrow are just as awesome now as they were then. Quite sure of it.
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Post by MDG on Jul 29, 2016 8:01:23 GMT -5
Action Comics #649's statement of ownership:Average no. copies each issue during the preceding 12 months: 79,215 (note: this includes Action Comics Weekly; thus the low number) Actual no. copies of single issue published nearest to filing date: 216,875 Action Comics #587's statement of ownership (height of Byrne's run):Average no. copies each issue during the preceding 12 months: 187,509 Actual no. copies of single issue published nearest to filing date: 99,554 Wow--weren't numbers like this unheard of within 5 years?
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